Feeding Evo

[bc4pack]

I've heard a lot of folks mention trying Evo and dogs having bouts of

diarrhea...

 

Has anyone NOT had problems? Dogs getting along well on it?

[Liz P]

I've heard a lot of folks mention trying Evo and dogs having bouts of

diarrhea...

 

Has anyone NOT had problems? Dogs getting along well on it?

 

Read the post on dog food storage. Evo spoils FAST because it is all natural and high in protein and fat. If properly stored very few dogs get sick from it.

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=14125

[PSmitty]

I've heard a lot of folks mention trying Evo and dogs having bouts of

diarrhea...

 

Has anyone NOT had problems? Dogs getting along well on it?

 

Me, me! *raises hand* All three of mine are on it and doing well, for over a year, at least. Lilly, the oldest, was on it for a while, then I switched Jack when he was about 9 months old. Alex, my puppy, was put on it at about 6-7 months old. No problems, any of them. I like their body conditions and coats.

 

The only warning I know of, is it's not recommended for growing puppies. I made the decision to put Alex on it a bit young, but I felt he was mostly done growing (and that's turned out to be true). Honestly, I think *some* of the people who have dogs with diarrhea on it, are over feeding. I wouldn't be too surprised for some dogs to have initial tummy problems from it, but I think it's important to wait it out, as it should settle.

 

Personally, I highly recommend it.

[bc4pack]

Thanks!

 

 

LizP

I've always kept any kibble in original package, closed up, inside a foodgrade,tightseal container , in the house, so

as not to expose to hot,humid temps (and to discourage insects)... and although a bit more expensive, tend to

go with smaller bags so it's used up quickly.

 

PSmitty

I'm glad to hear your guys are doing well on it!!!! I know there have to be quite a few dogs that don't have

too many problems or else ( I would think), there wouldn't be much market. Y'know?

Thanks for the tips.

[Liz P]

Honestly, I think *some* of the people who have dogs with diarrhea on it, are over feeding. I wouldn't be too surprised for some dogs to have initial tummy problems from it, but I think it's important to wait it out, as it should settle.

 

Personally, I highly recommend it.

 

I wonder that as well. You feed 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of Evo than you would feed of a lower caloric density food. Any time you switch foods you can get tummy upset.

 

I also highly recommend it. My dogs go nuts for it, even the kibble. If I wasn't feeding Evo I would likely go with Eagle Pack Ultra Power.

[Maralynn]

I've fed EVO with pretty good results. Right now I've got Missy on Barking at the Moon by Solid Gold - it is also a grain free kibble. She seems to be doing well on that - with less itchies than she had on regular EVO, but I suspect she might have a chicken allergy. Barking at the Moon is beef and salmon based, where as regular EVO is chicken and turkey based. I may try EVO Red Meat after this, but as Barking at the Moon is a little cheaper, I'll probably just stick with that for a while and add in raw a few times a week.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

My girl with grain sensitivities is on EVO and it's been a lifesaver for us. She was under a year old when I put her on it but I was at my wits end with her. The manufacturers do not recommend the food for dogs under 18 months old. Rumor is just now 18 months old but has been on EVO for a few months now. If I had another choice with her, I would have explored it. But there was nothing left to try with her and EVO is the only food that she DOESN'T have diarrhea with.

[Alaska]

I wish I could buy Eagle Pack Power, but I've asked for it to be ordered multiple times at several places and it never comes in. I wonder if it all gets shipped to places with high densities of sled dogs? (not my part of Alaska)

 

I'm about to take off on a 3-week hike with dogs and was contemplating feeding Evo during the hike. They eat raw normally, but I can't make that work for more than a weekend hike. I tried Honest Kitchen for hiking and that wasn't a solution for us either. When we were hiking last summer, my dogs lost weight like crazy on Eagle Pack Holistic Select until I increased their rations pretty substantially, so I'm looking at Evo because the caloric content is pretty high for a given volume/weight. Kepler has a sensitive GI tract though, so the Evo thing does worry me.

 

The other food I'm contemplating for the hike is Natures Variety Raw Instinct (Chicken), for the same reasons as Evo (high caloric content and close as I can get to raw). I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts about Evo vs. Instinct. I only have time to try out one of them for a week before we hit the trail, so I can't really do a proper comparison myself.

[bc friend]

Sara did wonderful on EVO, good weight, great coat, good appetite, solid stools, etc. and for an old dog that's saying a lot for a food! She would still be eating it if the vets had not recommended a lower protein food after her liver surgery. My regular vet said she thinks EVO is a good quality protein, just too high in protein for a dog w/liver issues. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a good food.

[Liz P]

I wish I could buy Eagle Pack Power, but I've asked for it to be ordered multiple times at several places and it never comes in. I wonder if it all gets shipped to places with high densities of sled dogs? (not my part of Alaska)

 

You live in ALASKA and can't get Eagle Power Pack!?!??! Wow. I have never had a problem getting a bag in NY, CT, MA, etc. Any pet food chain that carries Eagle Pack should be able to get a bag of Power for you! You just have to make sure they include it on their food shipment order. I suspect those pet stores were just forgetting to write it down on their order sheet. Or maybe they are leery of special ordering food that you might never pick up (lots of places are like that). It might help if you offer to pay in advance.

[SoloRiver]

I've tried both EVO and the Nature's Variety stuff with my dogs and they did fine on both. They did gain weight and you do need to feed less. My dogs don't eat much to begin with and they're both getting old so I started feeding them Canidae Platinum instead as an addendum to a partly raw, partly cooked diet.

 

EVO is the only kibble I've been able to use as a training treat. Dogs LOVE it.

[Lenajo]

Evo red meat so far gives my dogs horrific diarrhea. These are the dogs that can eat virtually anything, switch etc without a hitch. I thought it was just a rare "switch" issue at first, but it didn't improve. Tried a second bag, thinking maybe was a fluke, same thing. And I do feed less, and my dogs are very much used to high protein variety (raw) for years. They transfer on and off other kibbles fine - though a few do cause softer stools. Nothing like this however.

 

Evo chicken/poultry is ok though - but they drink a lot on it.

 

Evo cat food is one of our favorite treats to train with.

[Carson Crazies]

Like Lenajo I also had explosive diarrhea on the Red Meat EVO. I suspect the chicken variety would likely be OK. I've just finished a 2nd bag of NV's Instinct (Chicken) and the dog that eats it has done really nicely on it. I've tried TWO's Ocean Blue and Wild N Natural - various issues, including strange smells to the coats and losing body condition. I'm trying one of the Wellness Core formulas right now - so far so good.

[mbernard2424]

The false advertising that Evo does on their packaging gets to me. They say it is the same as a raw food diet (i.e. "If you like the idea of feeding raw, but prefer a gently cooked food that provides benefits that match raw, frozen or home prepared high-meat pet diets.") Evo is most assuredly not the same as a raw food diet (and they may have changed their packaging, but the labeling I saw when Evo first came out did say that). It is misleading and false advertising. I also note that they now have all sorts of new fangled versions of their original formula. How typical of a commercial pet food company.

 

Evo is extremely high in protein, which seems like a good thing, dogs need protein right, a raw meat diet is high in protein, right? The difference is, the protein in Evo and every other kibble or canned food is cooked. Cooking changes protein. Dogs and cats evolved eating their protein raw. I have heard of dogs (and cats) who were fed Evo having kidney problems and that doesn't surprise me. I believe the first perscription kibble diet that was formulated was for dogs with kidney disease. Kidney disease is certainly very, very prevalent in cats. Given most dogs and cats are fed a cooked protein diet, that does not surprise me.

 

I commend Evo and now all the other companies who jumped on the band wagon for taking the grains out of kibble, it's about time, but I would not feed exclusively Evo or any other super-high-protein cooked food to a dog or cat for any length of time. Who can afford it anyway???

 

That said, I feed an exclusively raw, 100 percent home-prepared diet to my dogs and cats. It is a lot of work, but it is a commitment I made over fifteen years ago. I highly recommend it, dogs and cats thrive on a well-prepared raw meat diet. But to feed a raw diet most of the time and then, when it is inconvenient to feed raw: you don't have something thawed out, or you are traveling so you feed kibble is darned hard on a digestive system that had been previously digesting raw food. It takes ten minutes to run into a grocery store and grab a slab of meat if you are traveling or don't have something thawed out at home. I traveled to cat shows for years and not once did I feed my cats kibble or even canned food. I traveled to NC from MA over three days with ten cats and fed them raw the whole way. If you cannot make the commitment to continue to feed a raw meat diet to your dogs all of the time, then maybe your dogs would be better off on an exclusively kibble or canned food diet.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

If someone would make a grain-free, average-protein diet I would be more than happy to feed that to my girl. I don't understand why grain-free has to be synonymous with "extremely high protein" though, because I don't necessarily think it is a good thing either.

 

I did feed this dog raw for a while but even that didn't end up working out for her very well.

[Lenajo]

If you cannot make the commitment to continue to feed a raw meat diet to your dogs all of the time, then maybe your dogs would be better off on an exclusively kibble or canned food diet.

 

Any fresh food is better than no fresh food. A high quality kibble that limits grain and carbs is better than one that doesn't. But *just like raw* what suits one dog is not necessarily going to suit all of them.

 

I've added up the numbers on raw and to do it correctly, with the quality of meat and bones I prefer, it cost comparibly to high quality kibble. So cost isn't going to be a factor for most of us in that regard- supply, availability, and how the dog does on the diet offered will.

 

on the grain issue, one of the leading "natural" gurus was Juliette de Barclai-Levy. She recommend occassional corn for her dogs....go figure. That little note in her books seems to be forgotten by the grain-hating crowd.

 

as for "numbers fed", I'll top your 10 cats and 3 days, to 12 dogs and 3 weeks. So it's been there, done that. I've also taken some kibble on other trips because of the weather - I find kibble much safer than 3 day old cooler chicken in 100 degree heat. You have to use judgement - and I find a dog is much happier without major gastric upset in my van, as I am.

[Liz P]

Evo is extremely high in protein, which seems like a good thing, dogs need protein right, a raw meat diet is high in protein, right? The difference is, the protein in Evo and every other kibble or canned food is cooked. Cooking changes protein. Dogs and cats evolved eating their protein raw. I have heard of dogs (and cats) who were fed Evo having kidney problems and that doesn't surprise me. I believe the first perscription kibble diet that was formulated was for dogs with kidney disease. Kidney disease is certainly very, very prevalent in cats. Given most dogs and cats are fed a cooked protein diet, that does not surprise me.

 

Um... Cooked protein is more bioavailable than raw. Most kidney diseases in pets are congenital. I asked a board certified nutritionist about your post and she said that the high levels of protein in Evo are FINE for healthy dogs and will not cause kidney disease.

 

Please do some reading about the historical development of the first kidney diet and how it evolved over the years. Yes, that first diet was low in protein, but with our current knowledge sick pets (who need more protein because they are in a negative energy balance) no longer have to eat low protein diets to manage their disease.

 

If you are feeding a raw diet your dogs are getting a higher % of their available calories and nutrients from protein than those eating Evo.

[nancy in AZ]

Please do some reading about the historical development of the first kidney diet and how it evolved over the years. Yes, that first diet was low in protein, but with our current knowledge sick pets (who need more protein because they are in a negative energy balance) no longer have to eat low protein diets to manage their disease.

 

 

I have spent hours doing nutritional research and still have a hard time understanding what the correct course to take is because I get so much conflicting information and I'm not sure whcih info to put stock in. I try to stick to vet sites and .orgs to filter out commercial promo, but I've also spent some time on Wysong's site, since there's a wealth of info there. What I don't understand is why a protein rich diet is contraindicated for senior dogs and dogs with liver/kidney issues if it is excusively high quality protein that can be broken down easily. Or is that just a consequence of a diet lower in fat?

 

I have a senior dog with apparently somewhat mild to meoderate liver/kidney issue indicators. My understanding was that the digestibility of the protein content was more important than the amount of protein fed. And secondarily, the amount of ammonia produced as a by-product. As I understand it, digestion of red meat produces more ammonia that has to be filtered by the kidneys. I showed another vet in my vet's practice some pure natural fish jerky treats to find out if they were OK to give her. She said no no no, she needs a *low* protein diet. This vet even objected to my feeding her homeade because it wasn't as precise in balanced nutrients as feeding her the prescription diet in her opinion. This just seems to fly in the face of common sense to me. Canned vs homemade ?? (And it was she that gave me a copy of the homemade diet ingredients to begin with) For example it didn't specify fat content for the hamburger, it just said "regular" hamburger, not ground round.

 

Now my regular vet has contradicted some of this and emphasized the digestibility of protein fed. My research has indicated that eggs are the most bio-available of proteins, followed by organ/muscle meat and cottage chees (I'm trying to find the cite for this, I have it printed out at home, but will post the link when I find it). My research has also indicated that most dogs (aside from working or lactating females) don't require more than about 18%-22% protein, but that any amount over what is required is simply excreted. So then why are most senior feeds, and presription liver/kidney foods lower in protein if this has been refuted?

 

I've also been examining Kcals/gm measures and was frankly shocked to find out that The Hills Prescription l/d diet is higher in food value (with all it's fillers eg cellulose powder, corn starch, corn gluten meal and other crap that I really hate to feed Minnie along with that synthetic vitamin K, menadione sodium bisulfate http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients scroll down to vitamins) than many of the premium senior feed wholistic brands I've compared it to. I'm having a hard time reconciling all of this info. Any help would be appreciated. BTW, the protein basis for the Hill's is dried egg product, primarily.

 

 

Any insights appreciated.

[PSmitty]

If someone would make a grain-free, average-protein diet I would be more than happy to feed that to my girl. I don't understand why grain-free has to be synonymous with "extremely high protein" though, because I don't necessarily think it is a good thing either.

 

I did feed this dog raw for a while but even that didn't end up working out for her very well.

 

Debbie, I don't know if you about it or not, but Wellness just came out with a new grain-free formula, Core. It has a somewhat lower protein level than Evo, 36% vs. 42%, I believe. I got a bag as a kind of "taste test", since someone I know works with Mother Hubbard, sort-of. Anyway, my three loved it, and they all did well on it, but it was a small bag that only lasted a couple of days, so, not a very long test. Since the protein level is lower, though, I thought I might mention it to you.

[Lenajo]

There is a big difference between feeding for kidney failure, and for kidney disease. You have to know the lab numbers - as the high quality protein will help kidneys to maintain function (sometimes even heal) but once the kidney are done, they are done...too much protein just makes the dog feel worse because of the side effects of the unmetabolized protein.

 

You have a 2 edged problem with both liver and kidney issues. Again, knowing the numbers is essential. If only moderate disease, there is lots of benefit to a quality diet with moderate to high levels of protein (depending on activity level). If impending failure you get into having to reduce the phosphorus (for the kidneys) and the ammonia (for the liver) levels.

 

I'm in human med, but the first rule of thumb when liver enzymes rising is to eat a quality diet and avoid abusers of the liver (for humans, tylenol and alcohol, some medications as well - the latter being a big issue with dogs - have to watch those persciption meds!). You need to follow ut on why the LFT (liver function tests) are rising - is it cancer, hepatits, fatty liver? The cause can help you deal with the problem.

 

For rising kidney levels -- address the cause, don't abuse them further...same as liver.

 

If this was my dog, based on my *personal* (as an educated dog owner) reserach I'd stick with a high quality raw diet - which is somewhat high in protein, but very low in perservatives and chemicals. I'd feed organic and grass fed meat, including organs. The latter was a particualarily successful suggestion by my vet - there is a "like cures like" school of though in holistic vet med that she is seeing success with.

 

Interestingly her kidney diet is half cooked oatmeal, and half red meat/organs. She has great success with it.

 

If you need more specifics and leadership that books and suggestions (and I wouldn't blame you a bit if you did )I would recommend a consult with a good dog nutritionist like Monica Segal (author of several books on diet) and/or a holistic vet with education in nutrition. Susan Wynn DVM (former president of the AVHMA) is a vet who comes to mind immediately. All of these people can work by phone (Segal by email too I think) and in person - in conjunction with your vet.

 

You can always branch out and further individualize the diet later when you feel more comfortable and it's obvious you have a good baseline going on.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've used EVO original formula with my gang and they did really great. I'd probably still be feeding it if it weren't so expensive. The Red Meat version is one of only two brands of kibble Ben can eat and is in his rotation.

 

I didn't have any problems with ploppy poop but I feed it in combination with raw meaty bones, half and half.

 

Natural Balance now has three grain frees that are 20-21% protein - Fish and Sweet Potato, Duck and Potato, and Venison and Sweet Potato. They also had a cat formula that was Venison and Green Pea - they had to pull it during the recalls and I don't know whether it's available again yet. That's not low protein but it's lower protein than many of the dog foods now. My vet says it's fine to feed to a high energy dog, though it will kill your pocketbook!

[INU]

Jazzy had problem (diarrhea)on Innova but both of my dogs are doing great on EVO. Cooper's coat looks so soft and shiny. Jazzy put on weight even though I only feed her 1/2 a day!! They adjusted easily and they both look and feel great. No allergy either. Because you only have to feed so little, I think it's cheaper than other premium dog food.

[OurBoys]

Jazzy had problem (diarrhea)on Innova but both of my dogs are doing great on EVO. Cooper's coat looks so soft and shiny. Jazzy put on weight even though I only feed her 1/2 a day!! They adjusted easily and they both look and feel great. No allergy either. Because you only have to feed so little, I think it's cheaper than other premium dog food.

 

I am soooo glad I discoved EVO RF! JJ use to be on prescription allergy pills. He would chew on himself so bad, he would get scabs all over his backside. It took time but I finally found the right amount of protein and omaga 3's for him to come off them. He hasn't had to take an allergy pills in months! It's a bit more expensive than the dog food with a bunch of fillers/cereals but in the long run, EVO has actually been cheaper for us. In fact, DH and I were talk last night about how our cat is costing us more in food than JJ and Jake together.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Rebecca, I know we had a discussion about the Natural Balance products being truly grain-free a few weeks ago. I scanned their site again and the Venison and Sweet Potato formula now DOES have the "Grain Free" distinction on it's page. The other two do not. That being said, even the Venison and Sweet Potato formula still contains Flaxseed, which is a grain, so I'm still curious as to how they can market it as completely grain-free. Is Natural Balance really any cheaper than EVO, though? Rumor does so well on the EVO I am hesitant to change her diet at all.

[Guest pax]

I wonder if flax might be a legume and not a vegetable?

 

ETA: I meant grain, not vegetable, sorry.