Barking for attention

[OffTopic]

Eventually I'll be able to start offering advice instead of always asking for it, but now is not that time!

 

Finn is doing really well with obedience. We have no problem getting him to learn something to do (ie: sit, stay, etc). But how do you teach a dog to NOT do something, especially when he's doing it to get attention.

Bark, bark, bark, bark.

I realize a tired dog is a good dog, but there are going to be times when I can't stop everything and play right that very red hot second. So I need to teach Finn "No bark" or "shush" or "quiet" or something that will keep him from shattering my eardrums while I work.

 

And since he's barking to get attention, any kind of attention (even negative) pretty much gives him what he wants and encourages more barking, right? Wrong?

I've tried gently holding his muzzle and saying "No bark" (he gets "No bite" when we're playing, so I thought that would click with him since it's similar), but as soon as I turn back to my work, he starts barking again.

I've tried looking at him and deliberately turning my back to him until he calms down, but I don't have 8 hours to stand around waiting for a BC to give up on something.

 

I know it's not that he needs to go out, because that's the first thing I do when he barks....take him outside.

I know it's not that he's hungry, because I feed him while I'm making my coffee.

Mike walks him in the morning before he goes to work and this usually means Finn will sleep until noon. But not today!

He wants attention. And most of the time I'll be happy to give it to him, but I need to find a way to train him to wait without barking constantly.

 

He isn't much into chew toys unless I'm actively playing with him, so I can't just toss him a toy and expect him to sit quietly with it.

 

Help??!!!

[phej]

Hi Tricia,

 

I should also be asking for advice rather than giving it, but here is my thought for whatever its worth... I have an 8 month old mix, and while she usually settles down really nicely when inside, she does have these manic "I have too much energy, do something about it, bark, bark, bark..." episodes. I don't always give in, but if I feel that she really needs something to do, I practice few commands with her until she settles down and then give her a merrow bone to munch on. They have been a lifesaver for us because they keep her busy for hours... and I can happily work on my dissertation.:-) Sturdy nylabones (she likes the Galileo ones) have worked for us too, but they may not for you, if Finn is not a chewer. Not sure if this is helpful - some of the experienced bc people may have a better advice.

 

Petra

[Maralynn]

Two words - Frozen Kong! Get a kong toy and stuff it with canned dog food or moistened kibble or peanut butter. Stick it in the freezer for a few hours and then give it to Finn to keep him occupied for a while.

 

Another thing that works well for my two super chewers is beef ribs. I got a section of ribs the other day at wal-mart and cut them into individual rib pieces. They provide well over an hour of chewing pleasure for my dogs. You just have to keep an eye out and take it away if it gets to be too small of a piece.

[bexie]

I know what you need to do.. or can try to do.. but it is really really hard. We have a problem with Molly whining for attention sometimes.

 

Get yourself some earplugs or a really really strong will power.

 

Ignore his barking.

 

When he is quiet, give him lots and lots of attention.

 

Repeat until he learns to settle down and relax.

 

This works for us--except my husband isn't very good at it and tends to tell her to be quiet. So when he is home, she'll get whining fits. When he is out, it is nice and quiet and she lies down and does her own thing and I make sure to take lots of breaks for Molly time even if I'm sick.

[mbc1963]

Barking is a tough one! When my dog came home, he was so reactive that he barked at EVERY noise, inside or outside my house. Oy! Weekdays during "Oprah" time (4 -6 p.m.) were the worst - I'm not sure why!

 

I tried hard to follow a protocol I had read in a book - not sure if it was McConnell or Clothier or someone else. Basically, keep treats, and when it was a barky time, say, "ENOUGH," and then treat when the dog got quiet. I never pushed it till it works 100%, but it did teach Buddy what "enough" means, and he does understand what I want from him when I say it. (He still reacts - though much less - to some noise.) I think if I had been 100% on top of things, I could have made this work even better. As it stands, it's fine, but not perfect. This is a different kind of barking from yours, but it might be worth a try.

 

Mary

[MaryP]

I realize a tired dog is a good dog, but there are going to be times when I can't stop everything and play right that very red hot second.

 

I take it from this statement, though, that you have given into his barking and played with him on more than one occasion. Once is all they need to realize that persistence pays off. Believe me, I know because I have a dog that demand barks. He has gotten sooo much better, though, but will still try it occasionally when he's not getting his way. The best thing that you can do is tell him to be quiet, or whatever command you use. If he's quiet, fine, praise him for being quiet. But, in all likelihood, he's not going to be quiet (at least not at first) because this has now become a rewarding behavior for him. When he barks again after you have told him to be quiet, calmly take him by the collar, lead him into another room, put him in a crate, and leave him there for 15 minutes. If he barks while in the crate, cover the crate. If he barks while in the covered crate, get some earplugs and ride it out. Once he's quiet for 15 minutes in the crate, go in and praise him and let him out. Spend a few minutes playing with him.

 

The only thing that worked for me to get my demand barker to stop barking was to crate him in a different room. Essentially, I removed the object of his desire (my attention) by denying his access to me. Now he knows that if I tell him to be quiet, he'd better shut up or he will not be allowed to be in the room with us. Occasionally, I still have to reinforce this by crating him, but I only need to crate him for a few minutes before he gets the idea.

 

Now, demand barking is completely different from alarm barking (e.g., someone knocking at the door). For alarm barking, I would try to recondition his response by training a different, less annoying reaction.

[sweet_ceana]

This works for us--except my husband isn't very good at it and tends to tell her to be quiet. So when he is home, she'll get whining fits. When he is out, it is nice and quiet and she lies down and does her own thing and I make sure to take lots of breaks for Molly time even if I'm sick.

 

We have the same problem LOL. Ceana knows that mom will ignore her for forever if she has to... Dad will cave, you can wake him up and make him play if you whine enough.... grrrr

[OffTopic]

Thanks for the input!

 

Since he's still adjusting (we've had him about 2 weeks now) and we're still adjusting to him, I probably have been a little too attentive when he barks. We're still trying to figure out his "signals".

 

I did go get some peanut butter flavored booda bones (he doesn't seem to care for the kong....even stuffed) and he and our keeshond spent the afternoon gnawing away happily.

 

I'm all for crate training but I'm not sure that would work in our household. We have a cat that loves to play with dogs and I'm afraid that Gonzo would tease Finn through the crate. Let me rephrase that. I know Gonzo would tease Finn through the crate. And he's a smart little kittymonster.....think BC in cat form (he's even the classic black & white).

If I covered the crate with a blanket, he'd just pull the blanket off or get under it. Finn likes the cat and they're playing together nicely, but I'm not sure he'd react well to getting poked at relentlessly without being able to get away.

 

I dunno, maybe he was just restless yesterday. He's sleeping soundly at my feet right now.

[Meg's mum]

Meg is always on a long line unless we are in a play/work session with her. She is reluctant to come home, and if we go in without her she will bark. Clearly I have no business giving anyone advice. However, inside the house, we have cured her 'Oh my God the night of the Bears is upon us and you're just sitting there!" bark. We use 'No' and 'Good Girl' by default as the only correction and reward she has ever responded to. So, replace them with what you use, clicker or treat or glint of eye. When she barks more than twice at me, or half a dozen times at something outside, she gets a No at the next bark, and the second she is quiet between breaths she gets Good Girl, SHHHHHHH. Its goes on like that over and over. It took a while, but SHHHHHH has become a command that I can even use pre-emptively along with phrases like "Its just Daddy".

 

With whinning, we used the same technique with 'Settle down' but that gets a hand signal for 'Down' with it. She is at my feet on her blanket curled up right now as I type. A half a year ago, she would have been whinning at me from the other side of the desk.

[Lunar]

Zeeke is both a huge attention barker and alarm barker. (Basically, he barks 99% of the time - or used to.) The alarm barking I haven't been able to do anything about, though we're trying to consistently re-direct him.

 

The attention barking... OMG that was the worst. And I honest to god had to do what Bexie said - I crated him in another room, and then ignored him. And yes, those first days, he WOULD bark for 3 hours non-stop during the day. It. Was. Crazy. I don't think I had a lot of sanity left by the end of the week, I would call my husband literally crying (who was at work).

 

And SOMEHOW - I can't even really define how or why - he did finally get it. Now if he starts attention barking he goes in his crate, and very very quickly (usually right away) goes quiet. (Until he hears something outside and alarm barks - but like I said, that's another whole issue.) It took a lot of persistence, but he DID learn that crate = quiet time. Sometimes we don't even have to crate him, just put him in a down for a few minutes when he's being pushy and demanding.

 

Of course we know by now when his barking isn't "normal" - he does sometimes get sick and frantically barks and barks and barks until we figure it out and rush him outside. We forgive him for that one!

 

So... good luck, and do NOT give in when he's being pushy, it'll just set you up for worse behaviors down the road.

[OffTopic]

Of course we know by now when his barking isn't "normal" - he does sometimes get sick and frantically barks and barks and barks until we figure it out and rush him outside. We forgive him for that one!

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if that wasn't the problem with Finn. The 2 times he did what I assumed was attention barking, he did end up having diarrhea (not full blown, just soft) later that day.

He seems to be a particular pooper and won't just go. It has to be just the right place and just the right time and just the right conditions....so when I let him out the other day and he didn't go within a few minutes, I assumed he didn't need to.

But apparently he needs time to figure out a "poop plan" and get in a good wind sprint before executing the deed.

 

Like I mentioned, we're still trying to figure out his signals, so maybe that's his way of telling us his tummy wasn't happy.

We have an appointment with our vet next Friday to have him looked over and microchipped, so I'll mention it to her. The first time was 3 days after we got him, so I put it down to stress and change in diet. This last time was the day after I started adding milled flax to his diet....maybe I should have added it more gradually.

[flrpwr52]

I have to agree with MaryP, crate training worked for me. When Kya wanted my attention or one of the other dogs attention she would bark non stop. I don't handle barking for no reason well and she went in the crate.

 

Now she has started nudging me or the other dogs to get our attention. I took my cue from the dogs and when she nudges me I get up and move away just as they do. This is working very well.

 

To keep the cat away from the dog in the crate couldn't you close a door?

[MaryP]

I'm all for crate training but I'm not sure that would work in our household. We have a cat that loves to play with dogs and I'm afraid that Gonzo would tease Finn through the crate. Let me rephrase that. I know Gonzo would tease Finn through the crate. And he's a smart little kittymonster.....think BC in cat form (he's even the classic black & white).

If I covered the crate with a blanket, he'd just pull the blanket off or get under it. Finn likes the cat and they're playing together nicely, but I'm not sure he'd react well to getting poked at relentlessly without being able to get away.

 

When I said to crate him in another room, I meant that you should move him to another room (like a bedroom), put him in a crate, and shut the door. The cat shouldn't be able to get to him then. In fact, the idea behind this is that you remove all stimulation from him by physically moving him to another room and leaving him there. He doesn't get any attention from you, other dogs, cats, etc. Dogs hate, especially demand barkers, hate not being allowed to know and see everything that is going on. He will soon learn that demand barking will only be rewarded with a little solitary confinement. You'll be surprised how quickly he'll learn that it's not worth it and will stop barking when you tell him to.

[OffTopic]

To keep the cat away from the dog in the crate couldn't you close a door?

When I said to crate him in another room, I meant that you should move him to another room (like a bedroom), put him in a crate, and shut the door.

 

Unfortunately, I am in a 1200 square foot house. I work from home as a photograhper and what was my dining room is now my studio, so that's one room down.

I can't put a crate in the living room because it's a "public" area. Plus there's no door from the living room to the dining room to the kitchen.

The bedroom is too small....we barely have room to walk around the bed, the 2nd bedroom is now the den/computer room/library and is too small. Plus, that's where I work on the pictures on the computer so crating him in the same room I'm in wouldn't work.

That leaves the laundry room/pantry off the kitchen, which is big enough to put a crate.....but there's no door between it and the kitchen (and there's no door between the kitchen and the dining room/studio and the living room).

So, nope. There isn't a place I can put a crate and close it away from the cat.

[MaryP]

If your bedroom is too small to put a crate in, but is the only room with a door. Then, I would just shut the dog in the bedroom by himself when he demand barks. You could also shut him in a bathroom. The effect is the same. When he demand barks, he loses the privilege of interacting with the other inhabitants of the home.

[Anda]

Yup, shut him in a room or bathroom for a few minutes, until he calms down. That's what I had to start doing every other morning when Ouzo gets the zoomies BIG TIME while I'm late for work and my downstairs neighbours probably are still sleeping. Couple of days ago he had so much momentum running between the bedroom and livingroom that he pushed the king size matress almost off the bed and into the wall - after he'd already shifted everything else on the bed. Even a couple of minutes away from me get his eyes to pop out wondering "WHY? BUT OHHH, WHY ME?!" and when I let him out he is all sweet and heeling and willing to work on a few comands to get some treats, then he's good to lay down somewhere and be quiet till I return home.

[OffTopic]

Ok, I'll try shutting him in the bedroom or bathroom if this continues to be a problem. That does sound like the best way to handle it, but I hadn't thought to shut him up "loose". I guess I can take a risk with the bedspread. It's replaceable if he destroys it.

I am going to give it a little time and make sure it's not a desperate plea to go outside, like I mentioned in a previous post, because I don't want to "punish" a dog for trying to tell me he needs to go out. He's beautifully house trained right now and I don't want to jeopardize that!!

 

Thanks again for all the input.

[bexie]

Ok, I'll try shutting him in the bedroom or bathroom if this continues to be a problem. That does sound like the best way to handle it, but I hadn't thought to shut him up "loose". I guess I can take a risk with the bedspread. It's replaceable if he destroys it.

I am going to give it a little time and make sure it's not a desperate plea to go outside, like I mentioned in a previous post, because I don't want to "punish" a dog for trying to tell me he needs to go out. He's beautifully house trained right now and I don't want to jeopardize that!!

 

Thanks again for all the input.

 

That's easy. Take him out for a potty. Do not play with him or let him explore or go for a long walk. If he potties, praise him. If he does not, ignore him. When you come in, ignore him. No attention. If he barks again, straight into the bedroom or bathroom. Assume it is attention barking for an appropriate amount of time depending on his age before trying another potty.

[SpencerandTrixie]

Our Spencer dog does the same thing. We took the opportunity to teach him to "speak on command. Now when he starts barking for attention we give him the speak command and it frustrates him that we turned it into a trick. Eventually he goes and lies down once he realizes that's all he's going to get!

[Gemmy4ever]

I understand your situation right now. My dog used to do that a LITTLE bit. But now, she NEVER does it. When your dog barks, say a firm "NO!". Sound angry, but don't sound to angry. If he\she continues to bark ou should ignore him\her (by ignore, i mean leave the room) and when he stops barking you comein and praise him.

[painted_ponies]

Very good advice. But if it doesn't work out for you, I have a failsafe plan.

 

Get another BC.

 

They will entertain each other. Not quietly, it is true. But at least they won't constantly seek to involve you in their maniacal-ness. Frequently, perhaps, but not constantly.

[OffTopic]

Get another BC.

Hah!

Well....someday.

 

Actually, I started this thread back in October when we'd just gotten Finn. Now that we've been working with him for a few months I'm happy to report that he is an awesome little guy.

Seriously, he's a good pup. Happy, cuddly, playful and (mostly) obedient. And he's just so cute.

There are still a few areas that need work, but it's clearly just puppy enthusiasm. I really think once he's a little older (he's 1-ish) he's going to be a great dog. We're very happy with our little rescue boy.

[painted_ponies]

I really think once he's a little older (he's 1-ish) he's going to be a great dog. We're very happy with our little rescue boy.

 

It is amazing how much easier they become as they get older, isn't it. There was a time, when Faith was around six months old or so, that I really wondered what I'd gotten myself into. I think it was Shetlander who once likened sharing a home with an adolescent BC to living with a coyote.

 

In fact, Faith got squirted in the face her first day of obedience class for attention-barking while the instructor was talking. By the second or third week, I was seriously considering wearing a wet suit to class.

 

But once she turned about a year old I started to notice great improvement in her self-control. I wouldn't have liked to try raising her without Violet, my five year old, BC, though. Violet definitely took the brunt of puppy teeth and puppy playfulness, bless her.