Why should I not have a Border Collie?

[BKLD]

I'm about to adopt my first Border Collie from a rescue sometime this summer, and I just want to be sure of what I'm getting into. I've done research, I've met several dogs, and decided long ago that this is a breed that I want. But, I know that there are going to be things that I'm going to need to deal with that I may not have necessarily dealt with before, and not all of them will be pleasant. As they say, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. So, tell me, why should I not have a Border Collie.

[Tommy Coyote]

Do you have a fenced yard? My dogs really like to be outside to play and run and I would hate to deal with them without a good fenced yard. And some of them are fence jumpers which can be a real problem. My border collies have all been very active but I don't need to run them every day or anything like that. They get plenty of exercise in the back yard playing with each other and with their toys.

 

I take care of lot of different breeds and I really don't think border collies are that much more difficult than other dogs. Just make sure you get a good temperment. There are some border collies out there that have nasty temperments and they are no fun to own. Both of the dogs I have now are very gentle and smart. They are lots of fun to own.

 

I would not want to try living in an apartment with these dogs - but lots of people do and they do all right.

[BKLD]

I do have a fenced yard. It's relatively small, but there is room to run and play. I've got a 6 foot wood privacy fence, so I don't worry about them jumping the fence or anything like that, but as a precaution, I go outside and watch the dogs.

 

You know, I've been told several times that Border Collies are ridiculously hard to own, even by Border Collie people. I think that most are exaggerating, but at the same time I don't want to be caught completely off guard and end up with a dog that is completely out of control. That's why I'm asking to know about Border Collies at their worst. I'll look for a dog with a stable temperament though, since I'm looking at getting an adult rescue, the rescue group should be able to match me with a good dog.

[Gideon's girl]

At their worst, they are hyperactive, easily bored, OCD, highly intelligent, and looking for trouble. With a rescue dog, you should know if they are hyperactive, easily bored, OCD, highly intelligent, or looking for trouble. Mine are the perfect dogs. They are active, interested in new things, highly intelligent, and motivated. You'll be a great BC owner if you are ready to put in the time and have patience and understanding. Go for it!!

[Sue R]

"You know, I've been told several times that Border Collies are ridiculously hard to own, even by Border Collie people."

 

And I'd ask, what kind of "Border Collie people" and what kind of Border Collie? In other words, are you talking about working stockdog people? Performance sports people? Show people? Pet/companion people? Are you talking working-bred dogs? Performance sports-bred dogs? Show-bred dogs? Pet/companion-bred dogs?

 

Have you read "Read This First"? I say that because like many people here, while Border Collies can be well-suited to many situations (if you wish to put the time and effort into them), Border Collies bred *for the wrong reason* can particularly be a challenge. For instance, dogs bred by performance sports people who are looking for edgy, hyper, super-fast dogs may produce a dog that is a nightmare for a pet/companion person or a less-active person (or even for a performance sports person).

 

I have found in general that working-bred dogs are very adaptable but they do need a combination of physical activity and (more importantly) mental activity. I know of people who have lived with them in the center of NYC or other high-density, uber-urban environments, very successfully and contentedly - but they have been exceptional people who give their dogs the activity and mental stimulation that satisfies and contents them. There are others who live on a farm or ranch with acreage, but who don't give the dogs the training, direction, guided activity and interaction they need, and wind up with dogs whose minds and bodies are wasted with aimless roaming, barking, stock harassment, or boredom waiting on the porch or in the kennel for someone to do *something* with them.

 

What your dog would need is structure; consistency; training; activity; mental exercise; interaction with you and your family; boundaries; guidance.

 

Ridiculously hard to own? Well, maybe if a dog is bred for looks without emphasis on intelligence, biddability, and temperment. Maybe if a dog is bred for hyper-activity? Maybe if the owner just does not understand what an intelligent, active dog with a particular set of instincts needs?

 

Remember also that dogs that are not bred *for the work* may often not have the traditional instinct set that a working-bred dog should have - and while you might wind up with a dog that has some of those characteristics, you might also wind up with a dog with just a partial or even non-existent set of "useful" characteristics - which is why some people have obsessive dogs with weird repetitious behaviors, or may experience other difficulties.

 

If you get a pup, young dog, or adult from a reputable rescue (where the animal has been fostered, vetted, and evaluated), you are more likely to get a "good dog". And getting a young adult or adult dog from a rescue removes some of the "roll of the dice" factor that is present in getting a pup from even the most responsible breeder because that animal has been evaluated and fostered.

 

Sorry for rambling...

[BKLD]

No problem about the rambling. I should've been more specific. Sorry about that. Some were working people, and the rest were sport people. I had heard that sport-bred dogs tend to be a neurotic mess, so it's understandable where the sport people are coming from, but the working people were more general and said that unless I was working on a farm, I shouldn't own this breed because they will try to herd everything and are too hyper for house life and yada, yada, yada.

 

I'm getting a young adult from a reputable rescue, so I'm hoping that they will tell me as much of this dog's history and temperament as they can. But, I figure that I might as well be prepared to deal with any unexpected problems that might show up due to an unknown background.

[Sue R]

Great! I think that one reason why some working breeders do not recommend (or will not sell) to pet/companion or other than working homes is just that - that the dogs may not get what they need to be content and fulfilled. Meanwhile, just because a dog is working-bred does not mean it will "herd" the cats or children - that is something that is the owner's responsibility to deal with by training well before a problem arises. Without proper direction and boundaries, that can easily happen. I have one dog that, due to my ignorance, "works" the cat and would "work" children - but he is not allowed to even give children the "eye" that lets me know he is thinking that way. If he does, he is reprimanded and called off, and often crated because in his crate, he will be content, feel safe, and will not even begin to think about "working" the grandkids.

 

I have had a total of five working-bred Border Collies, one working-bred BC/Aussie, and three working-bred Aussies, all of whom lived in the house with us and our children/grandchildren about. Because they led reasonably full lives (working part-time on our small cattle farm) with exercise, training, attention, and boundaries, they all did very well living with us - but it took effort on our part to supply exercise, discipline, routine, mental activity, and so on.

 

I'm all about a person who is not going to be doing serious stockwork getting a rescue. When I no longer have a need for a working dog to help on the farm, rescue is the route I will most likely go.

 

Best wishes!

[urge to herd]

I just had Gibbs out and about this weekend, and asked a couple gentlemen who were running a booth to give him treats and otherwise ignore him. One man mentioned that he was surprised that Gibbs wasn't eying the two little boys who were tossing a ball back and forth. He said, "Don't border collies like to herd kids?"

 

I replied, "Not if you train them!"

 

Training a border collie is easy. Training a border collie to do the thing you actually have in mind, and not the accidental thing is a bit harder. Humans need to be very clear and very, very precise when we train a bc. Otherwise we wind up with, hmm, unintended consequences.

 

Training goes on all the time for any dog, whether or not we know it. If you're willing to be purposeful and clear about training, you'll be fine. And not just for the basics. Many bcs love to learn tricks, do agility, etc. My dogs that have passed on all needed/loved to be learning something till the end of their days.

 

Training a dog and yourself, if you're a novice like myself, in stock work is very rewarding and will keep everyone on their toes.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[juliepoudrier]

I'm surprised that a working breeder with any real knowledge would state that working bred dogs herd anything and everything. I have 8 border collies, 7 of which are working bred. They live in the house with me and 6 cats. Two of those cats are allowed to go outside, where I also have free-range chickens who share the same space as the dogs, and sheep who share several fencelines with the dogs. These dogs are high-caliber working dogs (that is, capable of competing at the highest level in USBCHA sheepdog trials) and yet none of them indiscriminately herd *anything.* Yes, there can sometimes be some cat stalking, but I have set rules in my house for acceptable behavior, and we (the dogs) follow the rules.

 

As someone else mentioned, most border collies, if they don't have some underlying issues/problems, are super trainable. What sort of dog you have will depend largely on how much time and effort you're willing to put into helping your dog to be a good citizen.

 

J.

[BKLD]

All right. Thanks. I definitely have every intent on training my dog continuously.

[alligande]

I have had three border collies of my own and fostered a number of others, all have been good company and enjoyable room mates and I could not imagine having any other type of dog. Personally I think the reason people over emphasis how difficult they are is to discourage people from getting one.

As an example I was out with my dog this weekend first practicing agility in a public park, where everyone commented on how he showed no interest in their dogs just wanted to keep playing the game..next came baseball where he was fascinated by the guys warming up, then by a pick up frisbee game which used every once of will power to stay with us. And once again people commented on him, what I never want them thinking is that any of this happens because he is a border collie, which often their first response - my dog could never do that because its not smart like yours - it's because I have spent an enormous amount of time with him to get to that point.

[PSmitty]

I can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't get a border collie. You've done your research, met some dogs, are prepared to train the dog, have the means to contain the dog and are going through a reputable rescue with the plan of having them match a dog to your lifestyle and needs. To me, you sound like a great potential owner!

 

A "hard to own" border collie could come from any source... working bred, sports bred, backyard bred. I don't think we need to turn everything into a working bred vs "everything else" arguement. What you have in your corner is a dog coming from a source (rescue/foster) which should be able to give you a very good idea of what you're in for. And since NO dog is perfect, from either a breeder or rescue, I think you understand that and seem prepared to deal with whatever comes along.

 

Wishing you all the best! Thanks for rescuing and please be sure to share with us when you get your new dog.

[Sue R]

All right. Thanks. I definitely have every intent on training my dog continuously.

 

You do know that you will be training your dog contiuously, whether you are making an effort at it or not. *Not training* does teach the dog just as much as training does, but what it teaches the dog is not often what you'd like the dog to learn.

 

These dogs are smart, and it is even more important to teach the right principles from the start and all the time. That said, it's a great journey through life when you think about, learn about, and teach the things that will make your dog the best dog ever.

[BKLD]

Thanks PSmitty. I will definitely share once I get my new dog, and I'm really looking forward to it.

 

Yes, I do know that Sue. But, I am going to make an effort.

[mum24dog]

I had heard that sport-bred dogs tend to be a neurotic mess

 

It's usually not the dogs, it's the people. You can turn most BCs into a neurotic mess very easily if you hype them up into a frenzy all the time. A sensible sport handler knows that it isn't necessary to turn their dog into a screaming obsessive for it to perform well.

 

I come across many hundreds of BCs in the course of my agility life and you can't tell working/pet/show/sport bred apart from general behaviour. I know perfect and nightmare dogs from all backgrounds.

 

As has been said, getting a dog past puppyhood will give you a good idea of what you are letting yourself in for.

 

One thing I would advise is to try and avoid one that chases everything that moves, especially traffic. Most can be trained out of it but it's no fun to start with and if it's your first BC it could turn you off the breed for life. It's a myth that they all do it, just as it's a myth that they all herd the kids and cats or that they need hours of exercise every day. They need a brain workout more than physical.

 

And another myth - all BCs are smart. They aren't.

[Mdaniels]

I have had many breeds and mixes, Ben is my first border collie. I just love the guy. He has a few neuroses, but hey--so do I . We work at play and I do find if I'm not training him, he is training me...so I try to keep him challenged. He snuggles just as hard as he plays. Enjoy.

[Maralynn]

My dogs are a handful at times and they keep me on my toes, but they're not hard. They sleep in my room and get up when I do - 6 am or 9 am makes no difference to them, they sleep until I get up.

 

Sure they would get in trouble if they had the chance - they're high drive dogs and it's highly rewarding to chase/obsess over things. But an ounce of prevention really is worth a pound of cure. They have crates and kennels that I utilize if i can't be with them.

 

I give them a reasonable amount of exercise - yesterday it was a couple of 10 minute ball sessions and a run along the bike for a little over a mile. I give them a reasonable amount of training - yesterday that equaled about 10 minutes, some days it's more, some days I need to skip it. In return they just chill and chew a bone when they hang out in the house with me.

 

They have a few quirks, there have been a few challenges but, if you enjoy working with a dog, it's not really difficult to deal with

[Oko]

It's usually not the dogs, it's the people. You can turn most BCs into a neurotic mess very easily if you hype them up into a frenzy all the time. A sensible sport handler knows that it isn't necessary to turn their dog into a screaming obsessive for it to perform well.

 

I come across many hundreds of BCs in the course of my agility life and you can't tell working/pet/show/sport bred apart from general behaviour. I know perfect and nightmare dogs from all backgrounds.

 

This, so true. The handlers are usually the ones teaching them to be always 'up'. I've seen just as crazy looking working-bred agility dogs.

[BKLD]

Ah, I see. And people were leading me to believe that it's always the dogs that were the issue. Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

I really do enjoy working with a dog (I've just got to train myself a bit, since I have some issues with patience), and it's especially rewarding to me to see the results, no matter how small. So, I'm hoping that this will be a good thing for me.

 

I'm a little concerned about aggression issues that might pop up. Do a lot of rescues have these sort of problems, or is that another exaggeration that people are telling me? It would make sense to me; people get these dogs from sources that aren't the best, and then don't realize the amount of stimulation they need. It seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm hoping that by getting an adult dog from a reputable rescue will take out most of the guesswork, but I've still got this nagging fear of getting a dog that turns out to be aggressive or reactive.

[Sue R]

As others have pointed out, while dogs do come with certain inherent characteristics and there is a wide variability within the breed as well as within the sorts of lines that people have bred, an awful lot of what a dog becomes is environmental. It's the old nature-versus-nurture discussion.

 

Dogs are often very adaptable, at least within their own limits. How you train and how you manage a dog is a big part of what that dog becomes - or at least how it lives its life. A terrific example is a fairly recent topic about a dog that was reactive to cars - the owner posted a video and people here could see that while he was working hard to overcome his dog's reactivity to cars, his approach to dealing with the situation was also a contributing factor. He modified *his* behavior while continuing to work with the dog, and the problem became less and less an issue.

 

I have several friends who run respected rescues. Most respected rescues don't just take a dog from a shelter or other situation and adopt it out - most foster the dogs for a while; give them basic training; evaluate them with regards to interactions with other dogs, cats, children, strangers, public situations, and so on. That doesn't mean there aren't always unforeseen issues but a reputable rescue will also work with you if something pops up, giving advice, maybe making a home visit, and even being willing to take back a dog that just does not work out in that situation, even though it appeared beforehand that it would be a good home for the dog.

 

Remember, there is never a guarantee no matter where you get a dog or pup - a pup is always a gamble, although your odds are greatly improved by knowing the parents (and lineage), previous pups from the same or similar breedings, and getting the pup from a responsible breeder. A rescue is also a gamble but, on the other hand, is often a young adult or adult dog that has had the chance to mature a bit and demonstrate its true nature, has had some training and work done with it by an experienced foster, and has been evaluated by someone who knows and understands this type of dog.

 

So, you can't get a pup or dog from anyone, anywhere, with a perfect guarantee - but either getting a well-bred pup or an animal from a good rescue will certainly improve your odds enormously - and then you do your part to help that animal become the animal you want him or her to be.

 

These boards are full of members with rescue dogs, living happy lives together with good training and good management. I hope you will become one of those members who has successfully adopted a rescue dog and loved the experience!

[BKLD]

I really hope so too. Thanks Sue.

[rushdoggie]

Ah, I see. And people were leading me to believe that it's always the dogs that were the issue. Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

I really do enjoy working with a dog (I've just got to train myself a bit, since I have some issues with patience), and it's especially rewarding to me to see the results, no matter how small. So, I'm hoping that this will be a good thing for me.

 

I'm a little concerned about aggression issues that might pop up. Do a lot of rescues have these sort of problems, or is that another exaggeration that people are telling me? It would make sense to me; people get these dogs from sources that aren't the best, and then don't realize the amount of stimulation they need. It seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm hoping that by getting an adult dog from a reputable rescue will take out most of the guesswork, but I've still got this nagging fear of getting a dog that turns out to be aggressive or reactive.

 

A reputable rescue won't adopt out a known aggressive dog to anyone, because of teh liability issues. I don't think Border Collies are exeptionally aggressive, but they do sometimes come with a low tolerance for what they deem as "unacceptable behavior" and may snap or growl. But again, a dog who has been fostered by a good organization is vested in matching the right dog to the right home and so they will test a dog a bit to see if he has issues hidden a little deeper.

[speckle-legged dog]

I am a novice dog owner and my husband and I adopted a Border Collie mix puppy. She will be three tomorrow. It had been a tremendous learning experience for us. I knew a BC mix would require a good deal of exercise and training, but when I started reading the information I found out on the web I was terrified that we had made an awful mistake! I have been grateful to find that though she's an active girl, she never ate the drywall out of the house because I didn't run her for 10 miles every day (the kind of stuff I read online). We take a very long walk in the morning (3 - 4 miles), I come home and play with her at lunch, my husband is in and out all day and gives her more than a little mental stimulation, then we often go to agility class or practice, and right now more obedience class. I've not done the most efficient job training her, since I knew nothing about it, but persistence is paying off. She's been wonderfully behaved in the house since she was about a year old, and she's becoming wonderfully behaved on leash. We have some kinks to work out in agility (she gets so excited and driven that she's hard to completely control in that environment) but we are working hard on that.

 

She is a very affectionate dog and likes to be with us all the time, and we provide that, we do lots of "stuff" with her and it makes her very happy. If someone wasn't the type of person who wanted to take their dog to the post office to drop off a letter just because she likes it, they might not be interested in our dog, because she loves that stuff! She just wants to be a part of what we are doing. I know that our dog at least, would not be happy if she wasn't fully a part of her human's lives. My husband became rather ill right after we adopted her, and when he got out of the hospital I would be at work and he would go get our puppy out of her crate and bring her upstairs to sleep snuggled up to him. She was very happy to cuddle and I really think she helped him a lot then.

 

For a breed that I read online never slows down or gets tired, she's the most wonderful napping buddy I've ever had. Every Saturday right after agility practice we cuddle up and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

[juliepoudrier]

Okay, I think that there's always a nature *and* a nurture component. For example, I have a young dog now who is absolutely driving me (and the rest of my pack) crazy because of serious self control issues (Hello, my name is Jule and I have an out-of-control border collie, lol!). I have raised more than one puppy and adopted adult rescues and have never had an issue with an "over the top" sort of dog. Until now. It turns out that she has littermates who are the same way. I'm dog savvy and don't raise crazy, amped up dogs. Granted, her issues are pretty situational (specifically if I go out intot the yard to do chores and she's out there, then she loses her self control and harasses the other dogs, etc. ) Oh, and yes, she's working bred.

 

ISTM that there are sport folks who like really amped up dogs, for whatever reason, and those folks will have amped up dogs no matter what, because that's what they choose. I also think that the desire for that sort of temperament can lead to dogs being bred for that temperament (because the owner really likes that "over the topness"). I know of people who specifically look for pups from litters where the parents are hyped up.

 

So my point is that it goes both ways. There's a nature and a nurture component. The fact that I've worked hard to compensate for my youngster's self-control issues and haven't yet succeeded says that nature can overcome nurture. I imagine even a naturally mellow dog could still be amped up by the human if the human works hard enough....

 

Anyway, if you're getting a young adult from a reputable rescue, you ought to have a pretty good idea of what you're getting, especially if the dog has been in foster care long enough for the foster people to have thoroughly evaluated the dog after it has had time to settle in to their home environment.

 

J.

Ah, I see. And people were leading me to believe that it's always the dogs that were the issue. Thanks for clearing that one up.

[Gideon's girl]

My agility instructor has one of those naturally amped dogs. She is not someone who could physically amp up a dog or exercise it to that level of fitness. They definitely do exist.