blackacre Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Sam my friend, I can't think why, but I can't help but detect a whiff of irony in your admiring post. And Terry, unless you're prepared to grovel and abase yourself in the most sycophantic manner possible, you're not getting your rig across that monstrous bridge. Simple. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Thats not irony yer gettin a whiff of, take my word on that! Course it could be Buff as I am typing this I just looked out my window and he is depositing some more of your irony in my yard! Damn I crack myself up...ha! Hey Ter, if you want anyone to recognize you in the one name list you have to spell it correctly... TER. and Terry to your not so good friends...or people you want to make cry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Moment of inspiration: you, Sam can drive TER across the bridge. Hey, you're going that way anyway, right? She's a scintillating conversationalist, I promise you, no buff-crap. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Andrea, you're right that he first used it in Eminent Dogs (although I waffled about the date because I think that section of the book had previously appeared in The Atlantic Monthly). You're wrong that he used it about Brits, though. He's talking about a Blue Ridge SDT at Ethel Conrad's. Here's the context: It is bizarre to see a broad-chested American rancher--in boots, a Western shirt, enormous Stetson--waving a Scottish shepherd's crook and urging his dog to "Lie doon, Mon. Laaddie, lie doon." The Big Hats--that's what the top handlers are called. I can think of other adjectives you could use, but not sycophantic. Sam, if Andrea starts to give you a hard time, just draw her into a wager about how to spell connoisseur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Eileen Stein:Sam, if Andrea starts to give you a hard time, just draw her into a wager about how to spell connoisseur. Hah! Very good. Must've been thinking in French. From the verb, connaitre, to know. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Ah yes, but you lapsed into new French, whereas the derivation is through Old French, from the Latin cognoscere, to know. Doncha hate when that happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Merde! A big hat is someone who, no matter what dog he or she is running, you can be sure that the porta-potty is empty. And no matter how bad you have to go and how long you've been waiting for the green flag to appear on the door, you decide you can hold it to see how the run goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Well, guess I better weigh in here as I was the one to send the private post to Denise and "give her an example of a Big Hat who started out in AKC obedience" and who Denise does not view as such. Before reading all of your comments and observations I would have used Charlie's definition. After reading through your comments and observations I think Sam put it best. Of course, my personal definiton is "any one who knows more then I" - and that - also by definition, would be just about EVERYONE. Sam, Bracken is this very moment sleeping in my kitchen. I can't wait until I'm home during daylight and can work her for the first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I'm sure Bracken can't wait either. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 OMG GUYS! I didnt even graduate from HIGH SCHOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL... Take it easy on us lowly simpletons...sheesh! LOL I will drive Miss Terry anywhere she wants to go and will INSIST ON IT if it is ANYWHERE in the vacinity of my farm or fence! Hey Deb, Way cool on Bracken! Sure hope it works out for you!!!! I expect to see her at the shedding clinic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillTerry Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Sam, You are a gem. (note the 3 letter word that even us simpletons can understand) I don't remember hitting anything at your house when I was there last. Just took out that big trash barrel on the way to Tommy and Florence's trial. (They had it sitting to close to the road anyway.) I will be that big S word (that the A. Lady used to impress us) to anyone who will drive me over that BBBBBIIIIIIGGGGG bridge. I think that I need to be especially grovelling to Robin if she is going to fair Sher's as she may be a person not already driving a big rig across the BBBBBAAAAAAADDDDDDD bridge. I have no pride when it comes to getting across bridges. I think that it will be harder for me to find someone to drive me back across it on the way home! Thanks you A. for so sweetly reminding me two months in advance of the bridge. It gives me an entire 60 days to obsess. I will share my angst with you daily, dear friend, until you beg for relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Total Buff Crap Batman, I had forgotten about that DAMN bridge....UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Dog Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 In my mind "big hat" status isn't defined exclusively by trialing. I'm sure we all know people who are excellent stockmen and who have trained their dogs to do just about anything asked of them but, for one reason or another, aren't into the national trialing scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Absolutely true, and I'm sure some of them are equal in ability to Big Hats, but does that mean they ARE Big Hats? I think of Big Hat as pretty much confined to top triallers, if only because it's hard for others to become well known enough to be thought of as Big Hats. But maybe that's a minority view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Nope sorry I agree, Big Hat to me is a trialing specific term.... If you cant smell the testosterone (or estrogen) as they go to the post, it just aint the real thing. I must add though that I agree with Charlie, the best big hats are the ones who havent forgotten where they came from and always conduct themselves well and have a good time doing it. You just cant fake the electricity in the air when they are really laying down a smoking run..Nothing like it. Course then I am a self confessed trialing addict and a testosterone junkie to boot...wonder if there is a twelve step program for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yep, i agree, it's a trialing specific term too. Easy enough to be a big hat in a small pond, and it don't get much smaller than on your own farm. I sure as heck could win the Finals if only they'd hold it on my place...LOL! When you have a great run at a trial and find yourself sitting high up in the placings, and then you look through the list of folks still to run, the Big Hats are the ones you go ahead and count as finishing above you because they do so well, so consistently, on any day, on any sheep. Far different than doing well on home sheep or even running on sheep from one area in the country all the time. Just ask us poor little hats/hatless ones from the east who traveled to the Finals last year and got our butts kicked by those western sheep. Our eastern big hats managed to be right there at the end though. Of course those of us who are testosterone junkies plan to work on our hat size and get back out there for a rematch! I think Sam hit it on the head with the first name idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 I don't think "Big Hat" is a particularly serious term, when you come right down to it. And I certainly don't think it connotes any type of moral worth in a larger social sense. There are some Big Hats who command respect for their character and ethics, and some who don't. AFAIK, it just means people who are the top rank of stockdog handling--the best consistently over a sustained period of time. The heavyweights. Who is a big hat? People we know by their first name. Who do you know by their first names? Big hats. >> No more than any definition would be ("Who do you stay out of the portapotty to watch? . . ."). Madonna isn't a big hat. And a couple of handlers come to mind whose first name is known enough to cause people's eyes to roll when it's mentioned, but they are not big hats. Sam's definition works because it's not just people we know by their first name -- it's people whose ability and accomplishments in the sheepdog world are so great that even if only their first name is mentioned, we know who is meant. ***** To stray from the subject a little, Margaret raised an interesting question earlier, in her comment about "red diaper babies." Seems to me it's a bit surprising how few second-generation sheepdog trialers there are. Kent comes to mind, of course, and Cheryl Jagger-Williams (thanks to a face-saving private reminder) but not many others -- or is my disintegrating memory letting me down yet again? I wouldn't really expect us to have any dynasties like the Longtons over here, but isn't it a little surprising that so few big-time trialers have kids who grow up to be trialers? I wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Margaret, To most Big Hat = Top Trialers/Handlers. That's the way I meant the question. While I respect people who are like you describe, and while they may be people I admire for all the reasons you state, I don't consider them Big Hats unless they meet the top trialer definition. People I admire in the sheepdog world may or may not be Big Hats. However, like the old farm dog vs trial dog thing, I think people/dogs that are actually out there walking the walk should get recognition for their success. A lot of people don't seem to understand the dues that must get paid to be admitted to the elite list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yay Denise! I was hoping you'd post. Yes, Big Hats are ones who've walked the walk, not just talked the talk like so many of the instant experts we find, who talk a good game but never bring it to the field and chance having their hat size measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Oh god, now we have to have our heads measured too when we go out onto the field. The pressure is just too much. I can just hear the questions at the handlers meeting, "which way am I supposed to wrap the measuring tape around my head, clockwise or counter-clockwise?" Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 And if i do it wrong, do i unwind? :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue in France Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Interesting to note that Don McCaig used the term first in a book about dogs and handlers in Britain. Yet the term is never used anywhere except in the US. I have never heard anyone from the US refer to a top European handler as a Big Hat though I will stand corrected. I was at a trial in Texas last year and spotted Ralph Pulfer. He had spent a lot of time in Sheepdog-L over the yers I have been reading it and has given me a lot of good advice. I always read whatever he offered and I never found his advice to be wrong. Yet when I told him how grateful I was for all his timeeven though he didn't know I existed except as a name on a message he was quite surprised...even a bit shy about it. To me a Big Hat (gleaned through American references to such) are those who not only have a natural talent for handling dogs and sheep (not necessariy in that order) and are single-minded enough to compete, modest enough to take the knocks and keep learning, and generous enough to give advice when asked. Their naturally quiet attitude which allows them to communicate with animals is accompanied by a natural grace around people. And yes, I'd drop anything I was doing to watch the skills they have learned through years of working with dogs and stock. They are the masters of their chosen craft. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Sue, Do you mean Red Oliver? I don't think Ralph has computer. Might be the reason he seemed "surprised and shy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue in France Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 OMG!! Of course it was Red Oliver!! My apologies. See...single names can be confusing!! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Trialing is a competition. Big hats = those who whup up on the rest of us every weekend. Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.