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Difficult Rescue Case, advice appreciated.


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Hi everyone,

 

Longtime Border Collie owner here, on my 3rd rescueee, a young male by the name of HrrGrr.

 

hrrgrr1.jpg

(please excuse my bedroom, I'm renovating a bank owned house I got a great deal on)

 

Background is sketchy, he's approximately 8mos old, unaltered bc (possibly partially Sheltie mix based on his size). Dropped off with 2 siblings about 2.5mos ago at a northern Colorado "rescue" (I use the term loosely) with a note that said 'sell em, keep em, shoot em, I don't care'. He has some rudimentary care, shots and so forth. He's been here for just at 72hrs.

 

Troubles. Obviously, he needs to be fixed, but more worrying and pressing are his social issues. I don't think he's ever been handled, housebroken, worn a collar or been on a leash. Totally, 110% unsocialized with humans, he did seem to get along with the BC bitch that he was sharing a large dog run with. But, if I try and walk him at all, its like the elvish rope around Gollum's neck. "It burns us masssster!" and he lunges and tries to slip the harness to escape. At this point I'm trying to just let him get used to being in a house. He has a nice huge crate at the end of a long hall so he can watch everything happening and still feel as though he has a safe retreat. Since he came home Friday he's gone from cowering in the back of the crate to edging up to the door to watch the hallway. (more on that in a minute).

 

I've been loosely following this advice:

 

http://dogforme.com/pages/unsocialized.html

 

Slowly trying to let HrrGrr watch the world and get used to it.

 

He is eating, drinking, peeing and defecating (in the house but thats not a pressing issue), so it seems he's functioning normally so far.

 

Today I had a gent who also works in the headstart program at the Denver Dumb Friends League come out and I'm begining to regret having done so. He used the shoulder harness that I have on HrrGrr to bring him out in the livingroom, where HrrGrr immediately defecated. After cleaning this up, he took the dog outside and proceeded to try to force walk him around. All he suceeded in doing was scaring the dog back into high stress mode and almost letting him slip the harness. At this point I don't feel that the forced 'walks' (dragging HrrGrr around the house on his lead) will be productive. He's also crammed himself back in the corner of the crate after Mr. Trainer got done with him.

 

police-chief.jpg

(nice work there Lou).

 

Anyhow, I'm no stranger to the breed or their high demands, that I can meet easily with my work. Getting him to just recognize his name and take a lead will be a great starting point. What I'm inclined to try is letting him rest in his kennel, approaching frequently, lowering to his level, a few minutes of t-touch massage, a small treat. I think letting him work up the courage to leave the kennel on his terms is less stressful and build up the 'trust bank' faster. I can also 'borrow' a BC that I trained previously to let HrrGrr see that I'm not going to hurt him, maybe to let him watch me play with another dog will get him more curious(?).

 

I'm a competent trainer and always willing to learn and I won't give up, but I also recognize that I can always use more input.

 

If you need more information, ask and I'll see what I can come up with

 

Kelly

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Yep, "Lou" sounds like he belongs in the Dumb Friends league alright!

 

I know there are a good number of people on the boards that can help you out. To me, (I am not a trainer/rescuer though) what you are doing sounds reasonable. Have you considered maybe changing his name? Is it possible that he only associates that name with bad things? I changed Cricket's name at 6 months old. Her name as Dolly which she did not respond to at all. Cricket seemed to catch her right away. I also had 2 other dogs when Cricket came home. She was terrified of everything! The floors, someone sneezing you name it. She was very good with the other dogs and she did accept her leash when I took her with another dog.

 

Thanks for taking him in. He looks like he'll be a fine fellow once he gets a chance.

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First of all, get that boy a new name! :rolleyes:

 

I think you already know that the Dumb Friends guy, was well, I won't go there...I like your ideas much better and think you should trust your instincts.

 

Mary, who runs a rescue here in Florida would be a great person to talk with, since she helped rehabilitate a dog in similar condition. It took a looooong time, patience and work, but she turned Indy around and was able to adopt him out. She's on vacation right now, so I don't know when/if she'll be able to respond, but I'm sure she'll be around.

 

Thank you for helping him. I'd love it if you could keep up updated. He's cute.

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Anyhow, I'm no stranger to the breed or their high demands, that I can meet easily with my work. Getting him to just recognize his name and take a lead will be a great starting point. What I'm inclined to try is letting him rest in his kennel, approaching frequently, lowering to his level, a few minutes of t-touch massage, a small treat. I think letting him work up the courage to leave the kennel on his terms is less stressful and build up the 'trust bank' faster. I can also 'borrow' a BC that I trained previously to let HrrGrr see that I'm not going to hurt him, maybe to let him watch me play with another dog will get him more curious(?).

 

I think this all sounds like a very good idea. At this point, however, I think I'd just drop a treat or two in his crate as I passed by and wait for a few days on the other. Keep things very,very low key and stress free while he can mentally sort out his new living arrangements.

 

You could also try leaving a few yummy treats scattered through the hall to reward him when he comes out.

 

I agree with the others on the "trainer"...

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Thanks guys. The DDFL is a great organization, but I suppose they can't control who volunteers.

 

As for the name, :ahem: that is his new name. He was being called 'Red' before. How, uninspired. I chose HrrGrr as a doggie variation of Herger (a character I'm fond of).

 

KrisK, thanks for the feral dog link, I've read so much off of Google and on here my head was swimming from options. Sometimes you see so much information after a search a kinda of informational myopia sets in.

 

I'll keep you posted with updates, glad to be onboard here!

 

Kelly

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Guest WoobiesMom

The Cautious Canine book is excellent as well. Woobie wasn't exactly feral when we got him but was extremely shy and fearful. He was very afraid of my 20 yr old son. Jason won him over by sitting near him with yummy smelling chicken behind his back. He didn't make eye contact or talk and didn't face him. It took about 3 days of Jason sitting like this many times a day in about 20 minute increments to get him close. I'd feed him treats and then lure him closer and closer to Jason.

 

Woobie also did (and still does) the slip out of the harness move when scared. I found a well-fit martingale collar works well when we're in class and developing a 2nd sense about when he's going to try to bolt was a lifesaver.

 

Good luck!

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He's shellshocked right now. Don't do anything to him that isn't essential. Crate (quite, dark), outside in xpen to potty. Carry him if you must. give him at least 2 weeks of this, then start addressing the issues one at a time. It may be that he's socialized fine once he gets a chance to get over the shelter environment and all the transfers.

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He's shellshocked right now.

 

I really agree on that one. Losing Maggie (his dog run companion), the move into a home for the first time, having his own crate for the first time, the change from the 'rescue' to here, etc, etc, etc.

 

I think what was said in the 'feral dog thread' about slow is fast is REALLY the key here. He WANTS to join in, I can just 'feel' it. He's not a lost cause, just momentarily lost. :rolleyes:

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KellyR

Welcome to the boards and kudos to you for taking the youngster in.

Sounds like you have a good grasp on how to deal with his issues at hand.

I had youngster about the same age a year or so back and it took about 2 months for him to really shake off the shellshock and shine.

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Wow! Tough case, but I agree that it sounds like your plan is a good one.

 

My dog wasn't that bad off when I got him, but he was very fearful of dogs, humans, the sound of a leaf dropping... Slow and gentle was much better than fast and hard, in almost all introductions to things.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

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Guest Rockie's mum

I know less than nothing about training a dog with problems

 

but I just wanted to say Good Luck with him and I hope everything

 

works out well.

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Good news, by this morning, he's returned to his previous position of watching from the crate door, no more cowering in the back. He still shakes a bit during massage.

 

I hear him eat every morning about 4am (the clinking of the bowl), so I hit on a thought. What if every two or three days, I move the bowls a few inches away. Just outside his crate, then 2 days later, 2 inches from his crate, etc, etc.

 

Good idea to get him farther and farther out?

 

Also I see a lot of examples of people using their dogs to prove we're ok and not evil, so I'll be picking up my helper today too.

 

Wish me luck.

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Kelly,

I did teach one of my rescues to walk on a leash by walking her beside one of my older dogs. If she felt leash pressure on her collar, her belly would hit the floor, but as long as she was walking beside my other dog, she was fine. It didn't take long for her to take to walking on a leash herself.

 

J.

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Guest WoobiesMom

Wishing you all the luck in the world!! I have a soft spot in my heart for the shy skittish dogs since getting Woobie. Every small improvement is such cause for celebration! We didn't feed Woobie from a bowl for the first several weeks we had him. We wanted as many positive associations with us as possible. So he ate from all the family members' hands while we sat with our back to him to be less intimidating and we took him out with us for potty breaks and praised and cooed over every little thing he did. We avoided direct eye contact ALOT in those initial days, if we made eye contact he'd bolt for his hiding spot in the corner. It was slow going but he did great. The rescue people and foster parents said he didn't walk well on a leash but for some reason, me taking him for walks was never a problem. He loved to go exploring. It was teaching him to walk on a loose leash that took some time.

 

You're doing great!

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Good news, by this morning, he's returned to his previous position of watching from the crate door, no more cowering in the back. He still shakes a bit during massage.

 

I hear him eat every morning about 4am (the clinking of the bowl), so I hit on a thought. What if every two or three days, I move the bowls a few inches away. Just outside his crate, then 2 days later, 2 inches from his crate, etc, etc.

 

Good idea to get him farther and farther out?

 

Also I see a lot of examples of people using their dogs to prove we're ok and not evil, so I'll be picking up my helper today too.

 

Wish me luck.

 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. I hope your little helper proves to be a big help! :rolleyes:

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My instincts say it may be a tad too soon for massage, or any sort of touching other than matter-of-fact haveto type of touches. Honestly, if I were in your position rather than trying to drag him out of his shell I'd give him (quite literally) at least two weeks of quiet stability, with no new expectations (other than the ones necessary), a schedule/routine, and just let him orient himself. I'd leave his food bowl where it is, and make an effort to be kind, gentle, and fair and just quietly accept whatever he offers at this point. There will be plenty of time for pulling his bowl out further and encouraging him to engage the world more. Be patient with both of you!

 

Good on you for taking him in. :rolleyes:

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Point taken guys.

 

He did seem very interested in Kaleb (no I didn't name him) tho and watched attentively. Didn't join in, but the experience was positive I think.

 

More to follow. Its like a dogblog, but, well, not.. :rolleyes:

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Here's the general routine for at least the next two weeks. HrrGrr stays in his crate as much as he likes (I leave the door open). I don't remove or touch him at all. Since I haven't I haven't installed new floors yet if he comes out at night and pottys on the floor, I don't care, I just quietly clean it up when I find it. I know thats yucky, but I've got lots of lysol and Febreez. I cheerfully say "Hi HrrGrr" when I walk down the hall to desensitize him to talking and noise. I've also switched to feeding him a 1/3 can of Newmans Own Organic Dog food with 3 drops of Rescue Remedy mixed in once a day in his cage. If he gets hungry and wants more, there's a big bowl of dry kibble in the kitchen. :rolleyes: And his water has RR as well now.

 

Small update. HrrGrr has been fascinated watching Kaleb walking around. This AM when I came out to go to the bathroom, HrrGrr was STANDING up at the door to his crate watching. After letting Kaleb out to make his morning potty/fence/security run, Kaleb came back in and HrrGrr SAT down at the door of his crate to watch Kaleb and hasn't moved since. This is a HUGE (little) step, this is the first time he's expressed interest in anything outside his crate, so I'm really happy.

 

Its amazing how after years of working with BC's and training, how such small things can bring such great joy.

 

I'll keep you posted.

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