JerryG Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Today I taught my 5 1/2 month old BC to run beside my bicycle. Two questions: 1) What is a safe distance for a dog this age to trot or run? We live in a rural area on mostly gravel roads. 2) If I got a pulling harness would it be OK? Collies don't seem to have the build for pulling, but would it be a problem? We go to foundation agility classes, which is my main interest, followed by Frisbee. Thanks, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Maybe do some short jogs with the bike at about a year (no more than a 1/2 mile, a couple times a week to get the dog acclimated) but I wouldn't be starting any longer structured running until your dog is about 18 m/o to avoid injuring growing/developing joints. At the age your pup is now, recreational running on it's own is great, but structured repetitive running (ie, running/jogging with a bike) can lead to joint issues since the bones are still soft and growing. I do bike quite a bit with one of my dogs and she loves it! I have a skijor harness for her, but more often we just use one like this She loves to lean into the harness and GO! She may not seem to be built well for pulling, but she loves to pull and loves to run so the activity is perfect for her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 One member here used to use her dogs for dogsledding in New England, just a small team of several dogs. Perhaps she will see this and respond. Just take it easy on the roadwork with your youngster, just like Mara said. I think walking is better than running but even that can be overdone with a young dog. When they run loose (in a yard or field) with you and you are not covering distance, they will slow down and stop when they are ready. On leash and with the bike, the youngster will have a tendency to just keep going as long as you go and as long as he/she can manage, and may overdo and harm growing joints. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickim Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 They may not be built for pulling, but I bet your dog will do whatever you ask her (him?) to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I have friends that compete in sprint and mid distance (100 miles) sled dog and skijoring with border collies. Not competitive in the mid distance but darn good in the sprints! We did skijoring and bikejoring with ours. Another friend does dog sled in the winter with her Border Collies to keep them in shape cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Just wanted to respond with the same advice that repetitive running, jumping (frisbee, agility) or pulling in a young dog is definitely not a good idea, not if you are concerned about the long-term joint health of your dog. Border collies CAN do many wonderful, athletic maneuvers at a young age, but they SHOULD NOT be encouraged to do so. Moderation and diversity is best. As far a foundation agility: are you training flatwork/groundwork in your class (i.e. handling maneuvers on the flat, no jumping)? Your pup should not be jump training at this age. (nor should he be training weaves). Most knowledgeable agility peeps will not jump their dog until about 12 months of age, and even then, the jumps are not full height. If your instructor is asking you to jump a pup at this young age, I would question his/her agility knowledge. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Wow! I haven't been on this forum in AGES, cause my computer was messed up and wasn't letting me into some sites. It finally crashed and now I'm on an even older laptop that can't seem to access everything online cause it's so old and I'm testing what I CAN get into. Lo and behold, first time back on this board and one of the first things I read is about BC's pulling :D/> Not only can they pull, they can do it well. We use ours for skijoring, sprint racing, a bit of mid-distance racing and recreation. We do dryland training with a 3-wheeled rig and scooter and have raced dryland too, but my preference is running on snow with a sled. My daughter and I both race 4 dog teams in the 4 mile sprint classes and I've done 6 dog 15 miles and plan to do that again this winter and a 6 dog 20 mile class too, in addition to our sprint racing. I often hook up an 8 dog team for training and fun too. I usually log my training runs and races and have put on over 300 miles in a season. As for how BC's compare with other breeds for pulling, in the classes I enter I always finish in the top half of the class. We are competing against teams of siberian huskies, alaskan huskies (a type developed over many years for racing and faster than the majority of purebred sibes), greysters (greyhound mix), pointers and other houndy mixes (some called eurohounds). I train with a cycling computer or a gps and have logged my dogs max speed at 25.7mph (yes, miles, not km) They don't maintain that speed, that would just be coming out of the starting chute. I usually record a max of 20 or 21 when training but speeds fluctuate throughout a run and average training speeds for a whole run are often more around 10-12mph and racing averages around 14-16mph. The winning teams are averaging speeds of about 20mph. One race I go to also has a weight pull and for fun I entered a dog in it last year. He's not purebred BC, he's BC/lab mix. He did very well and ended up coming 2nd. He had completed his last pull and could have tried again to go for a win but it was his first time doing a weight pull and he was getting tired. My friend's dog who was also still in it was looking less tired and I figured would win anyhow so I didn't want to demoralize my dog by asking him to do more when he was already trying so hard and getting tired. So I decided to stop while he was having fun and we took 2nd Something else we had some fun with last year was I was asked to take part in an elementary school's winter carnival and give dogsled rides. there was barely any snow so I started with only 4 dogs until they tired a bit (would have been no stopping a big team in those conditions) and then added in more dogs after so I had 8 on for hauling the kids around. We gave rides to over 200 kids that day. The next day we had another interesting "job". I'd been hired to deliver a bride by dogsled to her outdoor wedding, on the lake in front of her cottage. She met me at the public boat launch and I drove her about a mile or so down the lake and into the bay by her family's cottage. Dropped her off for the ceremony and I took the dogs for a spin around the lake and then back to the wedding for photos. It was lots of fun for the bride, guests and us and some of the children in attendance also got a little ride in the sled :)/> ETA:I usually harness break dogs somewhere around 8-10 months of age but keep it very short and fun with no real weight. They're about a year old before I start doing more and gradually work up the distances they're running as they gain experience and condition. As with any activity, you don't want to rush to do too much too early and injure your dog although running in harness is fairly low impact since there is no jumping, no sudden stopping or turning. It's just running smoothly straight forward with teammates also helping pull what little weight there is to a sled or training rig. If you're going to be doing any pulling it's important to get a proper harness designed for the type of work your dog will be doing. There are many different types of pulling harnesses available for different builds of dogs and different types of pulling. A freighting harness would be used for weight pull or other heavy pulling; one of the many different kinds of sledding harness would be used for sledding, dryland training or skijoring; or a carting harness for carting (different again than dryland rigs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I used to be quite involved, but I realized I would rather put the time and money into stock work. They can pull, but a pup shouldn't be running with a bike. You need to wait until they are a year old and even then they should be running on dirt, not pavement or thick gravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryG Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Thanks All. Jovi--no worries, we do not jump or do weaves. Mostly flatwork, obiedience and obstacle focus. This last Tuesday we did very low teeters (after weeks of the bang game,) low dog walk and straight tunnels. Never more than three times for any one exercise. We have done stride regulators a few times and are pretty much following Susan Salo's Puppy Jumping on this issue. Jerry www.artandorchids.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Went to get Christmas Tree this weekend. Tree farm had Newfoundlands to help! Keeva tried to help pull the rope on the sled. It was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Went to get Christmas Tree this weekend. Tree farm had Newfoundlands to help! .... It was awesome That IS Awesome. I do not buy a Christmas tree, but if I had such an operation nearby, I would go and buy a tree just to support them. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 ^^ That is really cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Good to see you again, Silhouette! I wondered where you'd gotten to. Welcome back. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Good to see you again, Silhouette! I wondered where you'd gotten to. Welcome back. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Thanks nice to be back. Hopefully this little old laptop keeps going at least a few more weeks, I have a nice new one on order for my daughter for Christmas that I plan to share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmtst2 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Wow! I haven't been on this forum in AGES, cause my computer was messed up and wasn't letting me into some sites. It finally crashed and now I'm on an even older laptop that can't seem to access everything online cause it's so old and I'm testing what I CAN get into. Lo and behold, first time back on this board and one of the first things I read is about BC's pulling :D/>/> Not only can they pull, they can do it well. We use ours for skijoring, sprint racing, a bit of mid-distance racing and recreation. We do dryland training with a 3-wheeled rig and scooter and have raced dryland too, but my preference is running on snow with a sled. My daughter and I both race 4 dog teams in the 4 mile sprint classes and I've done 6 dog 15 miles and plan to do that again this winter and a 6 dog 20 mile class too, in addition to our sprint racing. I often hook up an 8 dog team for training and fun too. I usually log my training runs and races and have put on over 300 miles in a season. As for how BC's compare with other breeds for pulling, in the classes I enter I always finish in the top half of the class. We are competing against teams of siberian huskies, alaskan huskies (a type developed over many years for racing and faster than the majority of purebred sibes), greysters (greyhound mix), pointers and other houndy mixes (some called eurohounds). I train with a cycling computer or a gps and have logged my dogs max speed at 25.7mph (yes, miles, not km) They don't maintain that speed, that would just be coming out of the starting chute. I usually record a max of 20 or 21 when training but speeds fluctuate throughout a run and average training speeds for a whole run are often more around 10-12mph and racing averages around 14-16mph. The winning teams are averaging speeds of about 20mph. One race I go to also has a weight pull and for fun I entered a dog in it last year. He's not purebred BC, he's BC/lab mix. He did very well and ended up coming 2nd. He had completed his last pull and could have tried again to go for a win but it was his first time doing a weight pull and he was getting tired. My friend's dog who was also still in it was looking less tired and I figured would win anyhow so I didn't want to demoralize my dog by asking him to do more when he was already trying so hard and getting tired. So I decided to stop while he was having fun and we took 2nd Something else we had some fun with last year was I was asked to take part in an elementary school's winter carnival and give dogsled rides. there was barely any snow so I started with only 4 dogs until they tired a bit (would have been no stopping a big team in those conditions) and then added in more dogs after so I had 8 on for hauling the kids around. We gave rides to over 200 kids that day. The next day we had another interesting "job". I'd been hired to deliver a bride by dogsled to her outdoor wedding, on the lake in front of her cottage. She met me at the public boat launch and I drove her about a mile or so down the lake and into the bay by her family's cottage. Dropped her off for the ceremony and I took the dogs for a spin around the lake and then back to the wedding for photos. It was lots of fun for the bride, guests and us and some of the children in attendance also got a little ride in the sled :)/>/> ETA:I usually harness break dogs somewhere around 8-10 months of age but keep it very short and fun with no real weight. They're about a year old before I start doing more and gradually work up the distances they're running as they gain experience and condition. As with any activity, you don't want to rush to do too much too early and injure your dog although running in harness is fairly low impact since there is no jumping, no sudden stopping or turning. It's just running smoothly straight forward with teammates also helping pull what little weight there is to a sled or training rig. If you're going to be doing any pulling it's important to get a proper harness designed for the type of work your dog will be doing. There are many different types of pulling harnesses available for different builds of dogs and different types of pulling. A freighting harness would be used for weight pull or other heavy pulling; one of the many different kinds of sledding harness would be used for sledding, dryland training or skijoring; or a carting harness for carting (different again than dryland rigs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmtst2 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I just found this out too. I always had Malmutes and this is my first BC. I had to start using the girls harness and cow chain lead on the BC and it was hooked a 300 lb dog hut and the BC pulled it out of the 4x4. I was going to buy a thinner lead as I thought the weight would be too much for him but now I just anchored it to the house. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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