I hate to say I told ya so but...

[juliepoudrier]

Oh yes, I've seen that site. I've been taking Willow to Cary for visits with an oncologist and was looking for a place that sold premium dog food near VSH. I found Pet Pad online, but once I saw that they sold mill puppies I decided I could find someplace else to buy food. Slick marketing though--a good way to make people feel good about buying their mill puppy from a family kennel. Gag.

 

J.

[jdarling]

HERE is another discussion thread from a different board a while back that I found doing a search. Apparently Pet Pad is formerly known as Petland. No wonder.

[sea4th]

The fact that this miller --- er. I mean professional breeder, sits on a state Pet/Animal Advisory Board --- something smells rotten in the state of Kansas.

 

Petland, after some unsavory but true publicity, faded from the public eye. It doesn't surprise me that they've come back to continue the business of profiteering under another name. Change the name, pay for a slick ad guy to promote a squeaky clean image, and you're good to go.

 

"Professional Breeder" -- gag gag. Wonder if they'll put up pics of their less than savory suppliers

[Sue R]

The fact that this miller --- er. I mean professional breeder, sits on a state Pet/Animal Advisory Board --- something smells rotten in the state of Kansas..."Professional Breeder" -- gag gag. Wonder if they'll put up pics of their less than savory suppliers

Much more important is that they are a "family-owned" business. Keep on gagging - all sorts of "comforting" descriptions don't change a thing.

[aphillippi]

Much more important is that they are a "family-owned" business. Keep on gagging - all sorts of "comforting" descriptions don't change a thing.

 

 

Oh good greif is that PetLand of Wichita, KS? This is where I live and I have heard some things of this place but I've never been in there. I can't believe what people pay for those dogs in there knowing they come from a puppy mill.

[BC-Liz]

This PetPad, formly Petland, is in Cary North Carolina. I very much like not having to associate with that petstore anymore and I can only hope they go under.

 

Anywho...I have Lucky's pedigree in front of me so lets see what I can find out.

 

Breeder: Jeff Fortin USDA # 48-B-0225

Sire: Triple T Ted (D03-ZA-DO-35292T)

Grand Sire: SS Red Rebel Grand Dam: Triple T Seven

Dam: BC'S Cat (F05-ZS-DO-40381D)

Grand Sire: Badger Buddy Grand Dam: Cat Scan

 

He's registered with American's Pet Registry. You should see this little flier they have...it's pretty sickening.

 

Oh and apparently he has two G.B. National Champions in his line...what is a G.B. National Champion? Oh and they're his Great Great Great Grand Sire and Dam (from different litters).

 

He is doing really well. He still wears his leash in the house but we don't have to hold onto it, he respons really well. He isn't trying to hump everything now and only watches the cat (and responds to correction). He's doing pretty well learning how to heal and runs well with Steven on the leash. He has an appointment to get snipped on Tuesday. I should be able to take more photos this weekend, I'll post some when I do.

 

Lastly, he has some serious OCD about toys and balls...may be posting later on how to redirect if my usual tactics don't work.

[juliepoudrier]

Oh and apparently he has two G.B. National Champions in his line...what is a G.B. National Champion?

Each nation of the United Kingdom has a national finals like ours. At these finals, the teams are also picked to represent the various nations (England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland) at the International Supreme. I'm assuming that a G.B. National Champion would be the English National Champion. Of course it's fairly meaningless if it's many generations back and the names you listed certainly don't ring any bells, so whatever stemmed from those national champions many generations back was apparently not remarkable (well, given they are puppy mill breeding dogs I doubt they ever saw a sheep or had a chance to prove themselves on the trial field).

 

J.

[aphillippi]

I was hoping it wasn't petland from here. I wish they would shut ours down also...

[jdarling]

Disclaimer: I don't know if all of these stories pertain to "the" Jeff Fortin. These are just links I found. Interesting, all the same.

 

Name: Fortin, Jeff

DBA: 4-10 Best Pets

Address: 725 B B Lane

City: Oberlin

County: Decatur

State: KS

Zip: 67749

 

A link of someone asking about Jeff Fortin

 

Dozens of Dogs Found Crammed in Kennels (Pet Store Owner is a Jeff Fortin)

 

A story on Lizann Fortin Miller (Jeff's ex-wife)

 

Pet Store Closes - owner: Jeff Fortin

 

 

And not sure if this is the same Triple T Border Collies as the one in the pedigree.

[BC-Liz]

Disclaimer: I don't know if all of these stories pertain to "the" Jeff Fortin. These are just links I found. Interesting, all the same.

 

Name: Fortin, Jeff

DBA: 4-10 Best Pets

Address: 725 B B Lane

City: Oberlin

County: Decatur

State: KS

Zip: 67749

 

A link of someone asking about Jeff Fortin

 

Dozens of Dogs Found Crammed in Kennels (Pet Store Owner is a Jeff Fortin)

 

A story on Lizann Fortin Miller (Jeff's ex-wife)

 

Pet Store Closes - owner: Jeff Fortin

 

 

And not sure if this is the same Triple T Border Collies as the one in the pedigree.

 

Geez. I wonder what would happen if I printed all this out and showed it to the pet store owners and asked them what they think of their "family breeder" then. ::sigh::

[sea4th]

Geez. I wonder what would happen if I printed all this out and showed it to the pet store owners and asked them what they think of their "family breeder" then. ::sigh::

 

Not much, I'm sure. It's all about marketing. You present what you offer in the best possible light and just sweep the dirty little secrets under the carpet. On the chance that someone might peek under that carpet, your public relations department will have come up with some pat answers and make sure your "people" know them ahead of time. In the meantime, why ruin a perfectly good, warm and fuzzy website.

[border_collie_crazy]

from the triple T website, there main stud, Laddies description:

 

He is the son of Bev Sommers of Pleasant ville , North-Eastern Sask..

 

Bev is a PERSON, anyone care to figer that one out? lol

[jdarling]

from the triple T website, there main stud, Laddies description:

Bev is a PERSON, anyone care to figer that one out? lol

 

Here are their "HERDING" PHOTOS.

 

I got nothin.

[scomona]

Here are their "HERDING" PHOTOS.

 

I got nothin.

 

oh no... I think that is Shiloh's dad.. for real

 

Well- we were so dumb about purchasing a puppy anyways- a family bread their BC with Laddie. We didn't know better at the time and adore our little guy, but have already committed to a rescue next time around.

 

I hate to think that we supported anything shady.. I wish we would have better informed ourselves.

[Sue R]

Here are their "HERDING" PHOTOS.

 

I got nothin.

Most of their "herding" photos involve nothing but dogs and, of the few that feature livestock, several don't have a dog present and/or the dog appears totally disinterested (except in the few with ducks). Geesh.

 

Why am I even tempted to look at such websites?

[Lokisaab]

oh this just makes me so sad:

 

Here at Triple T we are VERY particular about the health of our breeding stock, and puppies. This requires the expertise of a good up-to-date veterinary. We stand behind pups re health until 3-5 months old.

 

We are very concerned that all steps are taken to own healthy dogs. We have procedures that are done with them, such as hips checked, (we have never seen this over 30 years!) also eyes checked for "Collie eye". Both are inherited. So this is another reason why I have to charge top dollar for my pups! This is so very important-keeping clear blood-lines, no crossing in breeding, and frequently bringing in new blood from outside Canada.

 

How can anyone buying a dog take these people seriously?

[BC-Liz]

How can anyone buying a dog take these people seriously?

 

The type of people buying from this breeder probably don't care enough to check.

[juliepoudrier]

I don't normally do this, but this one really got me.

 

Now some breeders are looking at making money more than standing strong in getting top blood lines studs totally unrelated to the breeding female.

 

Jean herself is of course not looking to make money but is being true to the "no crossbreeding" rule, whatever that is. I assume she means no inbreeding or linebreeding.

 

Jean has 3 "points" she looks for in her breeding set-up:

#1. Nice, friendly temperament

 

#2 Breeding that goes clean (no cross-breeding) back to Scotland

 

#3 intelligence. Border Collies are listed as the smartest of all breeds.

 

As for #2, I guess as long as the dogs go back to Scotland (Scottish deerhounds anyone?), it's not cross-breeding, lol! Sounds like breeding tenets *guraranteed* to get you a good working dog! (heavy sarcasm intended )

 

J.

[jdarling]

And right before that, it says this:

 

We are at a place here in Ontario and northern states where we are so taken with that ability that we tend to forget about the blood lines.

 

What????

[BC-Liz]

Yeah...what exactly does that mean?

[Lokisaab]

I live in Ontario and consider myself fairly knowledgeable on all the border collie breeders in the area and I have never heard of these people. Here are just a few of the reputable breeders in Canada although there are many other qualified breeders that breed sport dogs that are not on this list.

 

 

http://www.canadianbordercollies.org/breeders.html

 

 

Under Canadian law every purebred border collie sold must be registered with CBCA and pedigree must be provided without extra cost within six months of purchase

 

 

So how does Triple T get away with not having their dogs registered with the CBCA?

[juliepoudrier]

Liz,

I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you said the folks who bought dogs from breeders like this either wouldn't know enough or care to do the research *or* they don't know enough to see all the red flags on the breeder's website.

 

J.

[border_collie_crazy]

So how does Triple T get away with not having their dogs registered with the CBCA?

 

ooo good point, they are not legally allowed to sell their dogs as Border Collies if the pups are not CBCA registered lol, they are allowed to breed and sell them, but they would have to state that their dogs are mixes, or call them "border collie TYPE" puppies

[scomona]

ooo good point, they are not legally allowed to sell their dogs as Border Collies if the pups are not CBCA registered lol, they are allowed to breed and sell them, but they would have to state that their dogs are mixes, or call them "border collie TYPE" puppies

 

Hmmm... well since it seems like I support their business I can say that I think they do give papers.

 

Ill have to check at home in our files.

 

When we went to buy a dog we only wanted a rescue and were told that a border collie is perfect for our active lifestyle (which I know now is not accurate information). The rescue(s) wouldn't consider us because we did not have a backyard and we were unsure about having children in the future. We were set on a BC because we thought it would be a good fit for our active lifestyle. Honestly we didn't know much-other than the fact that we didn't want a puppy from a puppy mill. We still didn't want to have anything to do with a breeder since we just didnt know who to trust.

 

Anyways- we found a family who's dog had puppies. They said that they planned it based on their view that she was an excellent dog with a great personality (now I know better!!). We met the mom and Shiloh was the last pup left... they were going to keep him, but then decided that we would be a good family for him. I dont know if they were lying or trying to trick us....they did seem sincere. We asked all about the hips and eyes.... spent an hour with the mom and saw where the pups lived etc.... We were told the dad was bread for his herding instinct and from a good line (which we didn't know or care about at all).

 

After about a month they checked up on us and Shiloh- asked for picture and obedience school. Made sure that we remembered about our neuter contract. They also sent us a link to the dad... which I know as Laddie from Triple T.

 

This sucks that we supported a potentially irresponsible breeder.

 

Anyways- I know it is really easy to judge others when you have so much knowledge about the Border Collie Breed. But for us- we thought we asked the right questions (we even called the local SPCA to check about the family and pups). We thought we looked into the breeder ( but obviously not enough, since we didnt ask more about the dad). I dont know- even if we did...without feedback from a forum like this we still may not have know better.

 

Its too bad that their are not more regulations, so an average person can have some guidelines about purchasing specific breeds of dogs. But again- who would decide these things. For me that means that a rescue is the best choice for our next dog. As for the papers- I will take a look and let you know how they are registered.

[border_collie_crazy]

in your case, there is a good chance that Laddie himself is CBCA registered, if he is in fact from the Sommers(either direct from them or otherwise), since you didnt get your dog direct from triple T, rather from someone else who use Laddie, that persons bitch could also have been CBCA registered..in which case, legally there is no problem. Triple T directly however repeatedly says they breed "purebred Border Collies" and also states that they do not register with "CKC but rather with ABCA" which makes no since at all actually lol either way that cant legally sell their puppies as purebred if the puppies are not registered with the CBCA.