my son would like to do agility with our BC , but ....

[dali]

In our village there are several Border collie breeders, so because of that there are a lot of border collies around as well.

 

Our vet takes care of a lot of these BC so we are lucky that she has a lot of experience with this breed.

 

When we mentioned that our son would like to do agility with our dog when he's older she asked us to think about it carefully.

She says that over the years she has seen too many BC with leg problems later in life .

The jumping they do during agility is to hard on this breed as they were not breed to receive the shocks of landing on their front paws.

 

what are your experiences please ??

[MaggieDog]

BS imo - damage to legs happens with any activity over a long period of time and with dogs who are asked to do too much too soon or too fast, not because the breed "isn't bred for jumping" or some other nonsense.

 

My girl will be 9 in June and the vets have said that she has basically no signs of arthritis, even in her wrists - she jumps much more than some agility dogs might because she has a perch she sits at everyday that she jumps onto and off of frequently in addition to agility training and trials.

 

In the long run it's about knowing your dog and teaching them well. At least imo.

[dogsofmenace]

Ditto. If you ask your dog to jump too high too young, or very very frequently jump your dog really high (i'm talking jump after jump after jump for a LONG time) then there could be a problem. But normal agility practice and trialing won't hurt a dog if they've learned to jump properly. Jumping doesn't really put much stress on their front legs. If anything is really stressful on their front legs, its stopping on the down contact on an a-frame. I really don't think any breed was bred to recieve shocks on their front legs. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Is your vet sure that the leg problems are directly related to agility? My dogs have gotten more injuries from playing in the backyard then they have ever gotten from agility (that being said, they've never been injuries in agility at all!)

 

If you wait until your dog is a year to a year and a half to start jumping him, and warm him up before he does something physically demanding like agility, there shouldn't be a problem at all. If you're really concerned you can also stretch out their muscles before a run.

 

Agility is something that should just be fun for you and your dog. I think your son would really love it, as well as your BC. Of course its physically demanding, but so is chasing a ball in the backyard (my dog popped his knee out of the socket doing that D: ) and that shouldn't stop you from missing out on a really fun sport!

[vanillalove]

Any activity will wear a dog down after a while, but the consequences of not doing these activities will take a greater toll on your dog!

[dali]

Thank you for your replies.

I need to hear the voices of experiences , (including the vet) , as we are new at this.

 

Is there anyone with a "retired " dog who can share their experience.

 

I probably should be more specific : the vet said that there was permanent damage on the front joint of their front legs. Like a swelling , a bump, from the years of landing on those joints. She had to euthanise a dog because of the pain in the joints that was beyond treatment.

 

We've switched to this vet because she is so much more compassionate and has a super reputation. So I do want to take her advise on board but I don't want to worry to much either .....

[berocca]

Flipping things around slightly, its been a long day so hopefully it makes sense and you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Perhaps she sees so many BCs with front leg injuries as there are so many around doing agility? You said yourself that they are a very popular breed where you live, would make sense that the injured dog percentage would reflect this number. 3/20 injured BCs compared to 1/1 injured maltese doesn't look too bad for the BCs; saying "I treated 3 border collies this week but only one maltese" puts a different spin on things though.

 

As for them not being bred to land on their front legs- isn't that the idea of a 4 legged animal? They push off their back legs and land on their front legs. Border collies are naturally very flat jumpers compared to other breeds. By that I mean they take off from a long way out, only just clear the bar, then land a fair distance from the jump on the other side. I would imagine that style of jumping would put less pressure on their front legs than breeds which jump close and high.

 

You said that there are a number of BC breeders in the area. Are they reputable breeders? Is there a chance that joint problems are common in those particular lines?

 

I would be far more concerned about the behaviours they could pick up if not allowed to participate in sport. My dogs are great at injuring themselves by running around like idiots trying to let off steam if we haven't trained. Miss 2 nights of training and they invent their own games which unfortunately do not have a governing body enforcing safety checks.

 

As for your little one, make sure you hold off on the jumping until he is at least 12 months or you will be risking problems. Definitely give agility a go when he is old enough, your dog will love it and so will your son.

[dali]

I understand your point and you are right..if she sees a lot of BC then it would be a larger ratio.

 

The breeders in our area have a very good reputation and the only reason we did not buy there is because of the long waiting list and the price .

We don't really need a pedigree , we are happy with our BC. So we got ours from a lady who has a BC litter once or twice a year. She has 16 dogs , and works at a rescue center in her spare time.

a real dog lady ! she was really upset when our puppy had a few problems in the beginning, she checks in regularly and reads the blog.

 

I was also a bit worried when in an other conversation I read about medication for BC that do agility

[Barb Scott]

Our 14 year old BC retired from agility two years ago; he's still going strong on all 4 legs. Our 9 year old BC had TPLO surgery for her ACL (torn in an accident) and is still competitive. One of our BCs was still doing agility until he was diagnosed with cancer of the spleen at 10 years of age. My 11 year old BC was PTS because of bone cancer in his shoulder. Find a new vet!!!

Barb S

[Pat W.]

My soon to be 15 (June) bc retired from agility at 13.5, only because he couldn't handle the jump ht anymore, not because of any injury. He still hops over 12 inch bars, plays a bit of frisbee or romps with the rest of the gang. Before you get a dog for your son I would check any agility clubs in your area that might have an experienced dog that is semi retired that the owner might be willing your son to train with. The experienced dog has so much more patience with a green handler than putting a young green handler with a young green dog. My daughter started agility at age 7 with an experienced dog and is now running her second bc that she has trained for the last 2.5 years.

[Lenajo]

What kind of BCs are in your area? I am seeing that conformation (show ring) bred Border Collies are very heavily built (heavy bone, short legs) and do not jump well. It would certainly stand to reason they would have damage much earlier than a light boned, well muscled working type dog.

[dali]

What kind of BCs are in your area? I am seeing that conformation (show ring) bred Border Collies are very heavily built (heavy bone, short legs) and do not jump well. It would certainly stand to reason they would have damage much earlier than a light boned, well muscled working type dog.

I would have to check that out ...I don't know..but it's a good suggestion...

 

this is the website of one of the local breeders. I know one 100% sure that our vet takes care of these. I selected this website because it is in English. It does look like these are showdogs doesn't it.

 

So if someone would do agility with these would that be bad.

My puppy does not come from a local breeder...

[herdcentral]

There are plenty of top BCS competing past 10 years where I live. Dont start jumping any height till after 12 months old, there is plenty of flat work you can do first and will pay off later. In practice I tend to jump at lower heights and work on handling skills. My BC is 14 months and I am just starting to jump her now at low heights.

 

My ACD did more inury to herself prior to taking up agility (cruciate surgery). My sister who is a specialist surgeon who did her surgeries came to watch her when we first started agility and told me that as far as she could see there should be no problems for her and she that she is in more danger from unrestricted twisting and leaping for her ball which I no longer do with her. I warm and stretch my dogs, keep then lean and fit, do lots of swimming and dont overtrain on equipment.

 

I think dogs with straight shoulders (poor shoulder layback) and shorter upper arms result in poor angulation of the front legs and are at more risk of front leg injury so this could be worth checking on your dog. Upright shoulders tend to give the dog less ability to absorb impact, they also have less room for muscle.

[dali]

This is one of the local breeders. I picked this website because it's the only one in English

 

http://www.wendevick.net/

 

it looks like they breed showdogs..not a mention of agility..

 

my vet is also their vet.

 

We've been to the vet this morning again. Dali now has to take antibiotics because his eyes and throat still are not clear of infection.

He's very cheeky with the vet , he gives her loads of cuddles ....as if he knows .....

 

we talked to some people in the waiting room and they all said she's the best vet around, some come from a long distance after trying other vets....so I'm staying put !

[kelpiegirl]

I can agree with that in general, but I have also seen some VERY large pure working line BCs as well. Just saying that there are no absolutes.

 

What kind of BCs are in your area? I am seeing that conformation (show ring) bred Border Collies are very heavily built (heavy bone, short legs) and do not jump well. It would certainly stand to reason they would have damage much earlier than a light boned, well muscled working type dog.

[Lenajo]

I can agree with that in general, but I have also seen some VERY large pure working line BCs as well. Just saying that there are no absolutes.

 

of course it's in general. That said, the larger working dogs I've seen had functionally good conformation and did just fine at whatever their owners required.

[DTrain]

of course it's in general. That said, the larger working dogs I've seen had functionally good conformation and did just fine at whatever their owners required.

 

I think it is important to consider the type of dog you have for the work you wish to do. I have a large male BC, he is 55 pounds, very tall and very powerful. He is my trials and working dog. We never once thought of getting him into agility. He is not that body type and he comes from a long line of working dogs. I have a 40 pound male who has done some agility but I prefer him to do most of his work on the ground. He comes from a line of agility dogs but his parents had problems. He loves to jump and I let him do his thing but limit him. He is now seven and shows no signs of problems. I have a 30 pound 1 year old, he is very tall and quick. I have been training him on stock and agility ground work. In his case I may get him into agility later but I will choose carefully what he does. I am doing some ground work training with him now. He comes from a great breeder and great parents. He is off to a good start. I think you should take a look at the parents of any dog you get. This will tell you much about the future of your dog. Choose carefully what you want to do with your dog and work your dog according to his ability. Having said this any dog you choose will probably shine at something. If he wants to jump let him jump, let him work, let him wear himself out. If you know his background and choose carefully waht you do with him you will have a great happy dog and much fun.