Weaning dog off treats for obedience

[drharps]

My dog is amazingly attentive and above average obedient when i have a bag of treats on hand. If I don't have the bag, she'll listen only if there's nothing else stimulating her. For instance, if I'm in the house and she starts barking and I tell her to come over to sit next to me and be quiet, she fully ignores me. The second I get the bag of treats, she comes and sits next to me and will work to stay quiet. 

She is six. Suggestions on getting better obedience without treats being present? 

[Journey]

She has you well trained  You seem to only be pulling out the high volume reward when you have been blown off first. Maybe try to get the HVT first, then call her off the barking or whatever she may be doing. Retrain her brain that you have the reward and blowing you off isn't going to pay off for her. She's learning to blow you off until you have the treat, reshape this.

[D'Elle]

I would put treats in my pocket and have them there all the time, and reward the dog every time that she obeys me. If she doesn't come away from the barking, I'd go get her and bring her next to me and tell her to lie down and no treat would be given, but if she comes she gets a treat every time. I'd do this for a month or so and then start rewarding frequently but  randomly so that she wouldn't know if she'd get a treat or not on any given occasion, but she'd always get praise and petting. Then, slowly over the course of several weeks i would wean that down to fewer times when the dog gets the treat. But it is never a bad idea to have treats in your pocket and reward occasionally even if there's no problem getting her to come without them. Intermittent reward, once the behavior is corrected or learned, can be even more effective than reward every time. I usually have a few charlie bears in a pocket so I can use them now and then.

[drharps]

Thanks everyone. Will give it a try. She has learned that my left pocket carries the treats, so anytime I reach in my pocket, she tends to react positively. I'll use that to my advantage. 

[gcv-border]

Personally, once the dog understands the command, I start mixing things up to proof the behavior. And that would include switching up where the treats are kept. I would hide the treats. Or toy — for my toy- driven dog, I will hide a toy under my jacket or behind my back when he isn’t looking. Then, when he completes the command ( with no reinforcer in sight), I will whip out the toy and have a party. Thus, he has obeyed my command without the expectation of a reward (because the toy was hidden, he is not primed to do the behavior only because he knows that a toy is waiting).

[terrecar]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:26 AM, D'Elle said:

I would put treats in my pocket and have them there all the time, and reward the dog every time that she obeys me. If she doesn't come away from the barking, I'd go get her and bring her next to me and tell her to lie down and no treat would be given, but if she comes she gets a treat every time. I'd do this for a month or so and then start rewarding frequently but  randomly so that she wouldn't know if she'd get a treat or not on any given occasion, but she'd always get praise and petting. Then, slowly over the course of several weeks i would wean that down to fewer times when the dog gets the treat. But it is never a bad idea to have treats in your pocket and reward occasionally even if there's no problem getting her to come without them. Intermittent reward, once the behavior is corrected or learned, can be even more effective than reward every time. I usually have a few charlie bears in a pocket so I can use them now and then.

This! This right here is the protocol used in operant conditioning, and it works.

[D'Elle]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:50 AM, terrecar said:

This! This right here is the protocol used in operant conditioning, and it works.

Operant conditioning can work wonders.

I do Musical Canine Freestyle, and I train all of the fancy things my dogs do simply using operant conditioning. You can shape any behavior you want using that technique. A really clever dog like a border collie will learn it fast, but almost every dog will learn that way even if some are slower.

I am currently training my new puppy, a crazy little terrier mix, and operant conditioning is amazing with him. He's learning as fast as any border collie I ever trained, and faster than some. I have to wonder where he got that brain of his because he sure wasn't carefully bred!