Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I took Tess and Kipp in for checkups and Kipp's shots yesterday. All is well, except Tess is terrified of the vet. This is nothing new for her, but it is distressing for everyone. Kipp did great. He loves anyone with food. I will have to work a lot more with Tess on accepting friendly strangers. I am getting that book Help For Your Fearful Dog so maybe there will be some things in there that will be useful. Anyway, I asked about the lepto vaccine for my two and my vet said she does not recommend it for dog owners who are "leash-happy" and who do not actually do a great deal of work outside like hunting or herding or whatever. She said it was highly treatable if you catch it early. She said that my dogs (based on the list of activities I gave her) would not be likely to get it, and if they did, I would spot the symptoms so early (and take them into the vet office ASAP) that it would be easily treated. I sure hope that information is correct. I was very concerned based on the stories some here have shared, but my vet recommended against it for my indoor-living, non-working dogs. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 That's the impression (reduced vaccination) I got from prior threads and from what my vet recommends. You may wish to search as we did have recent thread about this topic. After Denise Wall's good dog (Mick, I think) came down with lepto and became seriously ill, she posted to inform others of the dangers of this disease, particularly when it isn't diagnosed quickly or presenting classic symptoms that allow quick and easy diagnosis. I understand that dogs that work a lot around stock, in woods and fields, in natural water (lakes, ponds, stock tanks, mud holes, etc.) are more at risk and may benefit from the 4-way Lepto vaccine. There are other strains but the 4-way, I believe, covers the most common. I had just chosen to go to every third year vaccinating with Lepto, etc., as my vets had just come around to this way of thinking. Their practice is, by and large, pets and not working dogs. Denise's story changed my mind, and I talked to my vet who checked it out, and agreed it made sense to vaccinate them. I took all the young working dogs in (and paid a real premium as we'd already had the yearly exams and tests, and now had to pay for another visit for all) and had them given this shot. If nothing else, it gave me some peace of mind. I think that, if my dogs were pets, largely on lead, not jumping into every body of water and tank they see, not running through pastures, fields, and woods, etc., I would forego the Lepto shot. If I were you, I'd take my vet's advice. I am sure others will chime in with more accurate and appropriate advice. Best wishes in making the right choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Lepto is a bacterium (6+ serovars or sub types) and vaccines for bacteria have durations of immunity of not more than 1 year. There are two types of Lepto vaccines; the older ones good for 2 serovars and newer ones good for 4 serovars. The 2 serovars have been added due to increased infections due to these serovars. From Denise Wall Lepto heads up Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I don't get the sense that there is a consensus on this. Around here it seems to be 50/50 with vets. Most do feel this is not a vaccine to give to puppies because of a higher rate of reactions. My Lhasa had a reaction to it as a young adult and no longer can receive it. In contrast to what your vet said about easily treating Lepto, my vet told me that it often goes misdiagnosed and by the time kidneys and liver shut down, it can be too late to help the dog. I'm very leash happy, though there are a few places my dogs run loose. One vet told me dogs can get it in the backyard if raccoons, possums, skunks wander through. I don't know about that. I do know that lepto scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 think that, if my dogs were pets, largely on lead, not jumping into every body of water and tank they see, not running through pastures, fields, and woods, etc., I would forego the Lepto shot. If I were you, I'd take my vet's advice.My dogs are pets. We do have a fair number of coyotes here, along with raccoons, etc. I did ask about that. My vet lives here on this island, I think, and was aware of only one case ever here. It was a GSD. It was in the paper and they made a huge deal out of it. But they never mentioned whether the dog was a pet or a working dog, or whether the dog had free range on 50 acres with a pond or what. That dog was treated at the same practice where I take my dogs. I also freak out over a sniffle or whatever (and my vet knows this), so if my dogs got any symptom, of anything, they would be at the vet's office the next day. That hypervigilance of mine may also may be why she recommended against it. Although we did manage to go an entire YEAR without visiting the vet. And I don't count yesterday because it was a well exam for both of them. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy bob Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I live in the same part of the country as Allie. I asked my vet about the newer Lepto vacc. that is now available and she said it does not give protection against the strain of Lepto we have seen in this area. But reading Mark's post about the four serovars in the new vacc. I'm wondering if perhaps the vet was not as well informed as I had hoped. I have had terrible experiences with several veterinarians in years past until I found this one. Now I'm worried again. How does one find the facts and not just someone's opinion that one only knows from online? Oh, and information that the layperson can understand would be great. By the way, as I understand it, Lepto was a problem on Vashon Island. muddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Not to scare anybody but when I brought Mick in my vet said she had recently seen four cases from my area (middle NC) and they were all pet dogs who presumably got it while in their fenced-in back yard. Also, don't be so sure you'll notice the symptoms in time. Anybody who knows me will testify to my hypervigelence. I thought I was being over-reactive at first but my dog went from fine to near death in hours. Another day and he would not have made it. Muddy Bob, who wants facts and "not just someone's opinion that one only know's from online" here is the best, most comprehensive link I found in my searches on this topic: http://www.vetmedpub.com/vetmed/data/artic...331/article.pdf Hope this helps. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 When I was in Philadelphia, I liked to follow the University of Pennsylvania Vet School's recommendations on vaccinations. I don't like to vaccinate my dogs more than necessary, and the Penn protocol is pretty conservative. Even so, they recommend a yearly lepto vaccine in areas where lepto is endemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy bob Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Thank you Denise. That was indeed helpful. Now I see that there are more than four serovars and that it is possible our lepto problem out here would not have been prevented by the vaccine available. I guess I will remain confident in my vet. muddy P.S. I hope your dog is recovering well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy bob Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Just wanted to add that Mark did say there were six serovars not four and that was careless reading on my part. Muddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Muddy, You read it correctly; Denise reminded me that there were more than 4 and I corrected my post. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan M. & Skipper, Annie and Ben Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Allie, you and I live fairly close to each other. For most vet things I use Fidalgo Animal Medical Center. When my dogs were in this July for check-ups and titers, the vets there strongly recommended that my dogs get the new lepto vaccine. My dogs train on sheep at various farms, but largely they are house dogs, too. I get titers run on my dogs annually and don't over vaccinate. Based on my vets' recommendations, and that they said several dogs in the area did get lepto this year, I went ahead and had my dogs vaccinated with the new vaccine. The vaccine was well tolerated by each of my 3 dogs and my daughter's 2 as well. I don't know if this helps you in any way. A few weeks after their vaccinations, my dogs and I were at a trial on Whidbey, then back there a few days later for a private lesson with Pat Shannahan (which was fabulous, by the way! ! ) My dogs were/are healthy and I am comfortable with my decisions about their vaccinations at this time. It's hard to know what to do when information changes and recommendations vary. Good luck and take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thank you, everyone. I think I will call my vet and get them the vaccine. I did not want to get Kipp 3 shots in one day, so this works out well anyway. He got the rabies and the distemper/whatever one on Tuesday, and I think next week I will call and make an appointment for them to get the lepto. Does anyone know if it is a series of shots? The brochure they had at my vet clinic indicated it was 2 shots a week or two apart. Or should they only need one? Or should I be quizzing them about the specific name of the vaccination they have and ask around at other clinics to see what they have? There is one other clinic near me here in Clinton. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 If you will be giving the new L4 vaccine and they've not received it previously, the protocol is two shots the first year and then annual (not every 3 years) boosters. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted October 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks, Mark. My vet recommends every 3 years for the other shots, but since we go in every year for checkups, it is not like we would be going out of our way for the lepto shot. Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted October 6, 2006 Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 Allie, I too checked with our vet here and because she had seen 5 cases this year and because we live in the woods and on the lake all three were vacinated and will be yearly now. Even Briar, my one kidney wonder who is also on pheno for seizures got the vacine, vet said lepto would be way worse on her one kidney and pheno'd liver than the shot would. When they were city dogs in calif their vet didn't see the need there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie+Tess&Kipp Posted October 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2006 We go in Monday at 2:00 p.m. for the shots. Then a month later for the booster, and then they will get them yearly after that. Neither of my dogs has ever had a reaction to a shot. The most was when Kipp was a little groggy for an hour after his shots on Tuesday. Tess really wigged out for her checkup, but if I take her in only when they are ready, she won't have all that anxiety build-up time in the waiting area, I hope! Poor dog. Before next year's checkup appointment, I hope to be working towards her CGC. Ha ha. Well, I figure any practice is better than none! Thanks again everyone. I really was thinking I'd rather they have the shots, especially Kipp, who licks, chews, and eats everything he can grab when we are out walking or whatever. :eek: Allie + Tess & Kipp http://weebordercollie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 My dog was given the lepto vaccine last week, when we went for his yearly shots (rabies, corona, distemper, hep para parvo). The vet asked me if I want to give it to the dog, and when I heard it could be passed through standing bodies of water, I thought about all the lakes that he loves to swim in, and of course I said yes. We're going in 3 weeks again for the booster. I say much better safe than sorry. P.S. They said the shots might make him sleepy. Ha! Went staight home to a round of frisbee of 45 minutes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 I do not vaccinate for Lepto, and I suppose I am in the minority here. But I will say that one of my dogs did come down with Lepto and did recover just fine. The incidences of Lepto in our area have not risen nor fallen in 30 odd years and remain pretty well static, and not too common. I did notice that the local veterinary community started pushing Lepto vaccines again at about the same time the drug companies started a marketing campaign about the reappearance of Lepto though I have two vets, a holistic vet and an allopathic vet. Both consider the Lepto vaccine to cause more harm than good. My holistic vet in particular feels that the Lepto vaccine is responsible for immuno-related problems in dogs like Lupus and similar. I have 4 dogs, two whom have been vaccinated for Lepto in their lifetimes and two whom have not. One of the vaccinated dogs is the one who contracted Lepto. Two of the the 3 strains he tested with positive antibodies for were not covered in the available vaccine. He also has an immune issue that has destroyed his elbows. The other lepto-vaccinated dog has lupus. My other two dogs have no immune problems and have never been vaccinated for it either. Keeping in mind though, I have also never given a kennel cough vaccine and my dogs have never had kennel cough either. I have had fosters from shelters come in coughing blood and leaking flourescent snot and still my dogs have never caught it. I am just not a big believer in vaccinating my dogs up the wahoo and I am not convinced we are always doing them a favour when we do. We also don't vaccinate our rescues for Lepto, but we also only vaccinate puppies for distemper and parvo, since the remainder of the combo vaccine seems to be a rather huge marketing scam. All of the vets we use in rescue are very agreeable with our vaccination protocol and agree with it. I realize vaccinating is a personal thing. But I don't and will never give the Lepto vaccine. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I live in southern CA. I talked to my holistic vet this morning, and since my dogs are around cattle every day, and we travel all over the US trialling and working, she recommeded it for my dogs that travel. However, she does not carry any vaccines. I have also talked to my 2 primary care vets, and they do not carry it either, since this area is not a biggie for Lepto. Does anyone know of a vet in southern CA who does carry it? Thanks, Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Anna, Depending upon how many dogs you plan to vaccinate, it could be cost effective to buy the vaccine from a pet supply company. It is only sold in 25 dose packages; however, dogs starting on this new vaccine will require 2 shots this year. Do what we did; find another handler who is willing to split the 25 dose package (12 dogs + 1 extra dose) with you. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBC Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 In my experience with vets that don't carry a vaccine that a client wants, they'll usually order it special for you. It might up the cost of the vaccine, since they might not be able to sell all of them. But the vet should be able and willing to do that for you. Or if your dogs will be getting the combo (distemper, parvo, etc) vaccine, they could just order the combo WITH Lepto in it. Here in Baton Rouge, Lepto is still a problem, and with all the places my boys go and all the dogs they're exposed to, they're almost definitely exposed to Lepto. At the vet I work for, we do a 3 combo booster series for puppies, but Lepto is only in #2 and #3. #1 is a combo vaccine without the Lepto. For canine annuals, we use the same vaccine we use for #2 & #3 puppy vax with the Lepto. We actually lost a patient to Lepto just about a week ago. She was only about 2-3 years old, a hunting beagle, and was vaccinated at home. The primary vet on the case started thinking Lepto early on and treatment was started while we waited for the test results, but the little beagle was still too far along and didn't survive. Both vets admitted that it was lucky Lepto was even guessed that early since it's often missed. As it turns out, the other dogs at the home have also tested positive too. Since they're hunting dogs, it's not surprising that if one was exposed, they all were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 The key with the lepto positive hunting dogs would be which serovar was present and which serovars were vaccinated against. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thanks, Mark. I'm working on it...there are a number of us who use the same vet in our small town, all with BCs who travel quite a bit. Good suggestion, Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Both my holistic and allopathic vets are completely against it. The holistic vet told me "it's the most reaction prone vaccine on the market". I discussed the situation with another vet who is a dog training acquaintence and who uses her terriers for true go-to-ground hunting (in Canada and Northeast) for raccoons and groundhogs. Now she of all people would have greatest risk to her dogs - and I know she does not take that lightly. Her answer to whether to vaccinate was: "never, no way!" The reactions she had witnessed in client dogs that insisted on having it done have horrified her. The research the vets provided me with indicated that no matter what the risk of the area the vaccine was a not recommended for puppies, dogs under 25 lbs, or any dog with any other immune compromising issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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