Joe Anne Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Ok...another Rose puppy question. I have pretty much always had my females spayed and males neutered at around 5 months ish. However, my Holistic Vet, is telling me that it would be best to let Rose go in to at the very least 1 heat and preferably 2 with the best of the best about 5 heats! ugh! Reason being adult hormone production. Makes sense to me (1 or 2 max!), but I am really contemplating my choice. Sooooooo that being said, once again I defer to my BC Boards family for sage advice !!!! LOL! I would love to hear you opinions and/or experiences with this issue. Thanks much JoeAnne and BC's Phoenix and Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syncrope Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 *Everyone* will tell you something different. I personally wouldn't let the dog go into heat, since that increases the risk of a good number of diseases and cancers. While I was in the veterinary sciences program, the ideal was "as early as possible." People will tell you to wait because of growth plates etc., and we discussed it thoroughly in class. According to what we learned, an early spay/neuter just means the growth plates close later (often resulting in a taller dog than what would have been), but there was nothing said about growth problems. Our local shelter spays/neuters puppies at 6 weeks (my dog included) and there haven't been any ill consequences we've seen... I *personally* always advocate for an early spay/neuter because in my opinion and from what I've learned, the benefits outweigh the risks. The recovery is always much easier for younger, smaller dogs as well, especially BEFORE there's been any development of said organs. But, anyone else might have different opinions, and this is mine. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't recommend the spay/neuter *after* the first heat cycle, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bordercollies Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Joe Anne, I'm lucky so far, my Boo is nine months old and so far hasn't come into heat yet. I've been putting it off for waaay too long, I'm thankful for the break, because I have an unneutered male dog in the form of her father as part of my pack. This afternoon I noticed her mother taking an unhealthy interest in her backside, so I will be calling my vet on Monday for That appointment. Before she becomes pregnant by her dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Wait until you have her x rays and know that her growth plates are closed at least. Your vet gave you good advise. 5bordercollies - the only way your pup will get pregnant would be due to lack of management. I have both sexes intact and no unwanted litters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 *Everyone* will tell you something different. While I was in the veterinary sciences program, the ideal was "as early as possible." People will tell you to wait because of growth plates etc., and we discussed it thoroughly in class. According to what we learned, an early spay/neuter just means the growth plates close later (often resulting in a taller dog than what would have been), but there was nothing said about growth problems. Our local shelter spays/neuters puppies at 6 weeks (my dog included) and there haven't been any ill consequences we've seen... I agree. You will get a variety of responses - and I am saying wait until growth plates are closed - which may require you to suffer through a heat. I don't have a lot of faith in vet schools to advise on how early spay/neuter would affect the future orthopedic issues of a working dog population. They deal with the average dog - the low-activity, probably slightly overweight (or significantly overweight) pet dog. The major concern (and the soapbox of vet schools) is how to prevent unwanted pregnancies. This has nothing to do with understanding how an early S/N (which is known to prevent growth plate closure thus resulting in leggier dogs and subsequent change in joint angulation) will impact future joint, skeletal and muscular issues of truly athletic working dogs. I think there is some data available which suggests a positive correlation between early S/N and joint issues in athletic dogs (mainly agility dogs have been studied). I think that there is no single answer to the early? or not? question to S/N. The answer will vary depending on the expected future plans for the dog and the tolerance for its owner to deal with hormonal behaviors. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Haven't read all the replies yet, but this issue is being discussed in another thread here right now that you may be interested in. http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35343&hl=vasectomy&do=findComment&comment=444995 A couple good links that may be helpful (as well as a couple more questionable ones.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 My choice would be around 18 m/o for a female (probably 2 heat cycles), 24 m/o for a male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 Syncrope, you said, "I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't recommend the spay/neuter *after* the first heat cycle, though..." Do you mean IMMEDIATELY after that cycle?? That I can understand. But it sounds like you are saying to let the female have no cycles, or more than one. Sorry, just don't get this. And yes, I'm on board with most of the rest of the posts. Just curious about this one statement. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 My choice would be around 18 m/o for a female (probably 2 heat cycles), 24 m/o for a male. I am interested in the reasons for your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 My reasons. First my anecdotal experience with 3 dogs has been that the 2 altered after 2 years of age were much more serious, focused dogs. The one altered at 5 m/o has been goofy and "puppy-brained" for several years. She is 4 now and seems to be finally getting over it. Maybe it was just her nature and would have happened anyway. But I really prefer a more serious dog so my experience has left me biased. Also studies seem to point to the idea that altering after maturity leads to better joint health and a lower overall risk of cancer for males (though with females it lowers some risks of some cancers and increases others). And aesthetically I like a male that looks like a male. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 I prefer 8mos-1 year. or as late as possible before the first heat cycle. this is my experience talking, last time I waited to spay I ended up with a dog that got a mammary tumour and pyometra within 3 months of eachother. scared the crud outa me, I will never ever ever wait again. I have yet to see joint problems in my dogs that were spayed around 8 months, Happy is 13 and could not have healthier bones and joints despite how high impact she has been all her life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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