BMXJUNKIE Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I have had Oreo about two weeks. She was my girlfriends dog that she got from a shelter and was living in a 1200 square foot apartment. She would run around the coffee table in the living room a thousand times a night and I don't think I am exhagerating. Mysti (my girlfriend) took her to the vet who suggested putting Oreo on some doggy Prozac. We could not wrap our heads around drugging poor Oreo so I suggested that Oreo come live with me and my 8 yr old weener dog. I have a good sized house and a big back yard for them to play. Oreo had not been trained at all and she is 5 years old already. She jumped on everyone when she greeted them, would not sit, and was just an all around spaz. I tried training the way I had with other dogs and got my heart broken when I saw the look on her face when I would yell at her or swat her. That lasted for one day and I began to read up on this amazingly personable dog that already showed more personality than the weener dog ever has. Thanks to this sight and others, I realized I was going about things all wrong. Thank goodness I found you guys after just one day. After twoo weeks Oreo no longer jumps on anyone and knows that she must sit in order to get petted. The stay command is proving to be a little more difficult. Oreo has already attached herself to me which threw my girlfriend for a loop the first time she came to visit. Even with her there, Oreo will go to her to get some love and then come right back and sit at my feet. I LOVE THIS DOG!! On our nightly walks she has encountered horses and cattle fot the first time and even attempted to herd some rabbits we ran accross. I am looking at setting up some jumps in the back yard to start over and under commands when she gets the basics down. Any advice would be appreciated. I did not know what I was getting into but I am up for the challenge and looking forward to many years with my Oreo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Congrats on the strides it sounds like you made with Oreo. Mental exercise is more important for a Border Collie than physical. They are much happier to be using those great little minds they have. Sounds like you two are heading in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Welcome! Sounds like Oreo really lucked out in finding you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetJordan Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 With the right owner BCs are a ton of fun, and it sounds like Oreo found a good home. Congrats! I've said this elsewhere as I find it to be a very funny and cute friendship(but you probably haven't read it elsewhere) my BC is BFF w/ my mom's weener dog who I take care of during the weekdays. I spend a lot of time watching them play and laughing. Anyway, may you and Oreo have many wonderful years together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Oreo has already attached herself to me which threw my girlfriend for a loop the first time she came to visit. That's a sign that she thinks she has (finally) found someone she respects as her leader. She desperately needs to do things with you; especially things that challenge her. Keep her busy. BCs have lots of personality (aka quirks). They can also be quite strong willed; you will need to be firm, but gentle with her. I LOVE THIS DOG!! BCs are very addictive. Senneca has charmed her way into the heart of my wife (who was not a dog person and was frightened of her when I brought her home), our youngest daughter (who thought dogs were dirty) and our son-in-law who was was scared to come and visit us because he didn't like dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Any advice would be appreciated. I did not know what I was getting into but I am up for the challenge and looking forward to many years with my Oreo. Sounds like you are already on your way to meeting the challenge of being a Border Collie owner. Thanks for taking this girl and being so open to changing how you interact with and train her. Keep reading the threads on this site and do searches to see what has been said in the past. There is a lot of wisdom and experience here. Border Collies are more work than the average dog but they give so much back in return. Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMXJUNKIE Posted December 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Thanks for the comments and advice. I picked up a book by Jon Katz on dog training. I grabbed it becase it shows him on the front cover with two BC's and a lab. Upon further inspection, I read that these dogs were his and at a glance his approach seemed very laid back and positive. Have any of y'all heard of him or know anything about his methods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 In my opinion, you'd do a lot better to read anything by Patricia McConnell, particularly The Other End of the Leash. Available here or here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 uuuhh lol Jon Katz is pretty well hated in the BC world! do a board seach on him, their will be plenty read up on as to why. I agree with Laura, you would be much better off with Patricia McConnell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I picked up a book by Jon Katz on dog training I do believe that the work Katz is a four letter word around here, and not many hold him in high esteem. I agree. Good luck with your new friend. BC's really are a wonderment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruger's Dad Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I always direct people to youtube.com. Just do a search on border collies. You will come up with tons of videos. Some have training help and others just watch and learn for yourself. Your mind is the limiting factor of what your dog can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueborders Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Welcome and I just PMed you with some suggestions on positive clicker and agility training not too far from you. Good luck and many happy years with Oreo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackieandryan Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 We are in Denton and Lewisville. Denton has a great dog park. If you don't know where it is, let me know and I'll give you directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoBC Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Welcome. I am so glad that you didn't let them put her on meds for being a BC. What kind of vet would want to do that? BC's are so cool. If you train them right they can be the worlds greatest dogs. I agree. I wouldn't say the *cough*Katz*cough* word anymore. It's kind of a bad topic. Patricia McConnell is a much better dog person. I love her books. I just wish I could find more of them around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I did not know what I was getting into... Welcome to the world of first-time Border Collie owners!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMXJUNKIE Posted December 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Thanks again. I have put down the katz book and will hunt for "The End of the Leash". A friend gave me the "Cesar's Way" book. I did a board search on him as well. Seems as though most who have tried his methods like them and a few who think he is cruel. I haven't seen anything that looks cruel yet. If any of you have read this book let me know if there are some tips in the book to be avoided with a BC. I do like the idea of not having to have treats 24-7 to keep Oreo in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickerKitten Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 A friend gave me the "Cesar's Way" book. I did a board search on him as well. Seems as though most who have tried his methods like them and a few who think he is cruel. I haven't seen anything that looks cruel yet. If any of you have read this book let me know if there are some tips in the book to be avoided with a BC. I do like the idea of not having to have treats 24-7 to keep Oreo in line. As with anything, read, absorb, take what works and/or feels right and discard the rest. Personally, with *my* border collie (they are all SOOOOO different I wouldn't expect what works with one to work with another) an overabundance of affection does not disrupt his behavior and willingness to work hard for me. However, "the walk" works wonderfully to get him into a very receptive state of mind and I do find that after I walk him "Cesar's way" he does learn new tricks easier and settles down quite a bit. I do use his way to deal with stray dogs that are coming towards us and that I don't know if they are friendly or territorial to keep them away from my dog. Basically the one "thing" that works best in training my bc is to clearly show him what I want him to do and then praise him. A quick "zzzt" or "phooey" or "ICK" or some other noise done with a deep voice clearly lets him know that I am disappointed in something he's doing. He will usually come to me in a heel position or drop to the ground if he's unsure what he's doing wrong or will do what I asked him to if he was ignoring me. The funniest thing is that he pays SOOOO much attention to what I am doing that if I tell my kids to sit down or come here my poor Stormy does it faster. Same thing with when I say "No!" to one of the kids, poor Stormy thinks I'm talking to him! Keep up the open mind and willingness to work with Oreo. I never imagined that there would be a dog I'd be more attached to than the ones that I grew up with, but now that I have my border collie I don't think I'll ever be without one again. Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Thanks again. I have put down the katz book and will hunt for "The End of the Leash". A friend gave me the "Cesar's Way" book. I did a board search on him as well. Seems as though most who have tried his methods like them and a few who think he is cruel. I haven't seen anything that looks cruel yet. If any of you have read this book let me know if there are some tips in the book to be avoided with a BC. I do like the idea of not having to have treats 24-7 to keep Oreo in line. BMXJUNKIE, You can train using positive methods and not have to use treats 24-7 to do it. I have 9 border collies and I don't use clickers, treats, or any of that stuff for training. Common sense handling goes a long way. Border collies can be more sensitive than other breeds, which is why some of the "over the top" stuff some trainers (including Cesar) do is not appropriate (in general) for border collies. If you are consistent and clear in your expectations, your dog will pick up on what you want very quickly and with a happy result. Remember that Cesar works largely with dogs with issues, and those issues are largely brought on by humans who have no clue about normal dog behavior or how to interact with or train a dog. Oreo does not sound like such a "special needs" dog and so probably doesn't need specialized training a la Cesar either. Mental stimulation is very important with dogs this intelligent. That can mean trick training, hide-and-seek type games, obedience, and the like. I don't believe in the "you must physically tire them out" aspect of Cesar's training methods. I understand he's working with people who in general are completly clueless about dogs, and that physically tiring a dog can make them more manageable for the average human, BUT it's mighty hard to physically tire out a border collie, so it's better to work on the mental side of things (while of course letting your dog get plenty of exercise too). I can work a dog on stock for five-ten minutes and if the work was mentally challenging, the dog will be tired, and not in the way that an hour of running might do. (I'm not suggesting you have to have livestock to work your dog on, just using that as an illustration of how intense mental work can be much more tiring than just plain physical work.) And I certainly don't run the legs off my pack in order to keep them in line. They may get two good long walks a day, and yet they are still trainable and easy enough to live with in the house. Do stay away from Jon Katz. He is a self-declared expert and is accepted as such simply because he wrote some bestselling books detailing many of the idiotic things he did with his own dogs. No need to take any lessons from him--it would likely do more harm than good. It's a case of "don't try this at home" unless you want to signficantly increase your chances of ruining your dog. The folks on this forum are an excellent resource for training tips and the like. As someone else said, you can take what you can use or that you think will work for you and ignore the rest. Kudos to you for taking Oreo on and recognizing that drugs aren't the answer and that you need to individualize your training methods for the particular dog at hand. And I second all suggestions to get books by Patricia McConnell (she's a certified behaviorist and so her approach to training makes sense from a dog's behavioral standpoint, which is why I like her so much). And Welcome! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickim Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Also, watch your dog for reactions. I have found that my Whisper is especially sensitive to sounds--I cannot ever raise my voice around her because she becomes very apprehensive and cowers (I know nothing of her history before she came to me). I save bellowing for dire emergencies, like stop now or that truck is going to run you over. This past weekend DH and his sons were argueing and she crammed herself between the wall and the chair I was sitting in at the computer. I also noticed she can read my facial expressions. This morning she was, shall we say, passing very fragrant air. I made a face and she instantly went into cower mode. I had to reassure that she was not in any trouble and she was still loved. Take your time, listen to your dog and don't be afraid to ask questions from those that have experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Scott Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Throw away the Jon Katz book! Barb S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetJordan Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 There is one thing that I've found true that Cesar says, which is that some high energy dogs find walking to be too boring, so don't fight nature and to take them running instead. Riley does know how to heel but she just hates walking and it doesn't seem to do much for her. But she loves to run. Since I'm not a runner and really don't like it I bike her(which is what she prefers I'm sure as she can go all out, no human being could keep up w/ her). At first we would roller blade, but it took her much longer to tire out and at the risk of me falling over she couldn't go all out. I had the bike attachment already, but she wouldn't use it when I first adopted her. I tried again about a month later and she just took off. I think she had to learn to trust me first. Just thought I would share if you find Oreo to be more of a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatchp Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 One other book suggestion: "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor is a great introduction to positive reinforcement training techniques...widely applicable and respected. Pryor's book and subsequent following helped birth the clicker training movement. Helped me understand my dog better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickerKitten Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 :::::: laughing about a human trying to keep up with a border collie:::::::: That was exactly what my daughter was trying to do at the dog park the other day. Hee hee hee... better her than meeeee!! Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 ...some high energy dogs find walking to be too boring Pace is important, but there are a lots of ways to make walks more fun. Senneca enjoys walking with me because I walk fast enough for her to get into a trot. She was frustrated walking with my wife who walks much slower. The answer was to break out into bursts of running. She urges Senneca on with "run, run run" and they run a little bit and go back to walking. Senneca thinks this is fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Georgia would happily walk nicely on a leash at any pace. She was never really much of a tugger. She was more about wanting to stop and sniff every blade of grass. (Her nickname is Molasses. She has two speeds...SLOW and the speed of light.) But Texi walks SO fast! Always has a destination in mind and MUST GET THERE NOW!! Even if he just walking in the yard or walking through the house. He needs a good run before walking anywhere. I am a fairly quick walker so I see no need to increase my (or Georgia’s) pace just to make the boy happy. He’s already getting that “I’m a boy and I know everything” attitude. That’s just cropped up in the past month or so. Hopefully that will be snipped off along with his ‘nutty buddies’ next week. Merry Christmas Tex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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