Tommy Coyote Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Beneful is not a good dog food. And I have customers that feed this stuff. http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/24/us/dog-food-lawsuit/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Innocent till proven guilty wasn´t it....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Have you seen these packages? They have the most beautiful pictures of raw fruits and veggies and raw meat. And then you read the ingredients. And the food is shaped like veggies and meat and it's dyed bright coiors. It's all corn. But it's cheap and the package looks good so people buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I've seen the articles about this for a couple days now. It'll be interesting to see how it works out. Probably will be dismissed, as Purina has loads of money to fight it. But the fact that three dogs owned by the same people but were living in different houses had the same Dx will be interesting. The dyes alone in Beneful make me cringe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Dog Food Advisor gives it 1 star. Calls it a plant based kibble. Mainly corn and chicken by-products from what's left of the chicken after all the good stuff is gone. It's rated right along with Pedigree and Old Roy. I know some people on the board aren't crazy about the accuracy of the Dog Food Advisor but when a food has the lowest rating I don't want any part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Have you seen these packages? They have the most beautiful pictures of raw fruits and veggies and raw meat. And then you read the ingredients. And the food is shaped like veggies and meat and it's dyed bright coiors. It's all corn. But it's cheap and the package looks good so people buy it. That does not not make it dog poison. It is not a food I would give my dogs, but the claims in that law suit says it kills dogs. I would like to see such a heavy claim proven before believing it. That´s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Beneful is in the top 10 lists of foods I would NOT feed. And the packaging is highly deceptive. That said, three dogs getting sick in the same house is hardly proof that the food is poisonous. They could have encountered an outdoor toxin or bug of some sort. Purina runs the most some of the most extensive testing and food trials in the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 It doesn't say it in the article linked above, but the 3 dogs weren't in the same house. According to this article http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lawsuit-claims-purinas-beneful-poisoning-killing-dogs-n312176, the owner's home was undergoing renovations and the 3 dogs were living in 3 separate homes. The owner claims that the only common denominator was that the dogs were eating the same food. I obviously don't have enough information to arrive at a conclusion, but it's not unusual for one brief news article to be missing some of the details, as seems to be the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 One claim is that propylene glycol killed the dogs; propylene glycol is used as a carrier for some IV solutions used in dogs (and other animals). Ethylene glycol, not propylene glycol, is the automotive antifreeze. Micotoxins are readily found when testing the finished food which should be performed. The LD50 of propylene glycol is 18,500mg/kg body weight for comparison: LD50 of water is 90,000mg/kg LD50 of sucrose is 29,000mg/kg Vitamin C is 11,900mg/kg I think this comes under the category of people jumping to the conclusion that correlation proves causation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I always get tempted by Purina's packaging and their commercials make it seem so healthy. But then I read the ingredients, and go "heck, no!" with a little more colorful language. I can't even handle a mostly vegetarian diet, so I don't expect Kieran to. That said, those people should rule everything else out if they haven't before jumping to a lawsuit. People are so sue-crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway61 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I know some people on the board aren't crazy about the accuracy of the Dog Food Advisor but when a food has the lowest rating I don't want any part of it. Don't want it either. I don't need proof it kills or doesn't, I can read an ingredient list. The top four ingredients for Beneful are ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour. Not the nutritional hero I want to bring home to my dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 You're just comparing it to the wrong foods. Beneful is plenty healthy when compared to, say, Moist 'n Meaty... (yes, that remark is dripping with sarcasm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Whenever I go to any pet supply shop I always wonder who is buying all the off the shelf cheap crap. There's so much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Chicken by-product (or other named meat by-products) gets a bad rap by kibble reviewers probably due to current North American biases against eating anything but muscle meat (few want to eat liver, heart, kidney, tripe, etc) and due to effective premium kibble marketing schemes (like Blue Buffalo). As Tommy Coyote described it "chicken after all the good stuff [muscle meat] is gone". What is left is the stuff that raw feeders want to feed their dogs (bone, tendon, organs, etc) plus what many people choose as treats for their dogs (rawhide, bully sticks, chew hooves, large bones, etc). This older article by Hilary Watson discusses the nutrient value differences (or lack thereof) between meal and byproduct meal : poultry meal vs poultry byproduct meal. Hilary Watson: Pet Nutritionist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyfalk Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I can attest to dogs doing poorly on Beneful. So many owners are tricked by the clever advertising and think they are feeding a high quality product. I'm most offended by all of the artificial additives rather than the by-products and grains. (NOTE, I do frequently feed raw and grain free). Yeah, Beneful is the canine equivalent of McDonald's...but I don't see this suit going far because it is lacking a solid scientifically controlled study to support this claim. Maybe it will at least draw some attention to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 There are by products and there are byproducts. The potential problem with byproducts is that you don't know what byproducts are included. Absolutely offal, tendon and bone are perfectly good to feed our dogs. I go out of my way to get offal from a small poultry processor to feed my dogs. These were byproducts that he had previously been throwing away. But if the stories are true -- and I readily admit I don't know if they are or not -- the by products used in some of the cheaper dog foods include things like feathers, which will boost the protein content without providing much in the way of nutrition. I think that, along with the very real ick factor that so many people have about offal and that advertisers capitalized on, is a very big reason why many kibble critics and reviewers are suspicious of non-specific byproduct meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Go read the link I provided; the author indicates "there is poultry meal and then there is poultry meal". She indicates that there are different grades of poultry meal (those for the companion animal feed and those for livestock feed) and some poultry meals are of lower nutritional value than some by-product meals depending upon the supplier and batch. The definition of poultry byproduct meal includes incidental feathers (not enough to change the protein content) not the image of mounds of feathers that so many pet food experts want readers to have. Go read the AAFCO definition. The bottom line is you need to have a level of confidence in the manufacturing processes of the pet food manufacturer you have selected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Nothing new there, Mark. And I'd already read it. Interesting, though, how you're experts are better than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Who do you think will be an expert on pet food manufacturing processes: someone who sits in an office reading ingredient lists and AAFCO definitions someone of has ingredients chemically analyzed for nutrient content someone actually involved with the manufacturing processes etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 The dog's the true expert. I feed mine a brand that doesn't score particularly well on comparison sites and yet it seems good enough for the likes of Aled Owen, Kevin Evans etc. The brand has a varied range and at one time or another my dogs have had most of them and all done well. It's not a high profile brand with a big advertising or packaging budget and is aimed more at those who do something with their dogs rather than the average pet owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I agree, the true test of the quality of dog food (for that dog) is how the dog does on that food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I agree with Bill. Different dogs will do well on different foods. I fed my departed quirky girly Shoshone on home made food, following very precise recipes from someone who receives high praise from the homemade/raw lovers. She looked awful. She lost weight, a scary amount. Her coat was dull and brittle, my very dog-savvy friends told me she did not look well. Fed her that homemade stuff for over 2 months. I switched her back to a medium priced kibble and within 2 weeks her coat and eyes looked better. Another 4 weeks and she was back at a good weight. Ruth and SuperGibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 One claim is that propylene glycol killed the dogs; propylene glycol is used as a carrier for some IV solutions used in dogs (and other animals). Ethylene glycol, not propylene glycol, is the automotive antifreeze. Micotoxins are readily found when testing the finished food which should be performed. The LD50 of propylene glycol is 18,500mg/kg body weight for comparison: LD50 of water is 90,000mg/kg LD50 of sucrose is 29,000mg/kg Vitamin C is 11,900mg/kg I think this comes under the category of people jumping to the conclusion that correlation proves causation. Yes! I have had to explain this to many clients at my vet clinic. Thanks Mark! Bethany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Propylene glycol is the active ingredient in the newer "environmentally friendly" antifreezes that advertise that they are 1/3 as toxic as ethylene glycol based antifreezes. While propylene glycol is used in many medications, such as Ivomec, and other products, they are not given to dogs every day, day in and day out. I really can't think of a good reason for something like that to be in food that is fed every day, if the company has it's way, for life. Just like I can't find a good reason for artificial colors and artificial preservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Just like I can't find a good reason for artificial colors and artificial preservatives. Colors no, other than marketing to the human customers. Preservatives on the other hand is a different matter, there are plenty of good reasons for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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