Connie Clevland

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

I was just wondering if anyone on these boards has heard of and used Connie Cleveland's method of obedience training. I have her DVD's but I am just not sure about her methods. I am really against using the ear pinch method to teach the retrieve and she does use that method. To me it is too "old school". Any opinions out here?

Thanks,

Audrey

[The Good Shepherd]

Hi Audrey

 

I had the good fortune to attend one of her seminars in 2009 along with my best friend. I took my BC Bandit because he would NOT retrieve the dumbell!!!!

Connie did have me in and demonstrated the earpinch with Bandit - and long and behold it worked! Connie is a very very nice person, I have e-mailed her with a couple of problems I was having and she e-mailed me back very quickly with good advice and was very very nice about it.

 

As for her methods:

I train taking what works for me and my dog from each and very source!

I do not believe there is a trainer out there with all the answers for everybody!

Try out some of her methods, keep what works, discard the rest

 

OH,

 

 

Merry X-mas

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

Thank you so much for your reply. I know exactly what you mean about no one trainer has all of the answers. Unfortunately, some of them sure think they do! You have a very Merry Christmas also.

Audrey

[Journey]

She's a wonderful person and while some may not agree with her methods - they work very well when done correctly. And she's easily approached with questions.

[rushdoggie]

I have taken a seminar as an auditor because my dog club sponsored it, and even though I don't always agree with everything she does, yes, I agree she is a very nice lady and is a great example of someone who uses aversives and is not even slightly abusive to her dogs. At the time I had a dog who consistently broke stays, and when someone suggested my dog as one with a stay problem she asked a lot of questions and suggested (accurately) that her stay problem was fear based and correcting her would be a bad idea. I was pretty impressed.

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

I have one more question about a trainer. Anyone know of Bridget Carlsen? I have watched her videos on her website and like what I see. She has a set of DVD's but I have emailed her and she told me they were motivational. Everything I have read about people that have attended her seminars is very positive, so I am not sure whether I want to invest in yet another DVD set. Any thoughts on this? I guess I need inspiration and well as instruction.

Thanks again,

Audrey

[brndlbc]

I know Bridget, mostly from agility. I have never trained with her but have seen her work her dogs in both agility and obedience. She seems to have a great working relationship with them in both rings. Here she is at the Invitational (don't know if it is one her website or not)

 

 

 

and in agility

 

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

Oh, I really enjoyed watching those Videos. I had never seen her compete in Agility before. I really like her and the way she trains her dogs. Yes, you are right, she has a great relationship with her dogs. She starts them really young. Had I known then what I now know, I would have done that too.

One more person I am curious about, Janice Gunn. Anyone know of her training methods? I also have her DVD's, can you tell I am a DVD nut? I haven't watched them for quite a while. I need to sit and watch these again. I think I need to just work my dog instead of collecting all of these training DVD's, don't you?

Audrey

[brndlbc]

At one point I think you would probably want to start using the information in the DVDs otherwise they just become expensive coasters sitting on end tables......

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

Gee, I never looked at them as expensive coasters, but I guess I will have to begin to see them in that light!

[MicheleS.]

I've attended seminars by both of these ladies. Connie Cleveland years ago when I was first starting out in obedience. I liked her, learned alot and probably employed a few of her methods over the years. I'm not a fan of an ear pinch and luckily I've never felt I needed it for any of my 3 obedience dogs. Nothing to lose by going to one of her seminars and as someone already said, you take away what will work for you and your particular dog.

Just recently attended a Bridget Carlsen seminar in October. OMG, loved it!! I want more of what she has going! I love the style of her dogs. That's not for everyone of course but that's what I want from my dogs and that's what I like to see in the ring. Not too many instructors out there that I would consider going to a 2nd seminar, but she is one of them. I've taken away alot of stuff from her seminar and am using it with both of my dogs and I love what I see from them. It's the over the top attitude and the enthusiasm and their willingness to do the work for me and with me with that attitude. I would definitely recommend going to her seminar. She's coming back to within driving distance from me in the Spring and I am going to try hard to get into that seminar!

She does have a website with a few videos worth watching.

[shysheperdess]

LOVE Bridget!! Hve attended a handful of her seminars and follow her methods pretty closely!!Her highly motivational techniques have been awesome for my border collies!!! She has a great balance of work and fun threaded into her methods and her accomplishments speak for themselves Plus her dogs are just a joy to watch work....there are a ton of videos of her training up her youngest one on you tube..check em out

[Pam Wolf]

Over 30 years ago when doing obedience with my first BC I had a choice of ear pinch or toe pinch to teach the retrieve. I opted for neither. Now we have much more advanced techniques and while an ear pinch, or shock collar/dog on board/toe pull as demo'ed in a video at Cabella's might work, there are other methods that work just as well and do less harm to the dog and your relationship.

[shysheperdess]

SIGH....knew this would happen..people hear the term "ear pinch" and get all up in arms...

 

The OP didn't start this discussion to debate the use of an ear pinch...I believe she wanted some opinions on these specific trainers from people who have attended there seminars or are familiar with there style of training...she has gotten some great insight, also great advice from many of us who have attended our share of clinics/seminars......TAKE WHAT YOU WANT, DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND YOUR DOG, WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH..............................AND LEAVE THE REST.

 

Connie Cleveland is a highly respected trainer and I wouldn't discredit her training methods just because she uses an ear pinch..or a way of teaching that you don't necessarily understand...

 

I would strongly sudgest however, anyone interested in getting into the sport of competitive obedience(watching DVD's, going to seminars, deciding on trainers..) please try to keep an open mind.....any method used incorrectly will not get desired results and certain methods or ideas on training aren't for everyone....

 

I have not had to personaly use an ear pinch on my dogs but I know those who have and it worked extremely well for them and there dogs have excellent and happy retrieves(and there relationship with there dog is in no way damaged)...it is not an "old school" method...but is one that needs to be done correctly by someone experienced in using it...

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

Shysheperdess, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to get some feedback from people that have attended Connie's seminars and also, Janice Gunn and Bridget Carlsen.

 

I have seen, in person, a woman and her BC at a local fun match, that had been trained by both Connie and Ann Marie Silverton. I had never, and I mean NEVER, seen a dog so well trained and so happy to be working with it's owner. I was totally impressed with the training technique used. So, I had inquired about who trained that dog and then found Ann Marie and Connie.

 

I agree completely, that you have to use what you feel comfortable with and what works for you and your companion. I, unfortunately, have a very abnormal relationship with my BC. She, to me, is a human with some fur on her body! She is my very best friend and the love of my life and very spoiled. We train but when the fun is gone, we quit for the day. So, there are some methods I will not use to get her to do the exercises. I work through the problem and try another method until we get it.

 

I will give you an example of this:

We were having many problems with the teeter, so I built one for home and started on the lowest rung possible. After conquering that, we raised it and finally, after about only 1 week, had it up to the proper height. Now she flies over the teeter. That is my method of training and it works for us. I do not like to force her to do things she is afraid of, and I am in no hurry to compete in any of the venues, so if it takes a bit longer, fine with me. I want her confident and happy. I guess that is why, you are so right to use what works for you and your dog.

 

I have enjoyed reading through all of these posts, so thank you all for your comments.

 

Audrey

[Northof49]

Shysheperdess, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to get some feedback from people that have attended Connie's seminars and also, Janice Gunn and Bridget Carlsen.

 

I have seen, in person, a woman and her BC at a local fun match, that had been trained by both Connie and Ann Marie Silverton. I had never, and I mean NEVER, seen a dog so well trained and so happy to be working with it's owner. I was totally impressed with the training technique used. So, I had inquired about who trained that dog and then found Ann Marie and Connie.

Audrey

 

I have seen some of the things Anne Marie Silverton does - Several years ago, she was going to be charged with animial cruelty up here in Canada due to whipping a dog with a riding crop to demonstrate how to deal with a dog with dog agression issues, however, the club that brought her in , got wind of it,and got her on a plane back to the States before the Police could serve her. It was all on tape.

[Journey]

Did you yourself witness this? Do you have the tape? If it was taped why no charges? Third party gossip or a case of envy?

[Northof49]

Did you yourself witness this? Do you have the tape? If it was taped why no charges? Third party gossip or a case of envy?

 

Did you not read my entire post? - The incident was taped. The tape was taken to the Police. The Police charged her with animal cruelty, but the club got her out of the Country before she could be served with the Summons to appear in Court. The Summons would have been under a City Bylaw and would expired in about a year for that type of charge.

 

It's not gossip - I don't repeat "gossip".

[Journey]

Oh I read your post. Where's the paper trail? Public records? Do they have public online access? Why couldn't she be convicted even if she was absent since there was the tape? While I have met AMS twice (and was thoroughly unimpressed) I find it questionable that she did what you claim - not a 100% doubtful but enough to ask for "proof".

[Pam Wolf]

perhaps a bit off topic, but a riding crop would not cure dog aggression, only mask it til a later time. This is regardless of the incident happening or not. Better to use the crop on the handler.

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

That is very unfortunate about AMS. I don't know her, just know of her training and many top trainers here in So. Calif. have been trained with her methods and are the very top winning Obedience dogs. It would break my heart to know that she used such a violent method on a dog, for whatever the reason. I had never heard of her doing such things, but anything is possible. Sad isn't it? Hearing stuff like this makes me sick. Our dogs are with us for such a short time, why would anyone beat them for any reason? I hope it isn't true, but if it is, I feel that it will come back at her sooner or later.

 

Happy New Year everyone. See you next year!

[shysheperdess]

Chi-Anns mom, I wouldn't believe any rumors...AMS is a very succesful trainer, whose series of famous DVD's have helped build many a succesful trainer/handler...and I doubt there are ANY sections in her DVD's that have a "whip/beating" session...so I think you're safe...even if she did make a poor decision, or her actions were mis-construed in some way the sucess of her training and the success passed down to her students should speak something...Look at the dogs that compete being trained using her methods...do they look like they have been mis-treated in some way...from the awesome partnerships i've seen compete at the highest level..NO, they are a joy to watch..

 

The other trainer/handlers you mentioned are wonderful as well...

 

I think your best bet would be to find a succesful trainer/handler(who has achieved AT LEAST a UD or equivilant, preferably at least an OTCH or equivilant) in the area who can be your mentor....private lessons are best until you get a good foundation...

 

I cannot stress how valuable a good mentor is!!! Someone to guide you, help you, who can spot your mistakes and give sudjestions that you might not be able to see yourself and give you excellent handling tips!!!

 

If you can't find a mentor in your area at least try and find someone you can train with who can watch you who can critique your handling and dogs position!! I still after all these years have multiple "training buddies"!!!!

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

I guess I am a DVD junkie, but I did order Bridget Carlsen's new DVD's and I watched the first one last night. She is awesome! I see why her dogs are so "up" in the ring, they are like that all of the time. She certainly keeps them happy and excited. I can't wait to start to train with her methods of getting them so happy. She is totally different then any of the trainers I have taken classes with. The people here are way too serious and the dogs are not having fun and are certainly not happy to work for their people. This is going to be a very fun ride. Now, I will get into Obedience as this is what it should be all about, FUN!

[Chi-Ann's Mom]

Shysheperdess, I agree with you 100% about AMS. I have seen many of her students in the ring and their dogs work happy and consistently. I don't know what these people on here have heard or seen but I can't believe you can get a dog to work the way these dogs work and have been beat with a crop. That is ridiculous. I have been watching Bridget's DVD's and she is such a kick. She sure does like her dogs "up". They are quite something to watch. She does a lot of Jackpotting, and encourages them to think for themselves. I have never seen this kind of training before. I tried it with my BC and so far, she likes it lots. I will just take what I learn and use it along with the other trainers I am currently studying.

I have a man that will work with me about 40 minutes away, which is no big deal for me at all. He is really good, but I am not sure he has done a lot with Obedience. I did try to train with another lady in the same local, but after seeing her at a show and being in a class with her, no, she wasn't for me at all. Her dogs are not consistent and she is definitely not a people trainer.

The only trainer I know of is about a 2 hour drive away and very very expensive. But, her dogs work amazingly great, and she is another AMS student. She has a great reputation down here in So. CA. Maybe when I get up to a cerain level I can seek out her advice, but I am not ready for that at this time. I just have to get off my butt, and out in the freezing cold, and work my girl. I want to get her familiar with the obstacles of obedience. Bridget said she never runs a course with any of her dogs until she gets to a show. That is the only time she runs an obedience routine with them. She trains one part at a time and does not put it all together until showtime. Interesting concept. It sure does work for her.

Audrey