BCForever Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I bought my first Border Collie from a conformation breeder who is famous for her winning dogs. I had no idea about the war in performance Border Collies vs conformation border collies during this time. I have always have had breeds such as terriers, basset hounds, and overall hard breeds to train that no one really regards conformation vs performance variety. I received this merle, rough coat, border collie puppy at 8 months old, and she was such a beautiful little bundle of joy. However, she soon became very, very sick and turned out to have a parasite as well as an unknown problem that caused her to throw up, have diarrhea, etc... The breeder disappeared from the face of the planet, and the symptoms were confusing the hell out of me, because they would come and go. After a few months, we were able to control her issues by a controlled diet. The vet bill was horrible. Anyways, she now is two years old, and I love her with all my heart. She works well in obedience, and I have learned a lot from her, but she doesn't have a lot of energy, like I have more endurance than her when we run a mile together. Also, I'm really worried about her structural problems. You know, you would never guess that she was suppose to be a conformation dog. She looks like a fluffy performance dog that was born in a barn by Amish Breeders. When I put my hand where her hips are or anywhere near the spine, she quickly backs away from me and acts like she is in pain. When she was a puppy, I noticed the fact that she had a horrible side-winding gait, so I took her the vet, and they said that she is probably going to come out with dysplasia. It says in the pre that she is fair, but I don't want her to get worse with agility, obedience, etc... I have high goals in mind for my performance dog. Also, she came to me with dog aggression issues that we have been getting under control, but nevertheless they are there. I'm really not sure what to do, and people have been telling me different pieces of advice, so I decided to try to make contact with other Border Collie owners. I know one thing, that my next Border Collie is going to be a rescue, and I will forever be a supporter of the against-badly-bred-conformation-dog's side. P.S. I did manage to track down the breeder at a show, and she seemed shocked by how the puppy turned out. I don't plan on giving this dog away, because I lover her and it would be unfair to handover a problem dog health wise, but I just want to do what is best for my dog. So, maybe I should think about getting a new dog and retiring this one to easier jobs? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hi BCForever ~ I'm so, so very sorry to hear of your sweet girl's difficulties. I can imagine how heartbreaking it is. The important thing is, though, that you are loving her and doing the very best you can for her. One thing I would suggest is that, since at 2 years old, she's more or less grown, have you got a current set of x-rays for her hips and lower back? I would definitely recommend doing that, if you haven't already. It might give you a better idea of what she's got going on, now that she's maturing. If she is in pain and seems "off," I would also be careful of high-stress things like agility. I don't know that obedience would be too much stress, and if she enjoys the mental activity with you, it would be a shame to take that partnership away. But I'd want to have a better idea - (and I so feel for you, about more vet bills) - about what she's got going on with her structure. If you really do want to pursue agility and similar performance sports, a more structurally sound dog might be your best option. Not that you'd love your girl any less, but then you wouldn't worry about pressing her beyond her physical abilities or comfort zone. There is certainly no sin in owning more than one border collie! Others will undoubtedly give you more concrete advice and suggestions, so I will wish you and your sweet girl well. Sincerely, Gloria Atwater P.S. My first border collie was nicely bred, but she turned out to have hip dysplasia and I had to retire her from all but light work by age 5. She would have worked through any pain or discomfort, but sometimes we have to make the hard calls, for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCForever Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hello, Gloria Atwater, I appreciate your quick reply, and I am definitely on the search for a veterinarian that can do the correct testing on her. We have moved to a new town, and I have yet to find a suitable veterinarian for a case such as my Border Collie. I am planning to maybe drive her down to another county to a veterinarian who competes in performance events, but I am just not sure if she can do must testing on my border collie. Any tips on specific test to ask for besides the regular OFA testing and x-rays? I forgot to mention that she has always had bad balance. For example, when I was teaching her the teeter-totter, she kept falling off at the end. She wouldn't hurt herself or anything, but she just couldn't keep balanced. Also, when I try to stand her to see her structure, she looks like she is posting, but she can't keep her balance any other way. Everyone at the trainer center that I train at has different ideas of what is wrong. Some say that nothing is wrong and I should just ignore it, but then again, they haven't done much in training -winning wise- although they have trained for a long time. Others just aren't sure what to say, because they hate my dog simply because of the breeder. That is why I'm on here trying to get unbiased opinions. I think I'm going to keep my eye out for a working border collie that needs a home, and I really do hope that I can keeping working this dog in obedience. Although, she has not much energy, but she still can work. Thanks for reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogs & Dogs Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Have you considered nosework? It's definitely a low-impact sport, and since dogs work one at a time and only with their handler, it's a great sport for dogs with issues (such as DA). Training starts with the dog searching for food, but you eventually graduate to odor (birch, anise, clove). A friend of mine has now taught her nosework-trained dog to search for truffles (the very expensive mushrooms)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCForever Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 So you think I should probably retire him to lighter work? Also, I think that tracking would be really interesting, but I don't know why, but my border collies doesn't seem to realize she has a nose. I tried working her one morning, and she was totally oblivious. She stood on top of a hot dog while she tried to look for it. In fact, she practically looked at it, but just totally didn't see it. Well, at least I won't have to worry about distracting smells Although, I'm going to give it another try right after I go scouting for some good books on training tracking dogs. Thanks for the tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelleybean Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I have a friend with a BC with miid hip dysplasia, and she does exercises to strengthen her dogs haunches. He performs beautifully in agility and disc games. Good luck. You have a very lucky BC to have a loving owner like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I just wanted to say that I love your quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hi. I have a badly bred rescue that I have written about extensively on this board. You can search my previous posts. I think that your dog's apparent lack of energy may be because she is painful. I would get a diagnosis and then ask for a referrel to a rehab vet. If your dog does have bad hips, strengthening exercises will go a long way towards making her feel better and and being more active. This has certainly been the case with my dog. Also, as she feels better, he temperment issues may improve. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I've been down that road, buying a dog from a "good" breeder who later turned out to be anything but. . and then having chronic health issues. I would highly recommend getting OFA hip testing and spinal x-rays done, with her special issues I'd have them done at a local rehab vet specialty clinic or at your state's veterinary college. They will be able to help you develop the best plan for your girl. Some of my dogs that I've had with back end issues have done extremely well with chiropractic care from a CERTIFIED veterinary chiropractor. You can look up your local certified veterinary chiropractor at http://www.avcadoctors.com/ And other dogs have benefited from laser treatments. My well-bred pup had a shoulder injury in Oct that wouldn't heal and he's now starting physical therapy after 4 weeks of laser treatments at a veterinary rehab clinic. Laser can be extremely beneficial for hip dysplasia as well. For hip dysplasia you typically do a series of 6 over 3 weeks (costs about $250 total) and then come back for one treatment ($40) every 4-6 months. It does work extremely well. I've seen dogs that couldn't walk well dragging their owners thru the clinic door after one week of treatment. And if you do have joint problems a good glucosamine chondroitin supplement like Glycoflex can help a great deal. Good luck with your pup, she's lucky to have you! And don't worry about what others think, she's your special girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Kudos to you for taking such good care of your dog. I'm very sorry that she's having such difficulties, but you're doing a great thing to do this kind of research. Nosework is what I was thinking. A class with a certified instructor is a good place to start. Your girl may need some help in discovering what her nose is for, but odds are she can smell, she doesn't know what to do with it. My old Shoshone took nosework classes after a bout of Vestibular Syndrome left her with a pronounced tilt to the left. She'd walk in circles without some help. Whenever I'd get out the nosework kit, she'd brighten up and whine with excitement. My instructor always made sure that the 'hide' was somewhere she could get to without too much trouble. A good rehab vet is an excellent place to look for help. After you've gotten help from rehab, think about Rally Obedience. I understand it's lower impact than agility, and more challenging than regular obedience. Good luck with your girl, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 And other dogs have benefited from laser treatments. My well-bred pup had a shoulder injury in Oct that wouldn't heal and he's now starting physical therapy after 4 weeks of laser treatments at a veterinary rehab clinic. Laser can be extremely beneficial for hip dysplasia as well. For hip dysplasia you typically do a series of 6 over 3 weeks (costs about $250 total) and then come back for one treatment ($40) every 4-6 months. It does work extremely well. I've seen dogs that couldn't walk well dragging their owners thru the clinic door after one week of treatment. And if you do have joint problems a good glucosamine chondroitin supplement like Glycoflex can help a great deal. Good luck with your pup, she's lucky to have you! And don't worry about what others think, she's your special girl. I second this recommendation. I have seen a dog that is going through the laser treatments and they are seeing good results. The dog was limping so bad and having a hard time walking (a Bernese Mt. Dog) and is doing noticeably better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCForever Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thanks for all the replies! I really do appreciate the advice, and I'm starting my search for a veterinarian, planning to get my girl in the vet building as soon as possible for an appointment. I will also definitely look for a rehab vet or try to at least get some type of plan from the hospital I plan on taking her to. I forgot to mention one other thing. My border collie, whenever I leave the house, can never hold her pee. Her kennels always becomes like a lake when I come home. I have to take her out every two hours or keep her with me in order to keep her pee-free. Does anyone else have this issue? Also, it isn't like she drinks a lot. If anything, I have to give her water by hand, because she never wants to drink. It makes it nearly impossible for me to leave the house without her, even though she doesn't mind that I will one hundred percent try to work with her more on tracking, and I think she will learn to love it. It will definitely be great practice for me on learning how to be patient, although I thought I already learned how to be patient when I trained a Basset Hound @Jedismom Thanks! I appreciate the compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCjetta Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 For the pee thing. Does she know she's doing it or does it seem to leak out of her? It would be a good idea to get her urine checked by a vet (make sure its not too dilute). Some females can have urinary incontinence and leak urine as soon as they relax. Also, is she capable of holding her urine all night? If she's fine all night but can't hold it when you leave, is it possible she is having some separation anxiety? I know they can have issues holding their pee when they get anxious and stressed. As for drinking, a normal dog should drink a max of 1oz/pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCForever Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Thanks for the reply She definitely knows if when she is about to go pee. She will come and find me then literally use her paws to whack me on top of my head or chew my arm while whimpering. If she is in a kennel, then she will cry until someone lets her go out to relieve herself then she will return to the kennel peacefully. At night, she does seem to hold it, usually. Also, she doesn't really leak it out, but more pours it out like any dog peeing. It might be separation anxiety, but If it is, then I have no idea how to deal with it. Also, she doesn't seemed stress. She is to smart. I never catch her crying or whimpering, but some people say that she cries horribly when I'm gone. However, these are people who have no real knowledge about dogs, so I'm not sure what they mean and if they are being serious. I try to hide or go a good distance away to see if she cries, but she never does. In the even she does start to cry and I can hear her, but I'm pretty far away from the house, she stops as soon as I even take one step towards her direction. I swear to god she knows when I'm coming back to scold her for barking Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I think once you have a medical work-up done and find the problem, you will then be on your way to straightening this out. I agree with the posts that suggest that many of your dog's problems (like temperament and even others) may all go back to pain. My second German Shepherd had hip dysplasia. She was a high-in-trial dog through Utility (and probably would have gone on much longer if the jump heights had been lowered back then.) That was how we discovered it...never knew she was dysplastic until she began having trouble with the jumps (she began to "use" the jump with her back feet.) Took her to the vet and upon feeling her, vet said, "I doubt if she's dysplastic - she's so solid back here....but we're gonna x-ray her." Vet came back with the x-rays and said, "Well, I sure was wrong...worst hips I ever saw...BUT...she has so much muscle built up back there, you would never know until now." Point is, dysplasia does not have to mean the end of exercise or sports...actually, all the exercise my dog got improved her quality of life. I never saw any sign of pain until she was older. So I think finding out the problem, and pain management, will probably be the way to go...and it might surprise you what she can do, depending on the diagnosis. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. She's a lucky girl to have someone who will keep her (and keep her busy) no matter what the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/getting-started-nose-work Read the above link for a description of starting some Nosework with your dog. And, Nosework isnt't the same as tracking. It uses the same basic skills, but the dog is taught to find a particular scent, not follow a trail. A subtle distinction, perhaps, but an important one. Any dog, like my creaky old, tilt headed Shoshone, can do Nosework. Tracking is a higher order of work. About the peeing, have you had her checked for a urinary tract infection? One of those can make you feel like death warmed over. If she's got one, it would be contributing to her overall lack of energy, and even her hind end soreness. I'd ask for a sterile culture, where they pull urine from the bladder with a needle and syringe, and a culture, rather than just an exam. You never know. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Sorry to hear about your problems with your dog, and I commend you for doing your best to try and make the best life you can for your dog. I know that she has landed in a good home. I think a lot of the bases have been covered and will repeat them here for emphasis: Urination problem: medical work-up including blood work and urine culture Back-end issues: Definitely !!! find a well regarded rehabilitation vet. They can be worth their weight in gold. Although well-meaning, general vets are not equipped to deal with the more complex orthopedic issues that it sounds like your dog is suffering. Been there, done that. They (the general vet) will take X-rays and do a hands-on exam and then suggest a diagnosis and maybe some meds, but it is nowhere near the experience and knowledge of a good rehab vet. (The rehab vet I use has some clients that will drive 3-4 hours to see her.) A good rehab vet is usually knowledgeable about chiropractic, maybe acupuncture, laser treatment in addition to the traditional Western approaches. One-stop shopping. It is not outside the realm of possibility that if you can improve her hip/back end issues, that other issues may improve - higher energy, less aggressive, more stamina, decrease of urination problems, etc. And I also like the idea of trying some Nosework with your dog. yes, Nosework is different than tracking and may be a good diversion until your dog is feeling better. Try some tracking then. Best of Luck, Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 This is also a thought, could you continue with agility but at a really low height, 4" or a bar on the ground, so the exercises become handling games, with no jumping. No contacts either, just tunnels and really low jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just wanted to say that I love your quote! Me too! And your name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjohanna Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hi -- I am sorry to read about the structural and health problems of your girl. FWIW, you're not alone in that boat: I have a Sheltie who is from a top (okay, maybe I should say "top") Sheltie breeder and who has: moderate to severe hip dysplasia due to a deformed hip socket; such poor dentition that he gets bacteria-filled pockets in his gums periodically; lumbar spondylosis by age 2; has had cancer (successfully removed, knock wood) -- he's 13 1/2 now and is a very, very old dog, much older than my other Shelties of that age. It's quite sad. For your girl, my suggestions (things that have helped me and my dogs) are: --Find a good chiropractor and have regular adjustments done, four times a year or more frequently as needed. --If you can find a hydrotherapy facility in your area, a course of hydro visits (walking on a treadmill that is underwater in a heated pool) would really help the back end build up some strength, and you could then maintain that through strengthening exercises and walking hills with the dog. --The best preservative-free and low-grain or no-grain diet you can manage. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence (and may be scientific evidence too, I don't know) that a high level of cereal grains in the diet of dog or human will contribute to inflammatory conditions (arthritis, for one) in the body and aggravate the discomfort. I have fed a raw natural diet for 13 years and it's helped all my senior dogs noticeably. It also helped one of my Shelties live with cancer for a remarkably long time. Http://www.cinnamondog.com --A good herbal supplement that includes some painkillers. I would not go to drugs anytime soon, though you may need them later if she is in great discomfort, but supplements like Arth9 are great. I would, as others have said, look for low-impact things to do. Agility is out. Rally obedience is probably out, since all the sits and downs can be taxing on the hips and spine. Tracking or nosework would be good, I agree. If there is any way she can swim regularly, that would be super. As for getting another BC: I got my first (and so far only) BC two years ago from a rescue in my area. He's young, physically sound, a real comedian, a wizard agility dog, and has stock-work ability too. I'm a big, big fan of rescues, because my experiences with breeders have been so bad and my experiences with rescues have been so good. Good luck. You can manage the physical conditions she's got, I hope you find resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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