Bo Peep Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Before border collies were eligible for AKC events, you could ILP them without having them spayed or neutered. I lived in Portland, OR. and enjoyed doing a variety of things with my dogs. DO NOT GET ME WRONG- I do not want border collies AKC registered. I LOVE the working breed. Here in Boise, there are limited activities you can do with your dog besides herding. I happen to love obedience. Rally is looking pretty good and also agility I have done with one dog and I think Usher would be good at it. He's so fast. I went to the AKC show to get a few names for agility - mostly ILP'd dogs and trainers in my area. Lots of rescues. It was great. I do NOT want to support the AKC, BUT I want to have fun and my little area doesn't really have that many trials that aren't AKC orientated. OR....I'm not finding them. So, If anyone could give me any information on ANY agility or obedience shows in my area without me having to get an ILP # I would greatly appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoobiesMom Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I say go and have fun if you can't find non-AKC events in your area. You're not showing conformation or anything, you're supporting the inclusion of all dogs in sports competitions. I don't see anything wrong with that. Have you tried googling rally + your area or agility + your area? I'll bet alot of training schools, doggy day care, kennels, and groomers may have the inside track on that kind of stuff. They're usually doing doggie stuff after hours too. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I don't know my way around the area, but NADAC has a some trials down there - looks like there is a club that hosts trials in Caldwell. I don't know about USDAA or CPE though.... You can check the APDT and AMBOR for obedience, I don't know if they will have events near you or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepandakom Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 You can compete in UKC events, too. I am not sure what the process is, but I know you have to get a UKC number. Even mixed breeds can compete in UKC performance events. There are a few clubs here in VA that hold UKC agility and obedience trials. The website is UKC Dogs . They have event listings, but unfortunately they are by month and not state. I have never competed in UKC events, but I know people who have and they seem to enjoy them. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I also enjoy watching some AKC-sponsored events, such as agility. The philosophy of this board deals with registration with AKC and the dilution of the breed by breeding for conformance; but I know of no one on this board who has ever begrudged another for watching the breed we love in competitions other than those sponsored by USBCC (or corresponding organizations). So enjoy to your heart's content, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility IGs Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 There seems to be a couple of CPE events in OR coming up http://www.k9cpe.com/events.htm as well as NADAC http://www.nadac.com/afrm/trial-calendar.asp. Those are both really fun venues for agility and similar in style as far as there are lots of games which are fun for dog and handler and you can train in the ring. I have never done UKC, but know of people who have and said it is fun. CPE and NADAC are great organizations! You can probably find a club near you on their website, or go and check out a trial. Watch people run and when you find you like the way someone runs, treats their dogs etc, ask them who they train with. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 The philosophy of this board deals with registration with AKC and the dilution of the breed by breeding for conformance; but I know of no one on this board who has ever begrudged another for watching the breed we love in competitions other than those sponsored by USBCC (or corresponding organizations). Well, there is the sentiment that registering with the AKC and participating in their events supports an organization that is doing harm to Border Collies. On the other hand, the AKC claims that they lose money on agility (not sure if they say the same thing with obedience). So I guess the argument could be made that competing in their agility hits the AKC financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Well, there is the sentiment that registering with the AKC and participating in their events supports an organization that is doing harm to Border Collies. That's the way I look at it. I'm just not willing to give them my hard earned money to do what they're doing to the border collie (and many other breeds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Well, there is the sentiment that registering with the AKC and participating in their events supports an organization that is doing harm to Border Collies. Liz, whereas you quoted my post in your response, perhaps I should clarify. I would never advocate purchasing a Border Collie from an AKC-registered breeder, or registering a BC with AKC. My only reference was to observing AKC-sponsored non-conformance-related competitions. If I had to pay to watch such an AKC competiton, I would probably feel the same way that you and Laura do; but if it is free, I don't have a problem with just watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I would never advocate purchasing a Border Collie from an AKC-registered breeder, or registering a BC with AKC. My only reference was to observing AKC-sponsored non-conformance-related competitions. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was thinking the question was about participating in AKC events, for which the dog obviously needs to be registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Sorry for the misunderstanding. No problem. As we referees are fond of (jokingly) saying, "no blood, no foul..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 So, If anyone could give me any information on ANY agility or obedience shows in my area without me having to get an ILP # I would greatly appreciate it. Looks like there's a NADAC trial in a few weeks: http://www.boiseagility.org/events.html Obedience is trickier. I did ASCA obedience with Bear - think there was one ASCA trial a year, back when we competed. If you like competition obedience, there aren't many choices outside of the kennel club, it seems. Luckily, I don't like competition obedience so I lost no sleep over whether I should show in AKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I don't really see how competing in AKC agility and obedience with a spayed or neutered rescue dog is going to hurt anything or anyone. The problems many of us have with AKC, have to do with the show ring, the substandard herding based on "titles", and the support of puppy mills though the registration of substandard, mass bred, dogs on the basis of being "purebred". There are non-AKC options, USDAA/NADAC/APDT/AMBOR/ASCA, for sport if you want them. UKC has the same problems as AKC in supporting mills and conformation titles. You have to do what's right for you. If you choose AKC for sport competition, you have a real position to show the value of an ILP dog. There is a lot of good in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I've been wondering about this issue for a while and was curious to see how folks weighed in on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I have a different take on it. Yes, you can ILP a dog from another registry (or a rescue), but aren't you at least tacitly supporting the sanctioning body, and all of its tenets and beliefs? Just because the AKC doesn't make a ton of $$ on performance events doesn't mean that they don't reap huge rewards in terms of publicity. When Animal Planet runs the agility nationals, the AKC controls the message through the script, through the advertising, etc. To the viewer who is watching these dogs fly around, they are exposed to these messages that "reinforces AKC as the resource for all things dog, including helping people find the right puppy for them." Check out their latest advertising efforts: http://www.akc.org/press_center/advertising.cfm New York, NY - The 2007 American Kennel Club national advertising campaign promotes AKC as "the only registry in the USA that matters.” There will be six full-page, color ad insertions in USA Weekend, a Sunday magazine that reaches over 23 million readers. These ads target the puppy-shopping consumer with messaging that reinforces AKC as the resource for all things dog, including helping people find the right puppy for them. To me, it's a slippery slope. Sure, you're not showing a dog, nor are you buying an AKC-registered pup, but you are participating in their event and therefore you are supporting them with your entry fees and your presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I personally agree with airbear. I would not ILP a dog with AKC or enter an AKC event, even if AKC were the only organization with competitive herding trials, because I do not wish to support them in any way. I do think that getting an ILP on a dog and competing with that dog in AKC events is not nearly as bad as outright registering a border collie with the AKC, but I personally would find some other way to do the activities I wanted to do with my dog, even if it meant forming a local obedience and/or agility club (either affiliated with a different national organization or not) and competing there. After all, agility, rally and flyball all got their start by people doing something very much like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted October 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 You are probably right on that one Eileen. When I had my old dogs ILP'd, Border Collies and even Aussie's- showing my age here, were in the miscellaneous category. So, I really didn't have a problem with it. Now with the controversy, I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by the breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 An interesting side bar- the Aussie, the BC, and the Kelpie, all were dealt the akc death knell, and each group handled it differently, well maybe not handled, but the results were different. It appears the Aussie folks ended up embracing the AKC, The BC folks became split, and the Kelpie succesfully fought off the AKC onslaught. It is easy, just live your life like AKC doesn't exist, and find other groups to work with. You are probably right on that one Eileen. When I had my old dogs ILP'd, Border Collies and even Aussie's- showing my age here, were in the miscellaneous category. So, I really didn't have a problem with it. Now with the controversy, I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by the breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyzookie Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I personally agree with airbear. I would not ILP a dog with AKC or enter an AKC event, even if AKC were the only organization with competitive herding trials, because I do not wish to support them in any way. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsy84 Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 An interesting side bar- the Aussie, the BC, and the Kelpie, all were dealt the akc death knell, and each group handled it differently, well maybe not handled, but the results were different. It appears the Aussie folks ended up embracing the AKC, The BC folks became split, and the Kelpie succesfully fought off the AKC onslaught. This is slightly off-topic... But what about Cattle Dogs? I don't really have much knowledge of them but have always liked them and recently joined a ACD forum similar to this one. It is definitely AKC oriented and I don't think I'll be visiting it much. But in regards to the breed overall, is there such a definite split like the BC? Or did they suffer the same fate as Aussies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility IGs Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 From my understanding ASCA sanctioned conformation trials existed many years before the Australian Shepherd was an official AKC breed. And ASCA is the official breed club of the Australian Shepherd. Their breed desciption on their website says it is effective 1977 and it appears the Aussie became an AKC breed in 1991. I haven't taken the time to check the two breed descriptions against each other, but I would be curious to see what AKC has changed about the breed standard from the original standard adopted by fanciers in 1977. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 . . . even if it meant forming a local obedience and/or agility club (either affiliated with a different national organization or not) and competing there. After all, agility, rally and flyball all got their start by people doing something very much like that. And, if you get a group together, get some local interest going, raise some money, and rent a space, your group could host APDT Rally trials or CPE Agility trials, or, I would imagine NADAC or whatever. It seems to me like a lot of the judges will travel to venues all over the country if a club hires them to do so. I'm not sure if you could get a judge to do St. Hubert's Obedience out there, but it seems like it could be made to happen. It seems like around here a lot of those types of things are getting very popular and when those trials start getting filled, there is a demand for more and more . . . All of that started with somebody taking the first step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clara Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Do you go to a trainer with a group of other people? That's how our group started, and we formed our own club (our trainer is our "leader" but we'll have elections if anyone ever decides it's necessary). Now we host two CPE trials a year and have made enough money from them to improve our equipment and our ability to grow as a group. It's only taken two years to really get things rolling! It IS a long drive from Boise over to the Oregon trials, I really understand your desire to participate in local trials. I'd hate to give AKC any money for anything either, but I'd understand if you did it so you had a place to compete. I don't think you'd get voted off the island! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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