Difficult Rescue Case, advice appreciated.

[KrisK]

That's such good news! I'm sure HrrGrr will be full of surprises for you! There is a Chinese proverb that says something about the longest journey starts with the first step. It sounds like HrrGrr is making the first steps. When he's able to accept scruffles and hugs - give him one for me

[KellyR]

And if anyone is curious, Kaleb is the red BC in play bow in my avatar picture. He's my door opener and general malcontent, but as gentle as they come.

 

Kelly

[urge to herd]

HrrGrr (love the name) sounds so much like Shoshone. Everything everyone has said about slower is faster is absolutely right on. For the first year or so we had her, everytime I pushed Shonie she had big time regression, often spilling over into areas other than the one I was pushing, if that makes any sense.

 

Touch is from humans is so foreign to these guys, I think backing off on the massage until he's more relaxed will get you further. This dog will hone your observational skills, let him go at his own pace in getting to know you.

 

If there's something you have to do handling wise, do it quickly - say, if you have to take a thorn out of his paw, stuff like that - and get it over with.

 

Meds might be indicated, I wish we'd known about vet behaviorists when we first got our little bundle of quirks.

 

Don't underestimate him, though. Shoshone house trained herself, she saw that Sam peed and pooped in the yard and followed that lead. She peed exactly once in the house in the first few days we got her, and then never since then unless she was ill. She loves to train and work with me, and was quite playful with Buzz before she got older and stiffened up.

 

Have a great time, please post your reports!

 

Ruth n the BC3

[KellyR]

Excellent news.

 

As I've said, I have plywood floors until the paint is done and then I'll install new hardwood. So housebreaking isn't a huge priority for me, I came home this afternoon, Kaleb and HrrGrr have been inside most of today (9:30am til 2:30pm).

 

I think, or I'm 99% sure, that HrrGrr has pooped.... in the living room, the reason that this is important is because until now, he's always pooped in the corner just outside his crate. So I'm STRONGLY suspecting that HrrGrr and Kaleb were playing around the house while I was gone. This is a BIG deal. One thing thats really unusual is that I noticed is that Kaleb's toys haven't been moved an inch from where I put them down this morning. So Kaleb had SOMETHING else to entertain himself with while I was out and I'm betting it was HrrGrr.

 

WooHoo!

 

Kelly

[OurBoys]

That's great, Kelly!! Congrats!!!

[Samantha J]

Hello, i haven't got any experience with what you are doing but wanted to say hi

You are doing a great job!

You are also in the right place for heaps of good advice on here.

 

I look forward to hearing more of HrrGrr's progress.

[KrisK]

Well, you're probably the first person I know who is excited about poop in the livingroom LOL!! It certainly sounds like a big step has been made by HrrGrr (that name is growing on me BTW). Please keep posting - I'm positive I'm not the only one who wants to applaud for HrrGrr every time something good happens

[KellyR]

The HrrGrr Cam is up and running. I need to figure out how to make it keep a running tally, but for now, it's a single capture every 30 seconds or so.

 

Point your browsers at:

 

http://www.ghostwheeltech.net/hrrgrr.jpg

 

KrisK, you're right, being excited about poop in the living room is a toughie, but I'll take it!

[mbc1963]

I'm dying to see HrrGrr, but all I get when I click on the link is a blue blur.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Mary

[KellyR]

I'm dying to see HrrGrr, but all I get when I click on the link is a blue blur.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Hrm seems to be working for me and a couple of people I IM'd as well. Lets try this then, it should auto update:

 

 

Better?

 

And on a funny note, I woke up about 4am to find Mr. HrrGrr standing at the bedroom door watching Kaleb and I sleep. As soon as I woke up, he dashed back into the crate. He's dying of curiousity!

[Samantha J]

And on a funny note, I woke up about 4am to find Mr. HrrGrr standing at the bedroom door watching Kaleb and I sleep. As soon as I woke up, he dashed back into the crate. He's dying of curiousity!

 

 

Awwww bless him. Hopefully he will do a little more each day.

 

Nice feeling i bet knowing he is getting curious about you and wanting to come and have a look (even if at the moment it is just while you sleep). Got to be a good sign though!

[laurie etc]

And on a funny note, I woke up about 4am to find Mr. HrrGrr standing at the bedroom door watching Kaleb and I sleep. As soon as I woke up, he dashed back into the crate. He's dying of curiousity!

 

Congrats on taking in a tough case- If Hrr Grr has a stable (normal) temperament, I think you will be surprised by how fast he comes around. These dogs seem to blossom under the right circumstances. I've had a number of similar cases, and only one didn't end up acclimated to "the real world" eventually (he ended up a severe fear biter who showed his true colors months after his rescue from being locked up in a chicken coop for 10 months). In reading your posts, I have a few suggestions.

 

1) Don't baby him, and don't give him "too much" freedom at this point. Handle him in a "matter of fact" no nonsense way. Calmly, but (for instance) insist that when you need him to go outside, he goes outside. That doesn't mean that you can't recognize his fear, but don't let the fear rule the situation. Simply pick him up gently and take him if he won't go on his own. I'd have a collar and a 1 ft long "tab" attached to him at all times.

 

2) These dogs need firm constistent leadership, not the "ok do whatever you want" kind of management. I would restrict his living area, and not set him up for failure later by having "no rules" right now. Treat his situation like a little puppy that isn't housebroken. I think it's better that he not learn that relieving himself anywhere is OK, and that he has the freedom to roam around loose while you aren't there or you're asleep. As much as you would like to let him have "freedom", he hasn't earned it yet, just like a baby puppy. I'd set up a baby gate situation so that he can get out of his crate but not have total freedom in the house when you can't be watching him.

 

3) Don't spend too much individual "intense" time with him yet. He's not ready for it. Integrate him into the household, but keep him in the "lower echelon" of attention right now. He will be more comfortable feeling like he's at the "low end of the pack" than like a "special needs" boy. You will know when he's ready for more attention. He will tell you. I'd spend a lot of time sitting on the floor near him but not making eye contact or interacting (read a book, watch TV); tossing/dropping treats near him, cuddling your other dog near him. He needs to see that you are "trustworthy". Your other dog will be very helpful in conveying this message.

 

That's all for now - good luck with him! Wish I was closer, I'd take one of his cute little sisters!

Laurie

[KellyR]

Ok, so first week has passed. A few bumps and bites (I deserved all three of them). With all the advice here, I've compiled the next phase of HrrGrr's metamorphasis into a good dog.

 

1) I set up a sleeping pad in that unfinished bathroom and closed it off with a baby gate. He can have the bathroom as a retreat during the day, but its not really a place to hide (like his crate is now). Phase I

 

2) I moved the crate into my bedroom for sleeping at night ONLY, crate door closed. Phase II

 

3) I'm working on setting up a proper dog run in the back yard (ouch, more equipment = more $$$). Phase III

 

So here's my proposed new schedule:

 

7:00am: Remove from crate, carry outside to dog run.

7:20am: Remove from dog run, carry to baby gated bathroom. Feed by hand (cooked chicken).

 

(leave for work)

 

12:00pm: Remove from crate, carry outside to dog run.

12:20pm: Remove from dog run, carry to baby gated bathroom.

 

(leave for work)

 

5:00pm: Remove from crate, carry outside to dog run.

5:20pm: Remove from dog run, carry to baby gated bathroom. Feed by hand (warmed canned food).

 

9:00pm: Remove from baby gated bathroom, carry outside to dog run.

9:20pm: Remove from dog run, carry to crate for bedtime, provide small treat (dried liver).

 

(Rinse and Repeat)

 

I'm really looking forward to this next step. I think its a great culmination of the advice offered on here. I'll keep you posted. And for anyone that cares, the HrrGrrCam died a slow overnight death. So I'll work on it at some point.

 

[Guest WoobiesMom]

That sounds like a great plan, I'm so glad to hear about his baby steps! Will he have free run of the house with you from 5:20 to 9:00 so he can approach you or your dog if he feels like it? Bless you for being so patient and taking on this challenging boy. I'm sure the rewards will totally be worth it!

 

P.S. How do you set up the netcam thing? I need to spy on my kid while I'm at school at night this semester and it's something I never learned how to do. Is there a place with a good tutorial on the Internet?

[KellyR]

That sounds like a great plan, I'm so glad to hear about his baby steps! Will he have free run of the house with you from 5:20 to 9:00 so he can approach you or your dog if he feels like it? Bless you for being so patient and taking on this challenging boy. I'm sure the rewards will totally be worth it!

 

Hrm, I suppose I could do that too.

 

My house is a ranch, so its long and rooms are on each side. I think what I'll do is sit at the kitchen table with an office chair to surf/work on the laptop in the evening so he can see me. When I'm in the office now, he can only see the door.

 

P.S. How do you set up the netcam thing? I need to spy on my kid while I'm at school at night this semester and it's something I never learned how to do. Is there a place with a good tutorial on the Internet?

 

Well, to do it RIGHT, you need a Network cam, web cams with FTP publishing are 'so-so' at best. The problem is that a decent network cam and good commercial software are over 300.00. Ouch.

[KellyR]

Highs and Lows

 

Yesterday was really tough. In some ways some great things happened, in other ways I feel less positive.

 

On the upside, I knew I needed a dog run, but 200.00+ was just not in the budget this week as the 1st of the month looms. But I've always said 'leap and the net will appear' and sure enough, I found an ad on craigslists for a garage sale saying that they had a dog run for sale. I took the chance and drove out and sure enough there was a 4" tall, 5-sided run in near new condition for only 80.00! Hooray me!

 

I brought it home and set it up, went to work for a bit, came home and decided that it was time to put HrrGrr's new schedule into play.

 

Then the downside; I sat with him calmly and after a minute or two picked him up and all was well.

 

We started walking thru the house towards the kitchen and about halfway thru the kitchen, HrrGrr suddenly turned chomped down on my left wrist again (where he bit me the first day we crated him). I managed to get him into the dog run after a struggle and then went to clean my wrist. By the time I'd made it to the kitchen sink he was gone, he found one loose corner and gotten out and taken off.

 

I chased him down in the neighbors yard and brought him back kicking and fighting. So long story short, the whole being carried to his run, and back to his room has sparked a knock down drag out fight each time. I wont give up, but neither will he it seems.

 

HrrGrr in the Pentagon

 

*sighs* I'll keep you posted as time passes.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Oh no, I'm so sorry! Hang in there. I don't mean to rain on your parade but judging from the height of the run, I think he might be able to get through the top. When Woobie first went to the dog park and would get spooked, he could climb that 8 ft. chain link fence in seconds. I could barely get to him in time to correct him and keep him from making it over the top. I had nightmarish visions of him getting a leg stuck through the links and falling and snapping it in half. Never underestimate the power of a panic-stricken dog.

 

Sending you and HrrGrr positive vibes!

[OurBoys]

I'm glad you found a good deal with the dog run!

 

I'm sorry about your wrist. You did the right thing when you didn't make a big deal out of it. It sounds like you knew it was a fear reaction. You were taking him into a new situation. I feel when he knows he'll aways return to familar territory, he'll get use to it. And after awhile the dog run itself will become familar.

 

Since he's familar with Kaleb, do you think it might help if Kaleb was in the dog run with him? If he sees Kaleb in there, do you think he might realize it's not a bad place?

 

Be patient. You're doing a great job. HrrGrr is very lucky to have you.

[kaos]

I think you may want to slow WAY down, you may have amped up the schedule too quickly. After this incident I would probably go back to square one. Instead of looking at things daily, maybe try to look at long term gain, that way the one step forward forty back won't seem so disappointing. I think you may want to pretend that tomorow is the first day you are meeting and go from there, don't let this incident define your relationship.

 

It must be frustrating, I really feel for you. You are doing a great thing and I think the world of you for helping this poor guy.

 

Sara

[KellyR]

Since he's familar with Kaleb, do you think it might help if Kaleb was in the dog run with him? If he sees Kaleb in there, do you think he might realize it's not a bad place?

 

Kaleb is not with me full time, maybe only 1-3 days a week. If I had him full time, this would be a breeze.

 

I don't mean to rain on your parade but judging from the height of the run, I think he might be able to get through the top.

 

You can't see it in the photo, but he's on a steel lead too (which is long enough to prevent him from hanging himself), so even if he jumps out, I've got the lead attached to both his harness AND collar. I'm a quick learner. LOL

 

Kelly

[Guest WoobiesMom]

You can't see it in the photo, but he's on a steel lead too (which is long enough to prevent him from hanging himself), so even if he jumps out, I've got the lead attached to both his harness AND collar. I'm a quick learner. LOL

 

Kelly

 

Aha! Good thinkin'!

[KellyR]

Well, more good news.

 

The little power struggle last night seems to have settled the issue once and for all. HrrGrr seems to understand that biting me is not an option. He's also figured out that the water bottle is a good thing, I dole water out to him to make him understand that I'm the one running the show. When he see's me walking up with the bottle he's very attentive and solicitous, so that might become my standard approach for now.

 

So generally things are looking up, going out is fairly easy (compared to earlier) and coming in is still a bit of a challenge, there's usually a leap right as I approach the door, he'd obviously rather not go back inside. He ate a bit of scrambled egg tonight, so he's kinda taking food from me. Won't eat by hand yet, but will eat in front of me when I place it down. We're also getting along good in the run, he's generally amiable to being petted but picking him up or trying to walk him is still hard.

 

So I'll keep everyone posted as we move along, thanks for all the advice and good vibes, it's really helping!

[urge to herd]

Kelly, is there any way the kennel can be up against the fence? I'm thinking that he might feel less endangered if he wasn't open on all sides, so to speak.

 

I agree with Kaos, slow way, way down. Instead of a schedule that you're trying, even loosely, to adhere to, let HrrGrr let you know when he's ready to take the next step. Stay in the moment and let him come to you, as it were.

 

You might also consider some anti anxiety meds, at least in the short term. I think they'd be a great help.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[caveninit]

Well, more good news.

 

The little power struggle last night seems to have settled the issue once and for all. HrrGrr seems to understand that biting me is not an option. He's also figured out that the water bottle is a good thing, I dole water out to him to make him understand that I'm the one running the show. When he see's me walking up with the bottle he's very attentive and solicitous, so that might become my standard approach for now.

 

So generally things are looking up, going out is fairly easy (compared to earlier) and coming in is still a bit of a challenge, there's usually a leap right as I approach the door, he'd obviously rather not go back inside. He ate a bit of scrambled egg tonight, so he's kinda taking food from me. Won't eat by hand yet, but will eat in front of me when I place it down. We're also getting along good in the run, he's generally amiable to being petted but picking him up or trying to walk him is still hard.

 

So I'll keep everyone posted as we move along, thanks for all the advice and good vibes, it's really helping!

 

I'm glad to hear he is making some good strides. Keep up the amazing work!

I check this thread each day and I love reading about HrrGrr. He's so lucky to have you!

Hope your wrist isn't hurting too much

Janet

[KellyR]

Kelly, is there any way the kennel can be up against the fence? I'm thinking that he might feel less endangered if he wasn't open on all sides, so to speak.

 

I agree with Kaos, slow way, way down. Instead of a schedule that you're trying, even loosely, to adhere to, let HrrGrr let you know when he's ready to take the next step. Stay in the moment and let him come to you, as it were.

 

You might also consider some anti anxiety meds, at least in the short term. I think they'd be a great help.

 

Theres not really an ideal place for the run unfortunatly, the 3 sides are hilly, so that only leaves the house side. But, with the way the windows are situated, plus the AC compressor, it would make it realllly hard to watch him.

 

I'm kind of playing the 'schedule' bit by ear. Laurie and I have discussed a lot and I think this is more willful defiance of humans rather than any abuse or other problem. He's not mean, just ignorant of his place in the pack that he and I comprise. I know it sounds very fast, just moving into the second week, but he is getting it. Transfers from den, to crate to outside, etc are much easier. Not calm, but getting there, especially the going outside (he likes that) and into the crate (another favorite).

 

As for the meds, I'm strongly considering a bit more time to stabalize before I drag him to a vet somewhere. He'll need snipped, round of shots, and anxiety meds at the minimum.

 

All things are in the works.