Big Hats

[Sue in France]

Margaret, if that is what you come away with from the discussion you haven't read properly. Where on earth did you get that idea? Didn't you read that to call trialling a sport in GB is in extremely poor taste? And don't try it on the continent either..;there are too many Real Farmers who do very well in European trials will kick your ass on the way out if you do.

 

Sue

[Sue in France]

Bye Margaret.

 

Sue

[Deacon Dog]

Originally posted by Shoofly:

Easy enough to be a big hat in a small pond, and it don't get much smaller than on your own farm.

Agreed if you're talking about tens or maybe even a few hundred acres but not thousands and not a person that works many locations and types of sheep and/or cows. I was admiring the run of one such person, and one of the "big hats" Sam mentions said "don't let anyone tell you this person and his dogs aren't world class."

 

Not that I care about the semantics, just talking about a level of respect.

 

Margaret has a valid point. I don't see how one can reconcile trialing itself as "walking the walk," but it's not a sport because it's a display of real work.

[Denise Wall]

Margaret and Tony (respectively):

 

So big hats are equivalent to top athletes and trialing is a sport?

 

I don't see how one can reconcile trialing itself as "walking the walk," but it's not a sport because it's a display of real work

 

Big Hat is a trialing term. I don't understand how using a trialing term (Big Hats) to denote success in trialing ("walking the walk" in the context of trialing) makes trialing a sport.

 

Saying someone is a not a Big Hat doesn't mean they aren't someone people can look up to or admire or think they are a good stockperson or dog trainer, etc. Big Hat means they are a top trialer.

 

When I asked what people's definition of Big Hat was, I was expecting something like, has won Meeker or the finals or has been in the top twenty at the finals or something on that order, having to do with trials.

 

I wasn't trying to demean non trialers or define trialing. I was just asking a question about who people consider top trialers. I guess I should have been more clear.

 

The trial vs farm dog reference was meant for those who say their dog could go out and run those trial courses and be one of the best, if only they had time to go. Maybe. But you only get credit if you actually do it.

[Deacon Dog]

I thought the original question asked for a personal definition. Sorry I'm unfamiliar with the lexicon of trialing terms and for the interruption.

[Shoofly]

Hey Tony -

 

I don't consider your responses an interruption, we're just trying to answer the question.

 

Regarding what you said:

I don't see how one can reconcile trialing itself as "walking the walk," but it's not a sport because it's a display of real work.

 

I think the thing is that trialing is a subset of real work, a highly precise microcosm of real work, performed under high pressure with high standards. It's one thing to send a dog out to bring home the flock at home, on ground that you know (or even don't) and the goal is just that - getting them home (fast, slow, straight in, around the pond, whatever). Now add on doing it in front of a crowd, and a judge, and require the most perfect pace and straightest lines. It's a whole other thing to add those requirements to your and your dog's jobs. Now add on driving, penning and shedding, all done to the same standards. Trialing is a competition, based on real work, that's all there is to it. Lots of dogs can bring home the flock (real work), but not all handler/dog teams are capable of the beauty we see when a "big hat" and his seasoned Open dog are on the trial field.

[cgt]

I might add to (or maybe just emphasize from) Robin's comments that a non-trialer easily underestimates the additional difficulty caused by taking your dog to a strange place and asking it to work as perfectly as possible on the first go with a bunch of completely new sheep, which even may never have been worked by dogs. In my relatively limited experience, this alone is a good test of the true worth of a dog (and the putative big hat!). While all dogs work better at home, some dogs clearly make the transition to new places/sheep better than others. It almost seems genetic, although this would appear to be a very complex trait.

 

charlie torre

[juliepoudrier]

Just to add a note of levity to this whole discussion: I think Sam's definition is really her way of avoiding having to spell all those last names correctly! (Sorry, Sam, I couldn't resist, given the numerous vocabulary and spelling discussions y'all seem to have here....)

 

J.

[Bill Fosher]

Robin wrote:

I sure as heck could win the Finals if only they'd hold it on my place...LOL!

 

I could too, but there'd have to be an additional stipulation. If they held it at my place and didn't tell anyone.

[Shoofly]

Bill -

 

LOL!

 

I'd have to add another stipulation for myself -- self judging. :eek:

[tucknjill]

Why do you think I dont go by Samantha, I would have to look it up every time I tried to spell my own name..sheesh!