Shock Collars and Prongs

[Guest LJS1993]

After reading alot of the input I'd have to say that my view on shock collars, prongs, and other devices has changed slightly. However my change of thought is the following. I would only use an e-collar or other device to keep my dog from possibly life threatening behaviors such as chasing cars, incessantly chasing every living animal, etc.... I still don't think using one for issues such as pulling is really something I consider that annoying as to use one of those devices.

[muggs]

I feel the prong probably has benefits - Gael actually could breathe easier on a prong than regular collar. But my experience with a prong and gentle leader is exactly like Christy wrote above about her schnauzer mix. I felt Gael, my incessant puller, got more dog aggressive when having the prong on. I'm sure each dog is different, but I know exactly how you feel Christy!! After constant work on this issue, she walks fine unless other dogs on leash are around and then brains go out the window. God forbid she sees dogs working sheep! In those times I think she'd expire on a choke collar. Maybe I too will dust off the gentle leader and try, try again.

 

Edit: or just drop her off for a couple of weeks at Becca's-hehehe.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Thanks Becca, I'll try the backing up technique and just be persistent! I thought maybe you had some magical incantation that would make life easier in an instant!

[BustopherJones]

I would never use a shock collar or prong collar on a dog. The closest I have ever come to any form of control collar is a Martingale/Check-Choke style to discourage pulling when walking; the collar makes its point without posing a risk of injury to the dog. My vet also indicated that a loosely-fitted choke chain is acceptable on dogs with milder pulling issues, but personally I am not a great fan of them.

[BCMomma]

We've used the Invisible Fence in the past (when the girls were pups) because they were digging out of the yard and running loose in the neighborhood. And we live a stones throw from a very busy street. We tried everything from filling holes with cement blocks to burying chicken wire, etc. These two would dig holes large enough for my husband to be lost up to his waist - they were digging around the blocks and under the wire. Luckily we have wonderful neighbors that would call and by the time I'd get home they'd found their way back home and onto the patio sound asleep from their adventures.

 

We tried everything and after realizing we were fighting a losing battle we had the fence installed. We now don't even keep batteries in the collars because they stay away from the fence when the collars are on their necks. We have always had it set at the lowest rating and did extensive training with them both. We never kept the collars on them in the front yard when we were home with them because they ran too fast through the "zone". But now that they are older they don't go too far anymore.

 

They have the run of the house and yard when we are away at work because of doggie doors and the larged fenced yard but the Invisible Fence gave us peace of mind that they'd be home safe and sound when we returned.

[jrid]

I have e-collars I use on 2 of my dogs when I take them into the field to run. I rarely have to shock them. As long as they have the collars on they will come when called. If they don't come when called I just use the vibrate button and it gets their attention. It was a hard decision to use an e-collar and believe me I felt like a failure as a trainer. However, now my dogs can run without me worrying that they will head for the road and not come when called. And because I am not constantly nagging them about getting too far away from me, they now come much more readily. I am sure it is because of the e-collar, but hey I don't care.

 

I don't think e-collars should be used for every training situation and I certainly don't think everyone needs to use one. But when they can be life saving, I think they are worth every penny you might spend to purchase one.

 

I don't use prong collars when walking my dogs because those collars have a tendency to come apart at the most inopportune moments. Because my dogs don't pull, I can use a buckle or choke collar.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

I cannot fathom not caring that a dog has zero recall without a shock collar.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I am reminded of another use for an electronic trainer. A physically handicapped handler/trainer. And in that case I say, whatever works. More power to 'em. Hmm, maybe not the best choice of words.

[INU]

I don't use Shock Collar but I like to keep an open mind. An experienced dog trainer who mostly does positive R invited me to a shock collar seminar. It was meant to be for teaching how to use the shock collar the correct way. Too many people abuse or misuse shock collars and it gives shock collars bad name - they said.

 

I had both of my dogs but I took them only because I take them everywhere I can. From the start I told the participants I was not a shock collar user or believer. I stood back and observed all other dogs trying shock collar on the lowest setting and being 'taught' commands. One of the dogs was an Aussie which his owner has been working on some issues - one of them was him being stubborn and not doing as told. They put on a collar and spent 5-10 minutes 'teaching' a down command. The dog refused, shook his head several times and tried to bite his shoulder each time a shock was delivered. He eventually did a down and got released. The owner looked at me and made a face. Later, when the Aussie was standing on regular leash next to him, he asked for down and the dog did it without a fight.

 

I didn't see everything but based on what I saw that day, it didn't change my mind. It surprised to me to see the trainer who knows/uses PR would use shock collar to teach basic obedience.

 

But then, I don't have a monstrous dog to deal with. I am sure there are cases where shock collars were used successfully. I felt like they were too depended on using the postive punishment.

[bc4pack]

All I can say is in relevance to the dogs I have had through the years... this includes both my personal BCs and

the several narcotic detector dogs ( from Lab, to GSD, to Malinois...)

Back in the day I used choke chains and I found myself always using the dead ring anyway... I never had to give harsh leash corrections....FWIW a good handler can work a dog in a choke chain and never let it do anymore than

jingle a bit.

I got away from them for good about 10 years ago and work dogs solely on a flat buckle.....

and have not missed the chains at all.

[Kyrasmom]

I don't think that most dogs NEED an E-collar however there is nothing evil about them if used correctly. I have perimeter collars on all of my dogs and find it invaluable. Not only can they not get out (and I had a hardcore escape artist - two actually) but it keeps them away from the fence line in general. They don't care who goes by and more importantly they do not get close enough for anyone to harm them....should that ever be a likely scenario. Now I even rarely have it on them and they still don't get close. It's pretty cute to see them all lined up when the tennis ball goes "out of bounds".

 

The tool is only as bad as the handler IMO and just about any training device can be incorrectly used.

 

Maria

[HighDesertSpice]

I would like to work only on a flat leather collar, but my rescue spice girl would choke herself from the get go by leaning so hard into the leash, she would spit up......After two years of all of the best advice I could find, and only a very little progress, I experimented a LOT with a chain collar on myself (elbows, ankles, wrists, et al) and followed the advice of another trainer & went to a chain collar. Hailey doesn't always wear it. In fact, she DOES act differently when it is on. Perhaps if I had gotten Hailey as a puppy, we would have had more success without the chain.

 

On the other hand, I third RDM in that I don't really believe that Hailey would think my "come" + treat is more compelling than the squirrel who may be across the drive.

 

And I also agree that the user is the point of focus. (Someone mentioned this on page 1). I don't like prongs and I did experiment with an e-collar. I didn' t like the way that Hailey got strangely quiet after using it. Does it give them really really bad headaches?

 

I'm also going to try the back up technique that Rebecca describes above.

[MrSnappy]

It's pretty cute to see them all lined up when the tennis ball goes "out of bounds".

 

I can achieve that same effect by throwing a tennis ball onto the road. All four dogs come to a screeching halt and lie down at the curb. You can't even get them to step off the curb by tugging on their leashes until you give them the magic command. They'll fight you - they know the rules.

 

But when there's a squirrel, all bets are off and Woo is gone like a shot. There have been too many close calls for me. I have tried the long line, I have tried cookies, I have tried the clicker, I have tried throttling (okay not really, but I have REALLY wanted to sometimes) and frankly, if an e-collar is going to keep him from DYING, I have zero regrets.

 

And it's ONLY Woo, BTW ... the other dogs like a good squirrel chase now and then but they can be called off.

 

RDM

[BustopherJones]

But when there's a squirrel, all bets are off

Same with Annie and Missy. The difference lies in the fact that Annie is trying to herd the squirrel, while Missy is on the attack. I had the same problem with a deer that was meandering down our driveway one morning; the dogs took off as if shot out of a cannon, and I had to chase them down to bring them back.

[red dog fan]

there is no way i could chase sawyer down unfortunately. Its quicker to get in the jeep and start searching.

[HighDesertSpice]

Then there was the squirrel that handled Hailey. It worked its way down one tree, scampered to and up the next--with a pause in the middle at ground level to scold Hailey; then repeated this for about 4 trees down it's little tree path......Hailey just just stood there and watched incredulously.

[Black Watch Debatable]

About a week of just walking back and forth and I can drape my long line over my shoulder.

 

I knew I'd use this photo someday:

 

 

That's Haley Howard at the Zamora trial this past February. She had five or six dogs walking along on lead behind her, all perfectly behaved --- if I remember right, for a while she had all the leads tucked into her back pocket.

[PSmitty]

Where's that little bowing down, "we're not worthy" emoticon? Color me impressed!