UKI Agility

[Jumpin Boots]

I just wanted to share that Renoir and I went to our first UKI trial yesterday afternoon. The courses are fun with some European flare and they have great training opportunities. I would highly suggest trying it out sometime, especially if you need to work on something in a trial environment.

[Root Beer]

Sounds like fun!

 

What are their jump height requirements for a Border Collie sized dog?

[mum24dog]

Sounds like fun!

 

What are their jump height requirements for a Border Collie sized dog?

 

What do you call a BC sized dog?

 

If it were up to Greg Derrett it would be 30ins but he has to cater for the demands of his market.

 

Jump heights here -

 

http://www.ukagilityinternational.com/DynamicContent.aspx?PageName=jump+heights

[Jumpin Boots]

Renoir jumped 20 which is the same he jumps in nadac. There were people jumping what looked like his size at 26 inches, but I think they opted to jump higher. The best part was being able to run not for competition where you had 70 secs on course to work whatever you wanted.

[Root Beer]

Thanks for that link! With 22 inches and below being 20, that's what Tessa would jump. And that's her height in CPE, so that's good.

 

I'd eventually like to branch out with her a bit, but am not really interested in AKC or USDAA. UKI might be interesting to try. I don't know if there is any around here, or if there ever will be, but I will definitely keep it in mind!

 

I'm glad they went with the heights demanded by the US market. I'm just not interested in jumping her any higher than 20, even though she actually gets quite a lot of height over the 20 inch jumps. She won't be young forever.

[mum24dog]

I'm just not interested in jumping her any higher than 20

 

Why not? You might find her jumping action and enthusiasm improve if she has to put in a bit of physical effort.

 

Of course that may not be a good idea if the flooring you meet tends to be slippery and unforgiving. I can't judge from videos.

[Root Beer]

Why not? You might find her jumping action and enthusiasm improve if she has to put in a bit of physical effort.

 

Of course that may not be a good idea if the flooring you meet tends to be slippery and unforgiving. I can't judge from videos.

 

I am actually very happy with her jumping action and enthusiasm.

 

Maybe you are thinking of videos that I posted quite a while ago before she had her confidence? I wouldn't change a thing about her jumping now. Yes, we ran at a place recently where the floor was a bit slippery, but usually we run on better surfaces. I really would say that 20 is definitely the right height for her.

[alligande]

I have always wanted to try it but there are no trials in my area.

[Jumpin Boots]

I have always wanted to try it but there are no trials in my area.

That's a bummer, I know it is a growing association so keep your eyes open. I am so excited there are 3 more over the summer close to us

[ChantalB]

Ouuu I've been hearing about uki for a bit, hopefully some pop up around here! Maybe they have already!

[mum24dog]

I am actually very happy with her jumping action and enthusiasm.

 

Maybe you are thinking of videos that I posted quite a while ago before she had her confidence? I wouldn't change a thing about her jumping now. Yes, we ran at a place recently where the floor was a bit slippery, but usually we run on better surfaces. I really would say that 20 is definitely the right height for her.

 

No, the latest ones. She has improved a lot but she still sometimes walks between jumps and she waits for you instead of going on ahead. In the videos she pops over jumps rather than driving over them with an efficient trajectory. When she runs and jumps she has a bunny hopping motion and doesn't extend. I hope it's just a confidence/flooring issue.

 

I have found that some dogs do that when they aren't challenged enough give them an adrenaline rush. Have you ever tried her over higher jumps?

 

From your videos she looks to me like a dog that is happy to do stuff with you - any stuff - but because you want her to rather than because she loves the activity itself.

 

Sorry - I do feel mean saying that and if that's what you want her to do that's great.

 

And I do appreciate that your Q system rewards steady accuracy rather than competitive speed. We look at things with different eyes conditioned by our own experiences.

 

Anyway, running true to form I've gone way OT.

[Root Beer]

No, the latest ones. She has improved a lot but she still sometimes walks between jumps and she waits for you instead of going on ahead. In the videos she pops over jumps rather than driving over them with an efficient trajectory. When she runs and jumps she has a bunny hopping motion and doesn't extend. I hope it's just a confidence/flooring issue.

 

Yes, on the most recent batch of videos, there was a floor problem. Many of the dogs were slipping. They had resurfaced the venue. A lot of us won't be returning there when the event is in that particular building. It is my understanding that the surface in the other building is still OK.

 

We are working on driving ahead in general. She's getting the idea, but it's a work in progress. Sometimes she walks out of tunnels, too, and she has always moseyed through the weaves, so I'm not seeing the walking as a jump height problem. She has been doing this a lot less recently, so it stands to reason that as she is getting the hang of the game more and more, she is maintaining her running.

 

From your videos she looks to me like a dog that is happy to do stuff with you - any stuff - but because you want her to rather than because she loves the activity itself.

 

Sorry - I do feel mean saying that and if that's what you want her to do that's great.

 

I don't see this so much as a matter of what I want, but as a matter of what she, in fact, loves.

 

While it is true that she doesn't seem to have much preference over what particular game we are playing in the ring - Agility, Freestyle, Rally FrEe, Rally, or whatever - she just loves to get out there and play, that isn't something that I see as having much to do with what I want.

 

Ultimately, I want her to have a great experience that will contribute to an overall fantastic life for her.

 

If she loves working with me more than she loves the game itself - well, that is what it is. That's not really something that I'm trying to make happen, but if that is the case, I have no issue with it.

 

And I do appreciate that your Q system rewards steady accuracy rather than competitive speed. We look at things with different eyes conditioned by our own experiences.

 

I definitely appreciate the Q system myself. Honestly, I doubt I would be very interested in Agility competition if our system were based on placements. I didn't even care for board games as a kid where object was to beat another player, but I liked electronic games where the point was to do my personal best. I love going out there with my dog to try to meet the criteria necessary to qualify on that particular course. If we are fast enough for that, it's all good, as far as I'm concerned.

 

So, yes, the way that I approach Agility probably is different from the approach one would take if my goal were to try to have the fastest dog out there. If we are fast and clean enough to qualify, I am happy.

 

And yes, sorry about the tangent . . . !!!

 

Back on topic - there do seem to be some Pennsylvania UKI events, but none within my travel range. Maybe it will come this way soon, though.

[mum24dog]

I just wanted to share that Renoir and I went to our first UKI trial yesterday afternoon. The courses are fun with some European flare and they have great training opportunities. I would highly suggest trying it out sometime, especially if you need to work on something in a trial environment.

 

How does it differ from what you are used to?

 

Is there an unfilled niche in the market in North America for what is offered?

 

What sort of thing did you think of as "European flair"?

 

Just interested.

 

UKA (precursor to UKI) here is reasonably popular in the south of the UK but I suspect that is largely because most southern KC shows are huge with not many runs per dog and UKA can offer more runs on a much smaller scale. I don't think the more Northern American system UKA offers here is the prime reason most people enter - nostalgia for agility as it used to be plays a part, I'm sure. Not many dogs, not many rings, more leisurely pace. They have tried to get a foot in the door in the north but unsuccessfully because most KC shows are of a manageable and user friendly scale.

 

As for non KC shows generally, some people use them to bring out new dogs as a step towards what most people here still think of as the real deal which is KC shows. I've done it myself and would do so again if the opportunity arose.

[mum24dog]

I didn't even care for board games as a kid where object was to beat another player

 

I'm basically like that too, possibly because when young I wasn't very good at things and wanted to avoid the disappointment of being beaten. For over 40 years I've been married to someone who doesn't think there is any point in doing an activity unless you try to win and some of it has rubbed off. I can now admit that I really would like to do the best I can and even win, but it doesn't break my heart if I don't, and not winning at agility is the norm for me.

[Root Beer]

I'm basically like that too, possibly because when young I wasn't very good at things and wanted to avoid the disappointment of being beaten. For over 40 years I've been married to someone who doesn't think there is any point in doing an activity unless you try to win and some of it has rubbed off. I can now admit that I really would like to do the best I can and even win, but it doesn't break my heart if I don't, and not winning at agility is the norm for me.

 

It is an interesting difference in the systems. I don't even think of what I am trying to do on the Agiltity course (or the Freestyle ring or the Rally FrEe ring) as "winning". What am I going to "win"? A ribbon? My name on the list with a 1 next to it? Those aren't really things that I am thinking about when my dog and I go to the start line together.

 

That doesn't mean I'm out there with no goal, of course. Second only after wanting my dog to enjoy the experience, I am looking for my dog and myself, as a team, to be successful. That success might vary from one event, or even run, to another. At our recent Westminster trial, I defined "success" in Fullhouse as keeping myself from babysitting in my handling. We got the Q, but I considered meeting my handling goal a bigger success. In Standard on that day, I defined "success" as a correct teeter. Again, we got the Q, and it was a super nice run, but the biggest success, to me, was that teeter.

 

This past weekend, my mind and heart were simply not in Agility. I was still mentally back a week doing something else. Success was Tessa's enjoyment, and trying to muddle through the courses without being too sloppy. We managed that with 3 Q's in 3 runs. And she enjoyed her turns on the courses, and I wasn't too sloppy. A little - not much. So . . . success.

 

To my way of thinking "winning" just doesn't describe what my dogs and I are trying to do out there. When I was in school, I didn't think of getting an A on a test as "winning", but as doing the best that I was capable of doing. I'm all about that. My personal aim was never to score higher than anyone else, though.

 

But when it comes to dog sports, I am thinking about doing our personal best and qualifying, not winning. There definitely are those who go out there to "win", but the Q/Title system allows for those of us who don't to have goals and aim for success in ways that work better for us.

 

That is actually why I am interested in trying UKI if it ever rolls around here. Try our hand at something a bit different - see what we can do with it. Test ourselves, as a team, against what UKI has to offer.

[mickif]

How does it differ from what you are used to?

 

Is there an unfilled niche in the market in North America for what is offered?

 

What sort of thing did you think of as "European flair"?

 

Just interested.

Think it depends on where one lives/had access to as how it may differ for folks. We do not have USDAA where i am. If we did, I would do it. Most are big into NADAC (sigh) here. CPE (sigh) and AKC (sigh) are also in my area.

 

There are 2 UKI trials a year here. From a personal point of view, I like that participating in UKI gives me the feeling that I am "competing" in a more international sense. I feel that the organization is more progressive in bringing more challenging courses that I enjoy. As one progresses through the levels, there are many more off course traps, a chance to challenge one's handling, more "tricky bits", tighter handling in areas on course, some backsides.

 

NADAC is not really agility anymore (IMHO or not so HO ) but the dogs love it because it is all about running fast and most of the "handling" has to do with keeping up with your dog. For me and NADAC, distance is the challenge it provides.

 

UKI is catching on in the US. Enough so, that I think this is one reason that AKC is now starting to integrate a more international division at some trials. I have not paid enough attention to it to describe it properly .

 

This post doesn't really answer your questions, does it ?

[Jumpin Boots]

 

How does it differ from what you are used to?

 

Is there an unfilled niche in the market in North America for what is offered?

 

What sort of thing did you think of as "European flair"?

 

Just interested.

 

 

Up until this point of my agility life I have solely competed in nadac. When I started it still had the teeter, but as was stated above it has sort of become its own sport. I enjoy nadac, love the distance work it has forced me to become comfortable with and since my younger dog Renoir had a major teeter fear it has been perfect. However after the long battle and conquering of the teeter I wanted to test out skills in a trial setting. I am very fortunate that I live in an area very rich in agility options with tons if trials. If I had the time and money and was willing to trial in any venue I could probably find a trial within a few hours every weekend! So I am not so sure that there is a huge need for another association but probably a niche and I think it will grow in popularity. There are those people, me being one, that will stand on our silent soapboxes and refrain from akc till things change, so probably for ever. I didn't want Renoirs first teeter to be in such a competitive environment as usdaa. And with uki very friendly training policy it seemed like a natural association to try.

 

The European flair I mentioned was referring to not having a timed table and the jump angles and pull throughs I saw. Now my European knowledge if agility is limited to YouTube and this was only one uki trial but I felt as through there were some similarities present.

 

There were definitely many people there for only training for their venue of choice, which is a nice option to have. Uki won't help me with nadac, but it will give my dog and I a whole different set of goals and skills to work on. I am excited about the rejuvenation it is bringing to my agility goals.

[mum24dog]

I am very fortunate that I live in an area very rich in agility options with tons if trials. If I had the time and money and was willing to trial in any venue I could probably find a trial within a few hours every weekend!

 

That's interesting. Where could you go for trials? I know the area a bit - more familiar with Vancouver Island though.

 

So I am not so sure that there is a huge need for another association but probably a niche and I think it will grow in popularity. There are those people, me being one, that will stand on our silent soapboxes and refrain from akc till things change, so probably for ever. I didn't want Renoirs first teeter to be in such a competitive environment as usdaa. And with uki very friendly training policy it seemed like a natural association to try.

 

Time will tell. It seems to me that the competitive element combined with training opportunities could be popular with a section of the agility folk.

 

The European flair I mentioned was referring to not having a timed table and the jump angles and pull throughs I saw. Now my European knowledge if agility is limited to YouTube and this was only one uki trial but I felt as through there were some similarities present.

 

How do you time the table? We used to have them but no longer because timing was too inaccurate for a system where places can be split by hundredths or even thousandths of a second.

 

There were definitely many people there for only training for their venue of choice, which is a nice option to have. Uki won't help me with nadac, but it will give my dog and I a whole different set of goals and skills to work on. I am excited about the rejuvenation it is bringing to my agility goals.

 

I'm all in favour of raising the personal bar.

[mum24dog]

There are 2 UKI trials a year here. From a personal point of view, I like that participating in UKI gives me the feeling that I am "competing" in a more international sense. I feel that the organization is more progressive in bringing more challenging courses that I enjoy. As one progresses through the levels, there are many more off course traps, a chance to challenge one's handling, more "tricky bits", tighter handling in areas on course, some backsides.

 

Thanks. That adds to the picture I'm forming.

[Root Beer]

 

 

The European flair I mentioned was referring to not having a timed table . . .

 

 

LOL - that would lend CPE some "European Flair"!! (Yes, joking!)

 

In seriouness, how does UKI judge the table? Does the dog get on the table and go, or take a certain position (sit, down) and then go, or what?

 

I am merely curious. I know I could look it up, but I'd rather hear it from someone who has tried it out.

[gcv-border]

 

How do you time the table? We used to have them but no longer because timing was too inaccurate for a system where places can be split by hundredths or even thousandths of a second.

 

 

I have never really thought how important the table might contribute to timing. I was aware that some handlers will wait an extra second after the judge says "Go" before they release their dogs (particularly with young dogs) since they don't want the dog independently releasing on the judge's "Go". Essentially they are 'training' in the ring, but that's OK by me. In these instances, the effect on the course time is the result of handler choice.

 

I guess that I had never considered that the judge, as a human, would also be a variable despite the fact that I believe they try to be as consistent as possible.

 

Not that this affects me since I don't perform in the higher realms of agility, but I do like to be aware of various aspects of the game.

 

Jovi

[alligande]

I had not until Mum24dog pointed out that in a system of progression based on wining you have to take out the human element, in the UK this applies to all levels not just the upper grades.

[Jumpin Boots]

We do sometimes venture to Vancouver Island for trials, there are 4 nadac trials held there a year and that number is growing. Then there is a pretty big dog ranch in auburn, se of Seattle that has agility trials almost every weekend, I am about 2 hours from there. Then there are all the Seattle trials and the outlying areas. Plus Portland Oregon is always an option, although you're looking at a few more hours there.

 

The table here, and again up until now i have competed in a club that doesn't use it. Has traditionally been a positional cue for a 5 sec count. Akc has recently changed to 5 sec count for getting on the table and staying on it, no position required.

 

ihave always struggled with the idea of this requirement. Besides the fact it slows shows down and the timing isn't an exact measurement with a fair amount of room for human error, I don't think it is the best thing for a lot of dogs. Sure it works impulse control and patience on your high drive dogs, but I have seen a lot of lower drive dogs that seem turned off/shut down when leaving the table.

 

As for what uki requires it is a get into position and get released, still room for timing errors sure, but seems better for the dog.

[mum24dog]

 

 

The table here, and again up until now i have competed in a club that doesn't use it. Has traditionally been a positional cue for a 5 sec count. Akc has recently changed to 5 sec count for getting on the table and staying on it, no position required.

 

ihave always struggled with the idea of this requirement. Besides the fact it slows shows down and the timing isn't an exact measurement with a fair amount of room for human error, I don't think it is the best thing for a lot of dogs. Sure it works impulse control and patience on your high drive dogs, but I have seen a lot of lower drive dogs that seem turned off/shut down when leaving the table.

 

As for what uki requires it is a get into position and get released, still room for timing errors sure, but seems better for the dog.

 

When I started in agility around 15 years ago the only places a table was likely to be met was in Gamblers as a Start/Finish point (and timing was irrelevant) and in Champ classes where it was mandatory. I can't remember when I last came across a Gamblers class in KC. As a course obstacle it was down for a count of 5 and off but that was in the days of manual timing where there was already an element of human variability involved. Once electronic timing took over the table disappeared from use, although it is still a legal obstacle that could be used if any judge were prepared to face the wrath of the competitors.

 

An example of why accuracy in timing is essential here came yesterday in one of the preliminary rounds of a Champ class when my daughter and another handler were called for a run off with electronic timing to thousandths of a second. (Both had comfortably qualified for the final whatever the result of the run off so they decided to forego the rerun to save the dogs. They just agreed between themselves which one would be deemed to have won it.)

 

Our older dogs have a Table command and it has been very useful in real life if I want them up on something flat to save my having to bend down. They probably have a faster Down than I would have taught too because of having been trained to a table. The hardest thing to teach a fast dog was to put on the brakes and not skid off the far side of the table.