flyingcircleg Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 So a friend and I have ran livestock together for some years now. We have always used his dogs (he has 4BC's). Anyhow, bought some property about an hour away, so we are splitting our heard, and I picked up a BC pup from my cousin off his cattle ranch. Both parents are working cow dogs. That being said, I got him at 7 weeks old, he is now 9 weeks old. The misses made it apparent to me that he would also be somewhat of a pet, as she said its not fair to have him out in the kennel while my old (14yrs old) lab gets to be inside. Anyways, he has allot of bite, more than I remember with the other BC's when they were pups (though that was about 8 years ago now). I picked up the "Understanding Border Collies" book by Barbara Sykes. In it, the book mentions that the dogs chew tows should remain in his kennel, so it makes a clear distinction to the dog about whats his space (where chewing is aloud) and what is my (the alphas space, where he shouldnt chew). My question on this, is do many of you successfully allow your dogs to have chew toys outside of the crate/kennel? When he isnt allowed to have one, he ends up trying to chew on my labs dog bed. Other than that all is well, hes already potty trained, knows "sit", "come" "go pee" and we are working on "stay" and "lay down". Sorry for the long post, its my first on the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hi there, welcome to the forum! I'll offer my two cents on the subject, and of course it is only my opinion.But here goes: first of all, forget the whole "alpha" balderdash. Forget it. Throw it away. I believe it is unnecessary and easily misused. How on earth is a dog chewing a bone disrespectful (or whatever) of my "alpha" status?What you need to be is a fair, firm, kind, consistent leader and a trustworthy partner to your dog. That's it. If you make sense, if you are fair, if you are clear in what you ask of your pup, the rest will happen. Dominance has little to do with it. Fairness, consistency and clarity do.That's all I'm gonna say about that. As for chew toys - my vote is to let the little guy have 'em wherever he is! If I allow my dog to come hang out in "my" space, why wouldn't I allow him to chew there? I must disagree with Ms Sykes completely, in that respect. So long as he's chewing appropriate things, I see absolutely no harm in it. He's still my willing, biddable partner when we step out the door to work sheep.When my dogs are young, I throw toys (Kongs, Nylabones, rope toys, balls, etc) around the house until it looks like I have a manic toddler living with me. Toys are the things I stuff in their puppy mouths when they take sudden interest in the carpet or chair legs or shoes. Toys are how my pups learn to be honest when outside their crate or pen. Sure, little dude, you can come out to play - but these are the things I want you to play with. Not the cat. Not the TV remote. Not the legs of the end table.So, if your pup is chewing the lab's bed when you give him time outside the crate, I'd just tell him No, move him away and hand him the correct thing to chew. Puppies are GOING to chew. It's what they do. He's teething, for goodness sake! So by giving him appropriate things to chew, I'm making sure he gets to be happy and entertain himself, and I get to keep our household belongings relatively unscathed.By the way, you're welcome to share photos of your new little guy. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks. That was my general thoughty before I started reading this book. Then it went on to tell of how you shouldn't give them chew toys because it encourages chewing... But like you said, Id much rather have him chew on a toy than my couch or boots... Heres a pic of Twitch at 7 weeks old the day I picked him up. Enjoying the sun. 8 weeks old, sleeping with my lab, Chances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I agree with your wife that there's no reason to have him live in a kennel unless you really want him to. My working dogs live in the house and it has no bearing on their work. As for chewing, I agree with everything Gloria said. Puppies chew, so best to have appropriate things to chew wherever puppy is. My advice? Toss that book in the trash. Work to develop a trusting relationship between you and your pup (as Gloria said, clarity and consistency are key), and you'll be well on your way to a great working partnership. He's adorable, by the way. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufftie Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 aww, he's very cute. hope you have a long and happy partnership with him....but this is Twitch! actually, this is the first time I've heard of another dog with his name :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I've been training dogs for over 30 years and when I got my first BC I also got that book. I enjoyed reading it, and laughing at what I think are some of her more ridiculous ideas. I wouldn't raise a stupid dog with her methods and it is certainly unnecessary to treat a BC like they can't understand whose house it is or where there place in life is, if they don't alway walk behind you. I took the 3 or 4 good ideas that she sort of had and made them work for me and threw the rest out. I have taught my dogs to "Follow" on command, but I certainly don't think it is necessary for them to always stay back there. And their toys cover the floor all over the whole house, unless I want them put away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I can't add anything to the great replies you've already had. They're perfect. As is that adorable pup you have. And I love the name! Don't mess Twitch up with the Alpha crap. It's mostly stupid and has been found to be scientifically unsound. Common sense is a much better -- and kinder, fairer -- approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 aww, he's very cute. hope you have a long and happy partnership with him....but this is Twitch! actually, this is the first time I've heard of another dog with his name :-). Ya, I wanted a uncommon name, we generally go for single syllable names because when you have 4 dogs out working its easier to say a quick name followed by the command. Most the names I like were taken by friends BC's (Ace, Stretch, Riot, Glen, Mitch, Cope, Doc, Wyatt, Clyde, Pig). And right when I got him, every time he would sleep his paws would start twitching, so that how he ended up with his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 He is absolutely adorable. What a little fat fluffball! Thanks for sharing him with us. Adorable bright puppies are always welcome here! Twitch. Hee! What a name. ~ Gloria P.S.PINK TUMMY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 My dogs are just pets, but I agree, puppies chew. And they play a lot. It is what they do. I also keep toys throughout the house for a puppy to play with and that I can redirect him to (Quinn was prone to grabbing the oddest things, like framed photos). I think it would be really hard to have a puppy out and behaving nicely without giving him something to do that is sanctioned by you. Twitch is super cute (name is great as well) and sounds like he is settling in very nicely. Welcome and have fun with your wonderful pup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Ya, he was a little rolly polly when I got him, he looks good now, not overly lean, but not round either. Need to get some more current pics of him (2 weeks is old when they grow this fast). I dont relaize him getting bigger because I see him everyday but the misses was out of town for a week and she got back and said he was huge, I was like "really?".... The recall is working well, had to bring my horses up to the house (pasture they were on is gone now; we need rain soooo bad). Anyways, his look was priceless when he saw them, and he snuck under one of the gates into the pasture, my mustang horse doesnt put up with dogs nipping between her legs (shes stomped a couple dogs), so I kinda freaked when he was running towards them. Called him back, and he stopped, turned around and came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Cuute puppeeeee! (Can you tell I have puppyitis?) Welcome to the boards. I agree with Gloria totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Good boy, Twitch! We don't want you getting stomped! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I agree with Gloria too!! I'm crazy about pink puppy tummies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Barbara Sykes - what can I say? Just shows that anyone can call themself an expert. I apologise for her from the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriciag Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 What a cutie! I see you are from Placerville. I'm down the hill in West Sacramento. We adopted a border collie and are having issues that I have posted on the boards. Lots of good advice here. I agree with throwing out the "alpha". We are taking our Logan to the animal behaviorist at UCDavis and there are "pages" of advice. One of them is the alpha myth. I am currently reading an ebook "decoding your dog". I don't know how much good info is in it, but it is very interesting and supports the debunk of that myth. Good luck with Twitch. Such a sweetie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriciag Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Here is a link to an animal behaviorist site. She was originally recommended to me, but I have not been able to contact her. Some good stuff to think about for training. The behaviorist we are taking Logan to follows the same philosphies. www.drsophiayin.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 So its been a little bit since Ive updated the thread. Finally got some free time so figured Id give a quick update and post some pics. The toy and in house training is going excellent, so far (knock on wood) the only fatality we have had is a dirty sock that was too close to his kennel at night (it found it way into the kennel the was way more interesting than any other toys), that was my fault for leaving it within paws reach. Twitch got microchipped and finished all of his shots a couple weeks ago, the vet was impressed that he didnt make a peep when they did the rabies or the chip. As of today hes 4.5 months old. Still likes to sleep with his paws in the air. We also have grown up teeth coming and adult hair on the way as well. Hes getting to be at the gangly stage, his tail is a bit too long legs are getting a little long, and his heads and muzzle are definitely changing. Took him for a short 3 mile hike yesterday (sun was out and it was 70) did extremely well off leash, very well mannered around other dogs that were out for a walk. And he discovered the lake, at first he just put his paws in, so I took off my shoes and walked in to about my knees and he went bolting in when I called him, did great. Though when all his fur was soaked he looked kind of like a drowned rat. Does anybody know what color his coat would be called? Hes not black, and hes alot darker than any red BC i have seen before... Gotta work on laying down, the only way he will do it is if I put my finger on the floor, then he plops down, for some reason wont do it with just a verbal command. All other training so far has gone effortlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 A from of sable maybe? He's adorable! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I was wondering about maybe sable, too, but not sure. Carole Presburg at the Border Collie Museum (http://bordercolliemuseum.org/) may have some ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Looked up some pictures of sable, and I think thats what he is. Mom was a black and white, dad was a red and white... Mom has never thrown a red before out of about 4 liters.. This was the first non black she has ever thrown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I was going to say sable also. My dog started out all black in his black parts and turned sable during the first year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Sable is a color pattern where the individual hair shafts are brown or grey and black striped, so the dog is a different color underneath. This one looks more seal to me, rather than sable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcircleg Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Sable is a color pattern where the individual hair shafts are brown or grey and black striped, so the dog is a different color underneath. This one looks more seal to me, rather than sable. I looked really close at his coat, and his hairs are are one color (so one strand is dark brown almost black, and another strand is reddish) so Im guessing hes seal... I looked at a bunch of pics on this site (http://www.bryningbordercollies.com/Border-Collie-Colours) and he definitely looks like the seal pics, in fact the pics they have of the pup look like a spitting image of Twitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Sable is a color pattern where the individual hair shafts are brown or grey and black striped, so the dog is a different color underneath. True, but not necessarily all over the body. Much of the body can be golden without any shading, or striping, of the hair. A sable will have at least some areas of shading, usually across the shoulders, around the eyes and some on the tail, but it can vary from just a little (like my lurcher Tansy) to quite a lot, making them appear almost black. Carole Presburg has a good description and pictures on her Border Collie Museum site: http://www.bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/Sable/Sable.html. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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