Do all your dogs get along well? Or do you Crate and Rotate?

[cmsgyay]

Since I plan to have more than 1 dog in the future, I was just wondering how well BCs get along with each other in general.

 

From what I've seen they seen to get along very well with other BCs but just wanted to hear your personal experiences.

 

So those with multiple dogs, do all your dogs stay loose together or do you have to crate and rotate??

[SecretBC]

My dogs are pets first and foremost (vs working dogs, where perhaps expectations may be different?) -- they are all expected to get along with each other and not try to kill anyone. That includes all fosters that come through the door as well. I don't require that they LIKE the newcomers or that they have to play with them. Ignoring is fine, but we must all live as one cohesive unit.

 

I don't bring dogs into the house that I don't feel I'll be able to integrate into my little herd. For that reason, I foster puppies -- it's just easiest that way, as they tend to be more readily accepted.

 

Everyone in my house is socialized to the gills as youngsters and is expected to get on well with others. Again, I don't care if they want to play with other dogs or not, but nobody is allowed to try to rip another dog's face off.

 

Secret hasn't met another border collie that she hasn't fallen in love with yet. Luke tolerates everyone. Kaiser is my fussy little man -- he is rotten to half of them and obsessively in love with the other half. His rotten moments are during play time outside, so it is easily managed by putting him in the house while the other dogs wish to play.

[juliepoudrier]

FWIW, socialization to the gills isn't always what matters when it comes to hierarchy in multidog households. I have two older females who have NEVER liked each other (they met in middle age and are both dominant females). Each gets along with all the other dogs, but they do. not. like. each. other.

 

In the human world, if our personalities clash with someone else's or we just get a bad vibe or don't like someone for some reason, we can generally minimize our contact with that person. In our households we expect all of our animals to get along, but the fact is that some don't, just like with humans.

 

In my case, I manage them. I don't have to separate anyone unless I leave the house, and in that case, for at least one of the old biddies, she'd be crated anyway because she still chews stuff at her age.

 

Dogs in multiple dog households still have a pack hierarchy, and sometimes some of them will try to change their standing within the pack. It's up to the human to manage, but when you get up in numbers, you also have to realize that some of them just might not get along. Of course I have 10 border collies, so that certainly increases my odds of having personality clashes. That said, we can all share space in the house together without any fighting, but there are moments when one dog will try to intimidate another or similar (typical) dog behavior. All I have to do is speak to them and they stop it.

 

In general, if someone were to ask me, I'd say all my dogs get along well enough. We don't have fights, no blood is spilled. But is is always peace and harmony? Certainly not.

 

J.

[SecretBC]

And of course, one can minimize bitch fighting by sticking with boys...

[MaryP]

From what I've seen they seen to get along very well with other BCs but just wanted to hear your personal experiences.

 

I don't think you can make that generalization. It depends on the dog(s). I don't think it's a breed-specific thing.

 

My personal dogs get along well 99.9% of the time. One is put in an x-pen when we aren't there, but that's because he'll eat things, not because the dogs don't get along. The occasional issue that we might have is due to one of two (out of four) of my dogs guarding resources. But, fosters that rotate through are usually tolerated to various degrees. And that goes both ways. I think that if you have a dog-friendly dog and you add another dog-friendly dog in the future, then chances are good that the dogs will get along, especially if they are younger when they meet.

[zenotri]

Like Secret, I dont care whether they like each other or play, but I don't do fighting.

 

I have 5 bitches and they all get along pretty well. Older ones tell the younger ones off from time to time, but it doesn't escalate.

 

If I go out for an extended time, I will not leave them all together. If I have a foster here, they are not left with mine if I go out.

[Maralynn]

Mine two get along fine together. I think once you have 3 or more dogs it becomes a pack mentality among the dogs. Dynamics shift, emotions feed off of each other. I don't think it's a pet vs working thing. I think it's more of an issue of how well you can read and manage your dogs and don't allow issues to escalate.

 

Good leadership and good training can take care of most of your potential issues, but once and a while personalities just clash or certain dogs have it in for each other (usually happens between females).

 

FWIW as a rule, you have the best success with male/female combo or a male/male combo.

[2 Devils]

I have 5 dogs (3 females / 2 males)

 

The 2 ACDs are females (oldest 13.5 and youngest 3 yr). These 2 have squabbles but squabbles are much less frequent than they once were and can be stopped verbally. The last squabble happened a couple months ago outside (1st time it happened outside) and there would have been no way to stop a fight if it really broke out since I was pretty far away. Luckily yelling NO stopped all foolishness and they walked away from each other. It took some time and discipline to make it happen that way. We DO NOT leave these 2 alone loose in the house if we leave. The youngest can't be trusted outside the crate anyways.

 

The border collie and young ACD have some issues as well with very minor squabbles (only a couple so far) and these also are stopped verbally. These 2 dogs do not acknowledge the presence of the other very often. Sad thing is they could be great playmates if they gave each other a chance.

 

Basically, my dogs do not have to like each, get along with each other BUT must tolerate the presence of each other. I prefer to have all 5 dogs outside the crate together but play time is done with only 1-2 at a time to avoid possible fights. If I give bones, the youngest ACD is locked in a crate to avoid a fight. Normally 4 out of 5 can be left together without issue. Nali (youngest) causes issues so she is never left out of the crate unless we can watch her.

 

The oldest ACD has some health issues so we aren't sure if that has anything to do with Nali picking on her. The issues started about 4-5 months after Nali was rescued and about the time Foster's health started to decline.

 

I may be adding another dog in a couple months so we will see what happens at that time.

[cmsgyay]

I don't require that they LIKE the newcomers or that they have to play with them. Ignoring is fine, but we must all live as one cohesive unit.

 

Everyone in my house is socialized to the gills as youngsters and is expected to get on well with others. Again, I don't care if they want to play with other dogs or not, but nobody is allowed to try to rip another dog's face off.

 

I have met dogs that no matter how much insisting and training you give them, they WILL kill each other at any chance they get. Otherwise why would people crate and rotate? Especially I know a few Dobe people and Pit owners that have dogs that absolutely will not get along, it's not a training or socialization issue. Insisting doesn't help in that case. They cannot ignore each other.

 

Some of them are dog vs dog, some bitch vs bitch, some bitch vs dog. Some dogs just do not get along.

[beachdogz]

Here's a question on topic that I am interested to hear responses....can more than 2 dogs play well together??? The last time I had three dogs in a house was 30 years ago, and I can't remember how they played...since I've always had one or two (and when having two, they were always male/female.)

 

My 1st male and 2nd female play roughly together...chasing each other and lots of verbal banter. The new rescue dog (a male) has been here 6 months and does not know how to play...with toys or dogs. But lately, Kylie (female) will try to play with him and he seems like he is on the verge of playing. Stormy (10 yr first male) also seems to want to play at times. Rusty (rescue) usually turns his head to look away or gets up and walks away. He watches when the other two play, but doesn't join in. But lately, I think he is close to playing.

 

So the question is -- can three dogs play together? Those of you with multiple dogs....will they all play....or is it more like 2 dogs only playing?

[Cody & Duchess]

First- four dogs, all from rescue. Have felt really guilty about the fact that I have to separate two females. I keep them apart through management (mostly fencing). They have had three fights over a year ago, never a mark on either dog ( but the sound was horrible). One dog ( I will call A) has always had attitude. Always been a slightly pushy towards the other dogs (and she is the oldest at 7). Another dog B has always had a issues with fear of other dogs, wind, thunder, you name it - she has attacked A dog when she felt threatened. Best explaination I can give - I will get you before you get me. If occasionally they get into the same space, I call the B dog to come, and you can see that she is nervous, but she will come to me immediately. They had co-existed for 6 months when they were first together with no problem. I am just not a proponent of testing the waters at this time to see if they might be better. Rarely they get into this "looking at each other" - but we put a stop to that ASAP. They go on leashed walks together with no problem. I have done a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Please believe me that this is not a "leader of the pack" issue. My dogs are well trained, they know that I am the boss. I wish it would be different, maybe someday it will.

[alligande]

Regarding playing it depends on the dogs. We had a foster puppy for about 6 weeks, he was about 5 months when he came and both my dogs would play with him, they just extended their wrestling games to include him, and we had three dogs in the yard rolling and tumbling. The foster we had before him was nine months and our older dog did not like him as they were competing for my husbands attention so only the younger dog and he played. The most recent foster puppy was about 6-8 months and neither dog wanted to play with him, he was just annoying.

 

I have no experience having more than three dogs in the house, with only two being permanent residents, but our dogs once able to be left uncrated for the safety of our furniture have always been left together in the house and we have had no problems, this has included fosters and house guests.

[bcnewe2]

I have 4 dogs at the moment. They all have their moments but because I say, they make do. I've been blessed to have been able to raise them from puppies with almost 24/7 supervision so none are chewers. I think due to the age of my dogs, (most seniors) I have no issues leaving them unsupervised when I leave. I'm about 99% sure they all just sleep in their chosen spots till I walk in the door.

 

My only male has male on male issues, so the rest are girls, to save myself more management.

 

Julie, I'm still trying to wrap my head around 10 dogs squeezing into the bathroom for our morning meet and greet.

If I had 10 in my tiny house I'd have border collie carpet!

[juliepoudrier]

Kristen,

They all go outside as soon as I get up in the morning, so I generally have the bathroom to myself.

 

(It's entirely possible I'll be down by a couple before the end of the year. )

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Re: the play question, I have found that it's usually two dogs. When a third tries to join in, one of the other two usually stops (for things like tug). With wrestling, sometimes three will play, but usually it's a one-on-one thing here.

 

J.

[border_collie_crazy]

I have 6 dogs myself(2 BCs, 2 ACD X's 1 Toller, 1 JRT X) 5 females, 1 male. also in the house are 2 mix breeds, 1 male, 1 female. so 8 dogs.

 

they dont all nessasirly LIKE eachother, and I do get minor fights and arguments all the time, but nothing serious, in my houseful of girls the only bitch fight problem is Perky and Misty, sometimes Perky tries to pick fights with Misty, buts its only on occasion..few times a year kinda thing.

 

Rusty is the only problem dog, he is kept controlled at all times, with mine he is fine for the most part..when he gets testy I cant really blame him, the girls act as though he is invisable, they walks through him like he isnt there, lay on top of him etc.. so I do have to go out of my way to protect him so he doesnt feel the need to attack them. however he and my moms male have it out for each other, they are decent these days, can walk past eachother without attacking etc.. but they are never ever allowed loose together because one false step on eithers part and you have a death fight on your hands.

[Gloria Atwater]

Since I plan to have more than 1 dog in the future, I was just wondering how well BCs get along with each other in general.

 

From what I've seen they seen to get along very well with other BCs but just wanted to hear your personal experiences.

 

So those with multiple dogs, do all your dogs stay loose together or do you have to crate and rotate??

 

 

You've gotten a lot of good replies, here, so all I can do is offer my own experience.

 

BCs are no different from any other breed, in how they get along. They are so varied in personality that there is no way to predict how any given set of dogs will - or won't - get along. It really "just depends."

 

I have 3 border collies and 1 Aussie. Two of the BCs are Nick and Gael, brother and sister, a little over a year apart. They get along great. They both also get along with the Aussie - although Gael will, occasionally, get into little resource-guarding snarl-matches with both the Aussie and her brother. (Which I nip in the bud, but she has to try.) The third BC is my old Jesse, who is 13. He helped me raise Nick, and once they were the best of pals. But as Nick grew into his 3rd year ... he began challenging old Jesse. Three or four times, it turned ugly, and I couldn't always predict Nick's trigger. So, I regretfully had to start separating them and keeping a close eye on them.

 

Many months have gone by, and now things are pretty amicable. I can let them all out in the yard together to go potty, they hang out together in the house with no incident. But I don't leave Jesse out with Nick for any great length of time, unsupervised, and I never leave the house and leave them together. Nobody has to be crated, just separated when we can't keep watch.

 

I think it's easier, perhaps, if dogs are of a similar age. When one has an old dog and younger dogs, sometimes, as with my boys, the younger may eventually decide it's time to challenge the older dog's authority in the "pack." But sometimes there's no difficulty at all. Again, it depends. However, once you have 3 dogs, the dynamics do start to change.

 

As for playing ... I've seen my Aussie play with 2 of her siblings at once, but it's always *that* close to turning snappish. Two dogs can play nicely together, but if a third is added to the mix, invariably it ends up 2 dogs on 1, and that can turn unpleasant, if the one starts to feel defensive or overwhelmed.

 

When my young dogs are playing, usually it's 2 dogs physically interacting with each other, while the third runs around them without actually engaging in the play. It looks to me as a sort of doggie courtesy, enabling them to avoid that 2-on-1 strife.

 

~ Gloria

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Beachdogz wondered: "...can more than 2 dogs play well together???"

 

I've an intact male and four females -one deeply weird, one Aussie rescue. They grump at each other but that's all they're allowed to do. They don't play much - instead they do what my Border Collies always do for exercise, elaborate,repetitive, mysterious dominance games. Their races ALWAYS have the same winner and the winner won't be the one who has run the fastest farthest but the one who gets to stop nearest me - which changes only when rank changes.

 

Sheepdog packs don't "play" though they enjoy "trying" each other.

 

Because they are clearly having fun, many people assume that what dogs are doing is "like" children playing, ignoring the fact that children play in all sorts of complicated ways (including dominance play) and because "play" exercises the dogs with no effort by the owner and they think it is "cute" and imagine that it's"natural" most owners encourage some form of dog play.

 

Is human "play" so simple? How is the superbowl like a sheepdog trial like a chess game like a video game like making mud pies?

 

Dog "play" isn't simple either.

 

Drop that theory! Open your eyes!

 

Donald McCaig

[Mark Billadeau]

Scene 1

One dog lying on its back legs in the air and mouth in a snarl (not aggressively snarling).

Two dogs standing over the one on the ground, each dog takes turns pouncing on and snapping at the laying dog.

The dog on the ground is enjoying being the center of attention. The other two dogs are enjoying their interaction with the dog on the ground.

 

Scene 2

One dog starts running tight circles and zigzags in the yard. The running dog races at a second dog to get it to chase. The running dog with second dog on its tail races at a third dog to get it to chase. Two dogs are now chasing the first dog around the yard.

 

Scene 3

One dog runs at and then rolls over under the head of another dog which then starts growling, snapping, and holding down on the first dog (not aggressively) while the submissive dog growls back. Another dog then runs in and does the same thing.

 

BTW All dogs in these scenes are intact females.

 

 

[mum24dog]

First- four dogs, all from rescue. Have felt really guilty about the fact that I have to separate two females. I keep them apart through management (mostly fencing). They have had three fights over a year ago, never a mark on either dog ( but the sound was horrible). One dog ( I will call A) has always had attitude. Always been a slightly pushy towards the other dogs (and she is the oldest at 7). Another dog B has always had a issues with fear of other dogs, wind, thunder, you name it - she has attacked A dog when she felt threatened. Best explaination I can give - I will get you before you get me. If occasionally they get into the same space, I call the B dog to come, and you can see that she is nervous, but she will come to me immediately. They had co-existed for 6 months when they were first together with no problem. I am just not a proponent of testing the waters at this time to see if they might be better. Rarely they get into this "looking at each other" - but we put a stop to that ASAP. They go on leashed walks together with no problem. I have done a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Please believe me that this is not a "leader of the pack" issue. My dogs are well trained, they know that I am the boss. I wish it would be different, maybe someday it will.

 

Very similar to the situation between 2 of mine. Nothing to do with hierarchy - they are just scared of each other and coupled with redirected aggression from the larger one and terrier feistiness of the other I can't take any risks because the little one could end up dead because blood is spilt if they ever get together.

It's way beyond the normal noisy scuffle that can be curtailed with an "Oy".

 

I tried to rehome the terrier but he came back after 5 weeks for barking so now we manage with a gate between the front and back of the house.

 

Apart from hating each other the two are the most biddable dogs you could wish for.

 

I think lifestyle comes into it. In a house dogs that don't like each other are forced together too close for comfort. If they have a generally outdoor life they can keep their distance. We do ask such a lot of our dogs in keeping them in a domestic environment and it isn't surprising that sometimes it goes wrong.

[bcnewe2]

(It's entirely possible I'll be down by a couple before the end of the year. )

J.

 

Yes I am looking at the same thing. My oldest is 16 and next in line is around 13+. Can't imagine life without either of my old ladies.

 

What, no meet an greet in the bathroom? No one would go out till we do our little bathroom dance! Cept Mick who could give a rats patoot about bathroom time. He's ready to go out and make sure no neighbor dogs have peeded on his ladies spots!

 

When I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed about having so many dogs in a tiny house I will think of you! Some ask why I keep all of them in the house, I can't imagine not being able to share their lives with me all the time!

[juliepoudrier]

I hear you on the oldsters. Jill, at 15 1/2 is having much more difficulty getting up on her own and I find myself having to regularly rescue her from various situations, but she's still hanging in, tough old girl that she is. Willow appears to have a recurrence of her mast cell cancer and has intermittent bouts of anemia, which could be related to the MCC or perhaps, per the vet, internal bleeds due to something like hemangiosarcoma. Farleigh is 13, but I think he's mean enough to live forever!

 

When I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed about having so many dogs in a tiny house I will think of you! Some ask why I keep all of them in the house, I can't imagine not being able to share their lives with me all the time!

Mine stay in the house for that reason too. They're working dogs, sure, but they're also companions. Fortunately I have a decent amount of room in here, but if it were a smaller space, we'd just make do somehow!

 

J.

[Sue R]

We have a couple that don't get along well in certain situations. Well, one of the two doesn't get along well in certain situations, and it causes issues if they and the situations are not managed.

 

My dogs are fine left loose in the house for reasonable amounts of time - I can be outside for several hours and leave them loose, like if I am mowing the yard. Since the situations are crate-related (and sometimes, personal space by people related), they are not issues at most times.

 

I have found that management, being aware of potential triggers, and being a consistent leader (not always a strong point for me) work well. And, when we are gone to work or need to be out of the house for a while, we often crate *just to avoid* potential issues that we would not be present to prevent.

 

Normally, in our house, it's either everyone in the crate or everyone out but, should our current problems become bigger problems, we would probably do some rotational crating. That is what we do when we have visiting dogs oftentimes - with our three and our daughter's three, or our son's family's two, we either use different parts of the house for each group (we have pass-through baby gates, thank you, Lisa!) or rotationally crate each group since we often don't have sufficient crates in the house for all.

 

PS - Our dogs, like Julie's and Kristen's, are companions as well as farm-working dogs. They live in the house, sleep on their beds in our bedroom, and live their lives with us as part of the family. Thankfully, in spite of mud and cow poop, we can hose them off and bring them in no matter what kind of messes they've faced outside.

[juliepoudrier]

Ah, yes. We've had lots of rain lately. I could probably plant a garden in the amount of dried mud/dirt I've swept off the floor in the past few weeks.

 

For those considering crating and rotating, keep in mind that crating one of the troublemakers and leaving the other loose can still cause problems. When I moved to my last place I automatically crated Willow whenever I left the house (because of her chewing habit). I'd come home to find her water bucket dumped, her crate in obvious disarray, etc. Totally out-of-character crate behavior for Willow. It took me a while to figure it out, but Jill was left loose in the house and apparently she was going over to Willow's crate and picking a fight with her through the crate door, hence Willow making a mess out of her crate. After that, Willow was still crated whenever I left home, and Jill was still left loose, but Jill was baby gated OUT of the area where Willow's crate was so that she couldn't taunt Willow through the crate door....

 

J.

[Sue R]

Very good points, Julie, and we take that into consideration - using the baby gates or separate rooms or making sure that compatible animals are in one area. Sometimes, as in your case, it takes some figuring out to realize what is going to work and what is not.