Indoor vs outdoor agility trials

[Blackdawgs]

I have to say that after watching many of the agility trial videos, I'm struck by how many folk get to trial indoors...and I'm insanely jealous.

 

Around here, we train and trial outdoors. Sometimes the trials are held on ball fields and sometimes on fields surrounded by pastured horses and cattle. The bigger trials are held in ag arenas. I'm told that there is at least one outdoor facility in the state that is within spitting distance of sheep. If we are lucky, our rings are surrounded by 2 foot high temporary fencing.

 

How many of you folks who regularily train and trial indoors, think that your dogs would stay with you outdoors?

[airbear]

How many of you folks who regularily train and trial indoors, think that your dogs would stay with you outdoors?

If there were sheep on the other side of a 2' snow fence, I might have trouble keeping one of my dogs in the ring. I suspect, though, that no one would be rash enough to set up a scenario in which livestock could be harmed/chased.

 

We trial indoors in the winter, and outdoors in the summer. We've trialled with cows in the adjacent pastures, with rabbits that make suicide runs through the ring, and with Canada Geese who need to be cleared from the field in the morning. I've never had a problem keeping my dog with me during a course.

[arf2184]

There are both indoor and outdoor trials around here. Outdoor trials are in the late spring, summer, and early fall to avoid the snow. The closest trials to me are indoors year around at a private arena (like a big barn/shop) and are either NADAC or Australian Shepherd club trials.

 

The last outdoor trial I went to as a spectator had no fences, just roped off rings with people and dogs on all sides.

 

We do not compete yet, but Meg and I train indoors in class and in our fenced yard at home. Meg is great at staying with next to me on walks, but I do have trouble keeping her focus when there are distractions. I think at this point, Meg would do better indoors locally in NADAC trials where there is no teeter and distractions are only on one side. (We have a long way to go until we start trialing.)

[alligande]

I train in a horse arena year round, which can make for for some silly moments when your trainer is telling you to run but you are wearing enough clothes to become the size of the michelin man.

Our first year of trialing was all outside, but the group that puts on most of the NADAC trials have moved their trials indoors to a very new soccer facility. I now also do USDAA at the same venue. They also have AKC trials there.

I do enjoy being outside, and have never worried about the snow fencing around the ring, as I am lucky even though Brody used to leave the ring he never wanted to go anywhere. BUT being in New England means that it can snow in April and be a 100 in summer, so the A/C soccer facility has proved to be great, we now have trials all summer long. The downside is that there are no dog events in the winter as that is soccer season and they have no interest in renting out the facility.

[SecretBC]

I would compete more outdoors if given the chance. Unfortunately outdoor season is remarkably short in the upper midwest. Our snow can start to arrive any time in October and can stick with us into May, so only the brave schedule outdoor trials for anytime in that period. From the end of June to the beginning of September can be 90+ degrees with high humidity and most people don't really care to run their dogs outside in that weather. So we typically see outdoor trials only in May, June, September and early October.

 

My dogs love running outside. We train outside.

 

I hate running on mats. Hate it. And turf varies by facility -- Some I like, some I don't. The dogs love dirt, but we don't have many dirt trials around here (and not many horse arenas are climate controlled anyhow). But if you want to trial year round in this part of the country, you learn to run on various surfaces. I know a few people who will not run their dogs on mats and that drastically cuts down their options. I just do what I can to make it better for my dogs (trim all the hair off the bottom of their feet, use sticky spray, etc.).

 

I feel fortunate that we are able to run year round, though -- Because trialing only three or four months of the year would be kind of depressing. Winters up here are depressing enough without being able to do agility. It's bad enough that I can't train in the winter -- At least we get to go to trials!

[SecretBC]

It is worth mentioning that there are a lot of competitors in this area who WON'T compete outside. These are people who always train indoors and don't trust their dogs outside. Some outdoor trials put up 4' snow fence around the arena to try to get those people to come, but most are too scared to try. Other trials don't care about those people and just use caution tape to fence off the ring.

 

It's a personal choice. I didn't run my little dog at outside trials for his first year of trialing because I didn't trust him. Hell, he ran off at indoor shows. lol His breed is known for running and every breeder I know says, "Never let them off leash, EVER."

 

He is now doing well enough that I have no problem running him outdoors, no fence needed. But it took a while to get there and I planned his trial schedule accordingly while we worked on his focus.

 

But yes, there are plenty of people up here who become complacent and never branch out of their comfort zone. I can't even begin to tell you how many people from the training facility in my area have never even trialed at another location. They don't feel they have to, since the facility hosts a minimum of one trial a month. I think it's sad that they have never pushed themselves to even travel to a new location to see if their dog can work on different equipment.

[Root Beer]

We train inside in the late fall and winter and outside in late spring, summer, and early fall. There are chickens and sheep visible to the dogs most of the time when we train outside. Sometimes the sheep are pastured next to the field and there is only chain link between the dog running and the sheep. The dogs learn to ignore the animals. They are always just there and they are never allowed to interact with them.

 

So, if I go to a trial and there are sheep nearby, I don't worry about it. All I have to say to Dean is, "Look at the sheep" and he knows he's there to do Agility. It's pretty nice.

 

I know most places aren't set up like that, but the owner of the training center where I train likes her animals. Even when we train indoors, the dogs hear birds chirping in the adjacent office, and chickens squawking outside. They all learn to ignore it because the sounds are always there. I find it's an advantage when we go out and about to trial and there are farm animals nearby.

 

One time the sheep were pastured in another area on the other side of the training building and a loose dog from the neighborhood (not a student's dog) got into the area with the sheep. Since the dog could not be controlled, she ended up letting her sheep out of the area and they went running through the parking lot, through the area where the dogs were hanging out, past the Agility field, and into another pasture. She knew they would go there on their own and it was the only way to get them away from the uncontrollable dog.

 

Most of our dogs were downright surprised - Maddie was. She just stared like, "huh?" Everyone with Border Collies went running into the field and they closed the gate behind them. The dog and handler running on course just kept going like nothing had happened! It was very funny. It wouldn't have been if anything had happened to dogs or sheep, but all ended well. We still laugh, though, at the looks on most of our dogs faces as the sheep went running through there.

 

FWIW, I have to run Dean outdoors most of the time because indoor Agility trials are louder. Things echo and noises are often magnified. There is one place I run him indoors that has a rubber mulch floor that absorbs all of the sounds, so it works for him. But mostly I run him outside.

 

I do both with Maddie - indoors and outdoors. She actually tends to stay with me just as well, regardless of whether we are inside of outside. Outside can be tough for her with weather. She does not run in pouring rain and she does not run when it's too hot.

 

Generally, I prefer outdoor trials. I like the atmosphere and I find it's just more fun. But I enjoy indoor trials, too.

[Carlasl]

We have NO outdoor trials here and I desperately wish there were at least a few, I have a noise sensitive dog and she is a completely different dog outdoors than indoors. We have a indoor horse arena that the majority of trials are at, and there are a couple of indoor soccer complexes that we have summer trials at (A/C is very nice for those), but no one does anything outdoors.

 

We are currently training outdoors (backyard and with a trainer with equipment outside) but the facility I started at is a wonderful indoor building with very nice mats.

 

We are going to our first trial (to compete) in a couple weeks, guess I will see how it goes.

[brndlbc]

Most of our trials are now indoors out of the elements but when I first started competing way back when there was no such thing as an indoor trial. Now many people won't enter an outdoor trial because of the risk of bad weather. These are the very same people that would freeze, fry, blow away etc just to do agility.

 

At a NADAC trial years ago I asked to have my dog moved down in the run order. Gate Steward asked "why" and I pointed to our pop up tent that was blowing away like a tumbleweed. It rained and snowed that weekend, the courses were covered in mud and water. It was miserable but those were the things you put up with.

[alligande]

I have not been playing agility long, this will be my 3rd season, but in our first year I went to a trial in October and it was pouring, it was pouring when I left home and my husband who races sailboats wondered why I was going. Well I had payed my money and I was going to play. Even Brody thought it was nuts and was not happy every time I brought him out the truck to run, blinking at me, but he was willing to play so I had some giggles and would go back and play in the rain. That said when I got home the football game was on and I was a bit shocked to see snow in Gillette Stadium, the trial was only about 2 miles away! no wonder that rain was cold.........

[rufftie]

i think i was at that trial alligande! we were also at a oct outdoor trial in the drenching rain a yr or so ago. by the end of the day, the dogs refused to get out of the car to run. i gave in to their higher intelligence and called it a day!

[gcv-border]

Here in SW VA, there are no indoor training facilities that I know of. (at least there isn't one where an entire course can be set up. There are a couple of indoor sites that are generally used for obedience, rally, puppy & tricks training where a few obstacles can be set up.) Training occurs outdoors when weather permits. Last year I think we had about a 2.5-3 month hiatus due to a very snowy winter.

 

Depending on how far one wants to drive, many trials are outside with the 2'fencing around the rings.

 

Most of the local dogs that I know that get distracted during a run and disconnect from their handler would do it whether they were outside or inside.

 

I haven't been trialing long (2 years off and on), but have come to appreciate the importance of good footing. My trainer will not run her dogs on grass (except for the local trial that she helps to manage) due to her concern about footing. I am not that worried about grass at this point (maybe due to my inexperience), but Torque does not do well on indoor mats since he is ballistic fast. (I am in the process of teaching him tight, controlled turns so he doesn't 'spin out' on the tight courses.)

 

Jovi

[tim62988]

so far i have only been doing a once a week class with my pup and here in upstate NY we have been indoors but the trainer said that this summer we're going to take everything outside and give it a go

 

 

does anyone have any tips/suggestions for the transition from indoors to outdoors?

 

i'm going to start using a long lead but would really like to get to a decent level of outdoor agility control

[Root Beer]

does anyone have any tips/suggestions for the transition from indoors to outdoors?

 

I would highly recommend Give Me a Break from Control Unleashed. That will give you a tool to help your dog transition focus back to you if the great out doors is very distracting. If you start teaching it soon, you will have it at your disposal this summer.

 

Also, they do get used to running outside and it gets easier. But that game really helps me with outdoor class glitches when they come up.

[SS Cressa]

We compete inside and outside. And we train inside and outside. Never been overly close to livestock while competing so don't actually know what my dogs would do. Cressa I think might show interest if we were far enough away from the ring. But for cressa agility is WORK and gosh darn if anything will come between her and work. She hates gunshots, thunder, and not fond of kids, yet has played agility though gunshots, thunder, and kids hanging off the ring. We played agility in downfalls without cressa noticing.

 

Troy is more easily distracted so am not sure what he would do actually. He is more fond of people then animals so I am pretty sure he would ignore them too. He might wuff a couple of time but if everyone is ignoring it he would settle too I think.

[SS Cressa]

A fox played in the agility ring during the night. While other dogs got distracted Cressa nor Troy even noticed. We complete near a pond filled with geese. Troy want to chase Tue geese outside the ring but once inside he did what I asked of him...

[alligande]

Control unleashed is a great book, and will provide lots of tools to help but nothing replicates the experience of being outside or at a trial. I have read a lot of stuff on agility lists about the need to proof your dog before you begin trialing, but in reality you can not replicate the experience. When Brody and I started he left the ring due to stress, but never bolted just waited for me to come to my senses that we were done playing.

After the first couple of trials this stopped and now the only thing I have to watch is him visting ring workers and judges, as he is a very social animal and I believe thinks the only point of trials is to collect as many belly rubs as possible.

Just when I thought we had solved the distraction problems we entered our second USDAA trial, I was not concerend as it at the same indoor venue as the NADAC trials we go to and we had already played USDAA there. Well he was very distracted and unfocused and being rather dense it took me being a ring worker in one class to get the dogs view and realized that he was being distracted by the dogs in the masters ring. The first time we had competed in a 2 ring trial they had pulled these curtains that they use to divide the soccer fields and this time they were open. Once I realized what was happening we placed first and Qd in jumpers.

 

Another couple of weeks I will find out how Rievaulx copes with the stress, but he has been able to work off leash with other dogs running courses since he was a puppy, like Cressa once he is working with me it is all about playing the game, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[brndlbc]

One of things that I do that helps with the outdoor issue is I keep some equipment in the "dog" van especially weave poles. If we are out and about and I see a place that is suitable to set up a quick sequence, I will do so. It is not uncommon to see me at one of the local malls putting up weave poles and jumps in a grassy area. I do have off lead control and always set the situation up in my favor. That off lead control was established prior to much of our agility training and is considered one of the key elements to our "foundation".

 

I also will just go out into an area and work handling drills on the flat. This could be anything from turning into me, away from me, get out, go around "that" tree etc. Our training bag goes every where so we find training opportunities in some of the most unlikely of places.

[mum24dog]

Outdoors from April - October here with maybe around 6 indoor shows during the winter.

 

There would be more winter shows but the problem is availability of venues that are large enough for around 6 rings and to accommodate 2.5k runs in the day. We don't compete on mats, always equestrian surfaces.

Crufts is the only competition run on astroturf type carpet and some top handlers refuse to run their dogs on it even if they qualify.

 

Outdoor rings are normally just roped off. Proximity of livestock varies but not usually very closs although maybe in sight. The main distraction for dogs tend to be sheep poo in the rings if the venue owner hasn't taken his flock off early enough. Most dogs work on regardless though.

 

We train as a club in a large barn in winter, out in the field in summer with horses, cows and sheep in adjacent fields. Rabbits are a bigger worry though but they tend to stay clear of the field itself.

 

We also have our own equipment in a field that we share with sheep, with visiting ducks and hens. There used to be no barrier between us and them but now there is a low sheep fence - not to keep the dogs from the sheep, but to keep the sheep from trampling the equipment. Some of our dogs I trust there, others I don't. Our BC totally ignores the sheep.

 

It will be interesting going outdoors with "my" new dog. She belongs to a friend and is a BC x Springer with little recall when on the job for which the latter half of her was bred, or so I'm told. Luckily her owner will fully understand if she goes missing while in my care.

[MaryP]

This all seems strange to me. We trial almost exclusively outdoors. I have only once trialed indoors (didn't much care for it). Regardless of whether you trial outdoors or in, your dog should not leave you in the ring. If it does, you are not ready to be trialing, IMO.

 

My dog is rarely on a leash unless I am required to have him on a leash. I've never feared that he'd run away because he has no intention of being very far from me. I always thought that was one of the great things about border collies. They live to work with/please their person, and because of that, leashes are more for convenience rather than for control. At least that's been my experience. Now if you are talking about non-bc breeds, I could see some being not-so-trustworthy off leash (e.g., many terrier breeds). But still, no dog that is at the competition level should be leaving the ring regardless of the trial venue. Again, in my opinion.

[mum24dog]

At a NADAC trial years ago I asked to have my dog moved down in the run order. Gate Steward asked "why" and I pointed to our pop up tent that was blowing away like a tumbleweed. It rained and snowed that weekend, the courses were covered in mud and water. It was miserable but those were the things you put up with.

 

One year (in June) we had to call a halt at lunchtime on one of the days of our show when an A frame blew over in the ring. Tents and awnings were flying everywhere and a large tree was cracking and threatening to fall on some caravans that had to be moved swiftly.

 

And one April show in Scotland it was bright and sunny the first day, blizzard conditions the next.

 

Happy days!