"Rescue" issue

[SS Cressa]

Ok so maybe she not a "rescue" in most peoples eyes since she came from a loving home. but I am having an issue with her.

 

Raven the dogs that was posted about a couple of months ago is now living with me on a trial basices. She came from being left outside for most if not all day. I still haven't experience any of the issues the previous owner had (the non stop barking) My problem is Raven keeps on going after Cressa unprovoked. In the last 2 weeks Raven went after Cressa 5x. After the 2nd time Raven went after Cressa I started NILIF and was crating her more. She had to wait and work for her dinner. She had to wait to go outside and she had to wait to come out of her kennel. Unfortunately my dad who recently moved in with me after he lost his job feels that its cruel to kennel a dog for any period of time so would let her out and leave her with my pack unsupervised. It has happen twice with me where Raven just goes after Cress. The first time Raven went after Cressa. I was letting Raven have a break from grooming. Raven was on one side of the room playing with her ball and I started playing tug with Cressa. When Raven came charging over and slam into her and started tearing into her. I pull Raven off Cressa and ignore her for the next 10min then finish grooming her and then put her away. Another time my roommate had let the dogs outside and Raven ran after Cress and slam her and had her pin and was still trying to shake her my the neck and going after her head. Cressa hasn't had any puncher marks. Cressa doesn't like to play anymore if Raven in the same room with her and I can't blame her.

 

Raven been good for the last 4 days but just today I was playing outside and Cressa wasn't even doing anything just standing there and Raven went after her.

 

I have tried leashing her the only problem is no one else wants to be bother and keep her leash when I am not there.

 

I am at a lost at what to do. Any suggestions or ideas. I feel like saying the dogs not working out and returning her but right now I am frustrated and tired and I am not thinking clearly.

 

I do really like her but Cressa is my girl and I can't stand it when she feels too intimated to play or be herself.

[PSmitty]

Wow, that's not fun at all. Here's my take on it...some dogs will just not like each other. Some dogs will just *hate* each other. Who knows why, but it is what it is. If Cressa is not doing anything to provoke being attacked, then Raven has taken a dislike to her and unfortunately it seems that she has no problem starting fights over it. It's one thing to not like another dog much and rumble or grumble, give a warning snark (like my boys do with my foster), but if one dog is all out trying to kill another, it simply doesn't sound like a good fit.

 

Personally, if it were me in your situation, I'd return her. Poor Cressa can't live the rest of her life looking over her shoulder like that, and the stress of it all is no good for the rest of the dogs, nor the human family either.

[eclare]

Ok so maybe she not a "rescue" in most peoples eyes since she came from a loving home. but I am having an issue with her.

 

Raven the dogs that was posted about a couple of months ago is now living with me on a trial basices. She came from being left outside for most if not all day. I still haven't experience any of the issues the previous owner had (the non stop barking) My problem is Raven keeps on going after Cressa unprovoked. In the last 2 weeks Raven went after Cressa 5x. After the 2nd time Raven went after Cressa I started NILIF and was crating her more. She had to wait and work for her dinner. She had to wait to go outside and she had to wait to come out of her kennel. Unfortunately my dad who recently moved in with me after he lost his job feels that its cruel to kennel a dog for any period of time so would let her out and leave her with my pack unsupervised. It has happen twice with me where Raven just goes after Cress. The first time Raven went after Cressa. I was letting Raven have a break from grooming. Raven was on one side of the room playing with her ball and I started playing tug with Cressa. When Raven came charging over and slam into her and started tearing into her. I pull Raven off Cressa and ignore her for the next 10min then finish grooming her and then put her away. Another time my roommate had let the dogs outside and Raven ran after Cress and slam her and had her pin and was still trying to shake her my the neck and going after her head. Cressa hasn't had any puncher marks. Cressa doesn't like to play anymore if Raven in the same room with her and I can't blame her.

 

Raven been good for the last 4 days but just today I was playing outside and Cressa wasn't even doing anything just standing there and Raven went after her.

 

I have tried leashing her the only problem is no one else wants to be bother and keep her leash when I am not there.

 

I am at a lost at what to do. Any suggestions or ideas. I feel like saying the dogs not working out and returning her but right now I am frustrated and tired and I am not thinking clearly.

 

I do really like her but Cressa is my girl and I can't stand it when she feels too intimated to play or be herself.

 

 

 

Bad Rap blog had an excellent post on introducing new dogs to the house. http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2009/08/fo...for-dogdog.html

 

The key is to go slow and keep them separated but aware of each other basically for several weeks before you let them interact.

[bcnewe2]

I don't have any new dogs but can still have the same issues you are talking about. Dew is the youngest. She was raised by 2 old bit**es and Dicky Micky. So she's learned how to be a big pain in the patoot, was taught by the best.

Now she's way stronger than Raven who still thinks she's on top of her pack but she's only there casue I keep it that way.

 

So for playing....if Dew wants to play and Mick is around he will inturupt things imediately, games over. I just put him out or up if that what we want to do.

Raven waits till toys are on the floor and then grabs them, she is the toy police. So I just go collect her stash at the end of the day and put them back in the toy spot.

 

I don't play with the dogs if they're all together. It just doesn't work or takes to much management to be fun.

 

If we're outside Dew wants to snark Raven if Ray gets excited about anything. So that takes some management but not that bad, just a stiff "hey you" will pull Dew off obsessing on Ray's bum.

 

Mick keeps a stick in his mouth, it's his own management of his biting issues. If he has a stick in his mouth he won't/can't bite anyone. I didn't teach that he figued it out on his own, got tired of me correcting him for being a butt head.

 

No one is allowed to mess with Jazz, I see to that. Raven happens to love Jazz so that's good but anyone else even looks are her crosseyed they get correctied. Jazz is 13 and has a blown out knee, I won't allow anyone to touch her. I feel it's the least she's owed in her old age.

 

Sounds like a mess but it's not that bad. Just management of a bigger pack to me.

 

It doesn't sound like Raven is "hating" Cressea just wanting to be top dog and get all the attention. I'd put her in a spot and make her stay and continue whatever you were doing with Cressea. Or vise versa. I want my "bad" dog to see that they aren't the boss so I make them stay and watch the other dogs get attention just cause I want them to see I'm in charge. If I put them up they wouldn't see the whole deal. Be on top of the warning signs and nip it before it esculates. We will never be one tight happy pack/family but we all live together cause I say so. I think if in the wild they would not be a pack, they'd have gone thier own ways long ago but since it's my pack they stay and live by my rules.

 

Having others try to manage your pack will be your biggest issue. No one quite believes me as to what might happen if things are handled wrong but a few times of a brawl (which has never ended in blood excpet with Mick and outside dogs and that's rarely and usually the other dog getting the upperhand) and your family will be convinced. If I could only convince my 17 year old son to not do things just to push my buttons life would be good. But he enjoys seeing me get upset sometimes so he knows exactly what will pi** me off. He gets in trouble not the dogs.

 

Good luck and this can be managed if you want to put in the effort. I have noticed that doing NILIF hasn't helped but stiff management of the situation and correction when something is about to happen does. It's not that my dogs disobey me, they just have issues with each other.

 

ETA: IT's funny, all the dogs will correct the LGD's as they are just to rowdy for the border collies. In the beginning if Ray corrected one Dew would try and correct Ray for correcting a white dog. But I've watched things develop and now if Ray or Dew goes to correct a white dog the one not correcting will run over to help enforce the correction. They've come full circle.

[MrRipley]

I am also a strong advocate of basically keeping the dogs separate for as long as necessary, and then even longer. Now that Raven has had free rein to go after Cressa several times, you'll be backpedaling. If you want to keep Raven, immediately start keeping her and Cressa separated by baby gates at all times. Do not let them interact for days or even a week. Re-introduce them slowly and for short periods, keeping all interactions positive and ending the interaction before anything bad happens.

 

I learned this the hard way trying to introduce a rescue dog into my house last year. The first dog I brought home did NOT work out -- he and Anna were not getting along -- but this was before I used the separation method. I did not keep the dog (he was just not a good fit). After this, I used the separation method with great success. All dogs are different, and some dogs just may not like each other, but most dogs will take a long time to adjust to the idea of a new pack member. Even when things seem to be going well, don't take anything for granted and continue to be cautious.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

As others have said, some dogs just don't like other dogs. But it is manageable. First, how much experience has Raven had with other dogs? Do you know how well she was socialized? She could really just have no clue how to interact properly and she's therefore being a big giant a**. Who knows.

 

My own dog is dog reactive and I successfully have foster dogs in my home. Daisy will on occasion nip at, growl at or generally be a jerk to the foster dogs for what I think is no good reason. To her though the smallest thing can be a huge issue/insult. Say if the foster dog accidentally bumps into her or if he's playing with one of *her* toys. Daisy tends to be very motion sensitive as well, so we do a lot of management and desensitization work with her. I have learned to watch her like a hawk and if she starts watching the foster dog too intensely I will interrupt her. If her tail goes up and starts wagging slowly, it's time to interrupt. If she starts whining or grumbling, it's time to interrupt. I will frequently put her in a down near the other dog and have my bf play with the foster while I treat the heck out of Daisy for no reaction. She is getting really good at removing herself if the situation is getting too intense for her, but she still has her moments. I've only been fostering for less than a year and even a year ago I never would have thought we could manage the situation. Believe me, you can. I have 2 other people in my house (my mom and my bf) and at times it gets kind of irritating to remind everyone what they should be doing, but after a while they kind of get into a routine.

Good luck....

[Root Beer]

Having other people in the mix makes this extra challenging. You can try talking with them - explain the problem, and your plan. You can ask them plainly if they will go along with the protocols that you put in place for Cressa's safety and well being.

 

But if they won't, there isn't a lot you can do about that. You can try to get other people on board with keeping them separate, giving time outs, etc., but if they see things differently, that's a problem.

[PSmitty]

I don't disagree that this is probably a managable situation. I think the OP needs to decide if it's something she and her family is 1) capable of and 2) WANTS to do. I know that I would not want to live in situation like that permanently (fosters I can understand). Personally, I want a harmonious household and would not CHOOSE to keep a dog that hates one of my dogs and spend the next 10 years keeping them separated or whatnot.

 

That said, I'm not one to jump at rehoming a dog. If this was something that sprang up between two of my current dogs, I would never give one of them up and would take whatever steps necessary to keep everyone safe. But since this is a dog that the OP just took on a trial basis, I think returning her might be a viable option.

[geonni banner]

I'm wondering if you have tried having only Raven and Cressa in a room and rewarding Raven for positive interaction or confining her alone immediately if she be behaves aggressively. I know it isn't exactly the same thing, but I had good luck using this method to keep a high prey-drive Lurcher from eating a kitten I got. She got cheese rewards for any non-threatening movement in the direction of the kitten, and five minutes in the bathroom for stalking or in any way harrassing the kitten. In 3 days they were sleeping together and became best friends. I never scolded the dog for kitten unfriendliness. I just marked the behavior with a "Nope" and took her to "coventry."

 

As for the family members letting her out of her crate, a bicycle cable-lock will put a stop to that.

[jenkshipley]

Raven the dogs that was posted about a couple of months ago is now living with me on a trial basices. She came from being left outside for most if not all day. I still haven't experience any of the issues the previous owner had (the non stop barking)

 

I am at a lost at what to do. Any suggestions or ideas. I feel like saying the dogs not working out and returning her but right now I am frustrated and tired and I am not thinking clearly.

 

Did you take Raven from her owner or from a rescue? Are you able to send her back without worrying too much about what will happen to her? Personally, I have four bitches in my household and used to have five and have no issues with the dogs getting along. I am careful to correct any behavior I don't like when I bring a new dog in the house and I back up my 11 year old who is the alpha. That all being said, I would not keep a dog that did not get along with my resident dogs. Can you work through the issue and get to the point where the Raven does not challenge or go after your other dog. Absolutely, but it won't be an easy process or a quick fix. Sometimes a dog is just not a fit for a specific household or the resident dogs. In my mind, it is better to realize that sooner rather then later, let the dog find a different home where he or she is a better fit and continue to search for a new addition that will fit into your household.

 

If you are committed to working with her and keeping her you'll have to work at it and get anyone else that interacts with the dogs on board so that the approach is consistent.

 

Jen

Flute AAD, AX, OAJ, OAC, OGC, NAJ - semi-retired

ADCH Enna TM - Silver, SACH, GCH, SCH, JCH, RCH, MX, MXJ - rescued champion

Rising Sun's Hot to the Touch - aka: Fever - retired due to epilepsy

Lava - BC puppy in training

Kasi EAC,EGC,EJC, OA,OAJ - (1992-2007)

[SS Cressa]

Raven came from her owner. I don't really know how much socialization she got. I do know she has lived with her breeder when she was getting trained. I know when I mention what Raven did her previous owners said Raven isn't use to sharing her toys which makes me think that Raven was kept seperate from the other dogs. The other dogs the owner owns are bulldogs and mastiff.

 

I did use c/t to reienforce good behavior. If she sniff Cressa C/T. She would also get a C/T for focusing on me instead of Cress.

 

I know Cressa excites other dogs prey drive. SInce she is small and FAST. Raven also doesn't give much if any warning. Which is why Cressa is warries(wd?) of her. Cressa has back down each time but I don't want it escalated into a bitc* fight.

 

I DON'T want a pack that I have to worry who on the other side of the door. For me it is very imporant for the whole gang to get along. Right now I have a 4 day out of town agility show coming up and I will be working in it. Right now I don't trust Raven to be able to handle being x-pen with my pack and its unfair to kennel her the whole time. I also will be in March going to be taking 2 weeks off for nationals and another 4 day agility show.

 

Anyways thanks for the replies I think I will be talking with the previous owner and breeder about returning her.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I should have said this before, but you do just need to do what's best for your pack. If Raven is a trial placement and it's not working, then so be it. The issue can potentially be solved but it wouldn't be with out work and time and then it's not a 100% guarantee, you may loose out on your chance to return her.

[MaryP]

I don't disagree that this is probably a managable situation. I think the OP needs to decide if it's something she and her family is 1) capable of and 2) WANTS to do. I know that I would not want to live in situation like that permanently (fosters I can understand). Personally, I want a harmonious household and would not CHOOSE to keep a dog that hates one of my dogs and spend the next 10 years keeping them separated or whatnot.

 

 

I couldn't have said that better myself. I have a dog, Skittles, who often does not like certain foster dogs. Even the ones he likes, he never fully accepts. The ones he doesn't like, though, he REALLY doesn't like. Since they are foster dogs, I deal with it and just manage the situation to avoid problems. But, I would NEVER willingly enter into a long-term commitment with a dog that I know I will have to actively manage it's interaction with Skittles for the rest of their lives. No thanks. If you had had both dogs for a while and this was a recent problem, then I could see that you might want to just manage them because you were attached to both and felt a commitment to both. But, this new dog is new. Why is it fair to turn Cressa's life upside down just to keep a dog that may never be a good fit in your home? Just my $0.02.

[border_collie_crazy]

this may sound harsh, but I think you may need to get harsh with Raven. I had the same problem with Rusty, he was forever attacking Electra for no reason at all, I tried all the things you descroibe, all kinds of time outs and more "positive" methodes to no avail, in fact the attacks were getting WORSE. it didnt stop until I said enugh is enugh, and one day I grabbed him from an attack on Electra, shoved him to the floor and pinned him there..I let him up holding his collar once he stoipped rithing, he gave Electra the look so I did it again..it took 3 repeats of this, and while it sounds harsh, it is the only thing that WORKED. in fact Rusty and Electra have been the best of friends ever since, sometimes insisting on sharing a crate, and always inisting that their crates be side by side.

 

but as the others said its up to you, and what you are willing to do and what you are willing to allow.

[pansmom]

I'm wondering if you have tried having only Raven and Cressa in a room and rewarding Raven for positive interaction or confining her alone immediately if she be behaves aggressively. I know it isn't exactly the same thing, but I had good luck using this method to keep a high prey-drive Lurcher from eating a kitten I got. She got cheese rewards for any non-threatening movement in the direction of the kitten, and five minutes in the bathroom for stalking or in any way harrassing the kitten. In 3 days they were sleeping together and became best friends. I never scolded the dog for kitten unfriendliness. I just marked the behavior with a "Nope" and took her to "coventry."

 

Second this, regarding how to stop negative interspecies behavior (except my Vala was not actually trying to eat a cat, just wanting to control its movements)... was also thinking it might work here as well. Worth a try.

 

ETA: Just read further down, if you know she's not going to be euth'd, maybe she'd be better going back and getting re-placed in a single-dog home. The way they described the "not used to sharing her toys" sounds like it might be code for dog-dog aggression, resource guarding, territorial, etc. God I hate when people trying to rehome a dog aren't 100% honest.

[MicheleS.]

The dogs I have now in my home come first and any that I decide to bring into the family must be a good fit where everyone (people and dogs) is comfortable. I too don't want to live where I have to keep tabs on all the dogs with management 100% of the time. The way you describe how your Cressa is acting breaks my heart. I didn't have any dog-dog aggression issues when I added Chase to the family but Gypsy had her nose out of joint for a while. That was tough for me because she was #1 bouncy, happy, girl always until we rocked her world with this new Chase puppy. Everything did work out after a few weeks, thank goodness, and Gypsy went back to acting herself again.

 

You gave it your best shot at re-homing, it just doesn't sound like a good fit. Hopefully Raven will find a home that suits her.

 

Good luck.

[SS Cressa]

Didn't want to start a new thread...

 

Just an update:

 

I do still have Raven. Not sure if she heard me talking about re-turning her or what but she started leaving Cressa alone. Cressa has even started playing near her. Cressa can also run near her without issue. If Raven gets that too interested look she responing to LEAVE IT pretty good. That and Cressa will stick close if Raven get that look. Raven has even started play border collie games with the rest of the pack.

 

The other good news is my Dad who been living with us since he lost his job has taken a liking to her. And Raven adore him. LOL She will just sit next to him and gaze at him adore-ing-ly. He has actually has called and lets her into his room! This is coming from a guy who doesn't like dogs in the house... He recently has started on a trial bais a trucking job (he is a truck driver) and ask the owner if he could bring a dog with him over the road.

[flyer]

Didn't want to start a new thread...

 

Just an update:

 

I do still have Raven. Not sure if she heard me talking about re-turning her or what but she started leaving Cressa alone. Cressa has even started playing near her. Cressa can also run near her without issue. If Raven gets that too interested look she responing to LEAVE IT pretty good. That and Cressa will stick close if Raven get that look. Raven has even started play border collie games with the rest of the pack.

 

The other good news is my Dad who been living with us since he lost his job has taken a liking to her. And Raven adore him. LOL She will just sit next to him and gaze at him adore-ing-ly. He has actually has called and lets her into his room! This is coming from a guy who doesn't like dogs in the house... He recently has started on a trial bais a trucking job (he is a truck driver) and ask the owner if he could bring a dog with him over the road.

 

Great news, especially re: your Dad.

[MicheleS.]

This is great news! Thanks for updating.

[ejano]

Great news, especially re: your Dad.

 

It sounds like your dad really needed a friend at the moment and so did Raven. A good match.

 

It does take time for two strange dogs to settle in, especially if Raven had a bad experience with other dogs.

 

The other dogs the owner owns are bulldogs and mastiff.

 

If she was at the bottom of the totem pole with these two dogs and was constantly under threat and never learned that good dogs share, then that might explain her behavior. Was anyone honest with you about the interactions between those dogs?

 

Liz

[Root Beer]

One thing to be aware of is that if your father takes Raven on the road, her relationship with Cressa might change again.

 

Sammie and Dean actually got along really well until Sammie started spending time away from home a lot. Dean and his relationship to the group changed when Sammie was out of the picture and whenever Sammie would return, things changed again. They started to butt heads a bit at that point.

 

I'm not saying that going on the road would cause problems between Raven and Cressa. There are no problems between Sammie and Maddie or Speedy. But it can happen, so it's good to be aware of that.