Lacygirl Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Lacy is our 9 year old rescue bc who we've had since age 4. She came to us abused, abandoned, and neglected with every worm known, including hw. Throughout the day, she will nudge, paw, and pester (every 15 min.) while I'm sitting and beg for attention; sometimes a pat will do but sometimes it's not enough. I give in because I feel for her abused side. What does she yearn for? Is she asking for reassurance? I always give her praise, maybe I am enabling her. She asks for it with my husband and anyone else in the room, constantly. We have been through training, but has never had a lot of confidence. She runs, while I bike, 5 miles a week. She does not play and has a docile personality. She is the best dog and is anxious to please. We have two cats who she is interested in , and reading the posts I realize she needs to learn "they are none of her business". Is practicing "leave it" and rewarding her one answer? We feel very fortunate to own her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I give in because I feel for her abused side. This is simply demanding behavior and has nothing to do with being abused. Out of curiosity, why do you believe your rescue dog was abused? What does she yearn for? She's not asking, she's demanding your attention and you are giving it to her. maybe I am enabling her. Bingo! By petting her whenever she nudges or paws, etc., you are just reinforcing this behavior. I'll be the behavior has gotten worse over the years, too? Look, I feel for you. I have one dog with a very demanding personality. He's been like that since he was a puppy. I know that I shouldn't, but I still sometimes give into him when he comes over and flips my hand up in the air when I'm trying to type on the computer at home. Usually, though, after the third fling of my hand, I grow pretty tired of it and tell him, "that's enough." In truth, though, you (I) should never give into that demanding behavior because we are just reinforcing it and making it more likely that they are going to continue with it and continue at greater frequency as long as they are getting what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Something you might want to consider is doing some massage/bodywork with her. You don't really need to know anything formal for that, although there are some books out there for instruction. TTouch would be another option. That would give you a way to do something very special for her that will benefit her both mentally and physically, and it would give her assurance that you are there for her. I know that doesn't address the situation directly, but you might find it beneficial to both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 My dog does this too, when she's "bored". Usually later at night though when I'm doing freelance in my office. She cries and paws and barks at me. I will usually give her a Leo to play with (see link). Not always though, she gets into a pattern and starts asking for one every night...smart little bugger. So I break it up, sometimes she gets one, sometimes she just has to calm down and be quiet. http://www.caninegenius.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincereArtisan Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 MaryP hit the nail on the head with this one. You are enabling her behavior by reinforcing (PRAISING) her behavior with giving her what she wants. Try making her work for what she wants. Teach her to lay down, stay, maintain her cool a few minutes before you go to pet her. Praise her, but start to lengthen the time between praise, and petting. Pretty soon, she will hopefully start offering this behavior when she wants your attention...so instead of a dog frantically pawing and vocalizing, you may work towards getting a dog who will lay quietly at your feet for the attention she feels she needs. Dogs read your body language VERY well...the more "reassuring" or cooing you do over her, the more anxious she is going to be, because she's going to be thinking there really IS something to be worked up about. If you ignore her, maintain YOUR cool, act confident and collected, she will hopefully start to become more reassured by YOUR behavior..."Oh mom isn't worried...no need for me to fret, then." I see this a lot where I work, at the vet...the amount of people who come in there falling all over their nervous/anxious dogs as they shake and whine and yelp do nothing but excite the dog further, reinforcing the dog's belief that it truly IS the end of the world... LoL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 My question is what kind of activities do you do with her? Are you training/working/playing with her a few minutes at a time, at least a couple times a day? Do you walk her regularly or play fetch with her? Do you do any sports with her? I agree with the others, she is demanding your attention and you are encouraging this behavior. However, if she doesn't have anything else to do with her busy brain, then you need to bring some activity into your daily routine. You will need to re-train her, that you pet/stroke her when it's your idea, but if she's actually bored, then she'll just find something else to do, and odds are great that you won't like what she comes up with. She's not too old at all to learn. My 13 and 14 yr old girls are still challenging me to come up with new things to do with them. They love the interaction and love performing for company. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So I'm still a beginner dog owner but I'll chime in and say what has worked for me... Vala did this at first, but I taught her "all done," by saying "all done" at the end of every single activity for a couple days, and now when she comes for a pet (asking very politely, by sitting and quietly waiting for me to notice her) after I give her a couple pets on the snout and I'm done, I tell her "all done" and she stops. Vala came to me sitting politely for attention (I'm lucky) but my last dog I had to take to a board-certified veterinary behaviorist in another state because she was so demanding and assertive (among other things). The behaviorist told me basically that if your dog is asking for attention in any other way than sitting quietly and waiting politely for you to notice her (perhaps wagging her tail), you're supposed to ignore her (not make any eye contact at all, turn away, possibly with exaggerated body language) while either gently body blocking her out of your personal space (if she can take that without being reactive) or saying "back up" and "sit" (if she cannot take it). Only pay attention to her (restore eye contact) when she is polite, out of your personal space, attentive to you, and calm. Then pet, and when you're done, tell her "all done" or "that'll be all" or whatever your activity-over cue is. Activity-over cues ROCK. That and "leave it" were THE first things I would teach a dog coming into my house. Well and "sit" if the dog didn't know that already. I have also taught Vala a "she/he's busy" cue for when we pass people on walks. She likes to sit and ask politely (by wagging and bowing and making eye contact) to get pet by every person we pass, but sometimes people are running or don't look friendly or I'm busy or we don't have time or whatever. In those situations I have been telling her "she/he's busy" and tugging on the leash and saying "come." After a week of repeating this, she has figured out "she/he's busy" and I no longer have to say come. Also I can say it as we're passing someone before she goes into her whole pet-me routine. In the future I plan to use the "I'm busy" cue myself but honestly there hasn't been a case where I didn't want to pet her up to now! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Normally I would agree with much that has been written, however, she's 9 years old and well quite frankly when they get that age I will give in and I will enable, who cares. Lifes too short to get grouchy about your best friend wanting "attention from you". I completely agree with Kristine (Shock, I must be on planet Debbie ) and doing the massage. OK, so the nudge's are annoying at worst but ya know it only takes a few moments and if you spin it to the positive side, you both feel better afterward. Maybe give her a stuffed Kong, at your feet, when you really can't take the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacygirl Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Lacy is our 9 year old rescue bc who we've had since age 4. She came to us abused, abandoned, and neglected with every worm known, including hw.Throughout the day, she will nudge, paw, and pester (every 15 min.) while I'm sitting and beg for attention; sometimes a pat will do but sometimes it's not enough. I give in because I feel for her abused side. What does she yearn for? Is she asking for reassurance? I always give her praise, maybe I am enabling her. She asks for it with my husband and anyone else in the room, constantly. We have been through training, but has never had a lot of confidence. She runs, while I bike, 5 miles a week. She does not play and has a docile personality. She is the best dog and is anxious to please. We have two cats who she is interested in , and reading the posts I realize she needs to learn "they are none of her business". Is practicing "leave it" and rewarding her one answer? We feel very fortunate to own her. I was told that she was abused by the rescuer. When walking toward her, w/eye contact, she will put her head down unless you use a happy voice. She is afraid of men's low voice, water (lakes & ponds) and her hind end is sensitive to touch. These may be characterisitics that don't include past abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacygirl Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 My question is what kind of activities do you do with her? Are you training/working/playing with her a few minutes at a time, at least a couple times a day? Do you walk her regularly or play fetch with her? Do you do any sports with her? I agree with the others, she is demanding your attention and you are encouraging this behavior. However, if she doesn't have anything else to do with her busy brain, then you need to bring some activity into your daily routine. You will need to re-train her, that you pet/stroke her when it's your idea, but if she's actually bored, then she'll just find something else to do, and odds are great that you won't like what she comes up with. She's not too old at all to learn. My 13 and 14 yr old girls are still challenging me to come up with new things to do with them. They love the interaction and love performing for company. Ruth You asked a very important question..... other than the bike ride, and riding in car, she and I can't seem to find an activity to do together. She won't fetch, play ball or frisbee. We've tried many techniques from bc boards to no avail. She will cower then pee and run away when prodded. We will try putting her with other dogs that play, but she won't interact. I was told that the "window of opportunity" has passed. But I will keep trying! Thank You! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Every minute is an opportunity. For some dogs, it's a bit harder for them to learn new concepts after puppyhood, but I've not noticed that at all with my border collies. My Shoshone, a very fearful girl, learned a lot about playing with humans from watching other dogs play with people. There's no way to know for sure, but it might have given her some confidence about people. If you can, borrow a dog that does like to play tug or fetch, and let Lacy (I assume that's her name) watch a few times. When you walk her, break up the walk by asking for a sit or down or touch your hand with her nose. Expect more of her, believe me, she has it to give. Capture her doing something you like. If she doesn't know a sit command, then tell her 'good girl' when she sits, and reinforce w/something she likes, petting, a cooing tone, a cookie. She'll catch on. Good luck with introducing some action into your lives! Keep any type of training very short - 2 or 3 repetitions at the most - and very neutral. If she's feeling social pressure, then excitement and lots of praise from you may scare her. Good luck, and let us know how you get on with her. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I was told that she was abused by the rescuer. When walking toward her, w/eye contact, she will put her head down unless you use a happy voice. She is afraid of men's low voice, water (lakes & ponds) and her hind end is sensitive to touch. These may be characterisitics that don't include past abuse. Hmmm. Maybe... Maybe not. There's nothing definitive in those behaviors to indicate (or rule out) abuse. I've seen those same behaviors on well-cared-for, normal, healthy dogs too. Some dogs are very 'soft' and will fold under any kind of dominant pressure - Such as advancing eye contact, deep voices, and so on. My BC/X, Suka, doesn't care for water, and will go out of her way to avoid walking in puddles. Heaven forbid she should have to swim! And she's quite shy of her tail - I'm the only one for whom she'll hold still when her tail or rear are being examined. So, we've got counter-examples for those behaviors. The biggest question I have is this: Does the behavior cause problems? If so, then you need to stop rewarding it. If, on the other hand, you don't mind, I'd say "What's the issue?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody & Duchess Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have to confess that I was thinking about this demand for attention this morning - chalking it up to "its a border collie thing". In the morning Cody like a get a lot of attention.Before I get out of bed he like to lie down beside me and get his head and belly rubbed. If you are sitting- drinking your coffee he will lay his head on your lap and look at you with those eyes. For the most part- if it is convenient, we will give him attention. If you tell him to go on the deck or go to his chair he will leave you alone. This high demand for connect- I was thinking BC trait. Maybe I am wrong - just spoiled dog trait. All in all, we still feel that it is our decision, makes him feel good, and 98% of the time he is the dog of your dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 My dogs can be demanding in that way as well. Sometimes it works for them, other times I tell them to go away and they usually do. I guess I am of the type that would rather put up with a bit of their pestering now cause I will sure as hell miss it when they are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Ditto Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 My dogs can pester me and, like a little child, I gauge my response depending on the circumstance. If I am busy, I respond so that the dog realizes that he/she needs to stop and, with time and training, they do. Sometimes, I just stop what I am doing and give a pet, some time, some attention, some play. They request but I make the decision. They have to be polite, though - no scratching and demanding, just requesting allowed. When I was young and used to go spend a week at a time with my adult, married cousin (whose two children were much closer to me in age and so we played as good friends), she would make sure we did fun things and especially things I could not do otherwise. One day, at the zoo gift shop after a long day visiting the animals, I pestered her and pestered her as she waited for service at the busy counter. After several times of me being a pest and her telling me to wait, she turned around and said that if I repeated that behavior one more time, I would not get what I wanted. Period. I knew she meant it and I stopped the behavior, and was rewarded by getting what I'd wanted when the time was right. Many times, training a dog and raising a child involve an awful lot of similarities - fairness, consistency, persistence, and leadership, amongst others. There is often not just one way to accomplish something, and everyone has their preferred way of producing the result they would like to see. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacygirl Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 This makes sense to me, I am in control and she needs to respect that! She doesn't ask for much, and loving her is so easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacygirl Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 My dogs can be demanding in that way as well.Sometimes it works for them, other times I tell them to go away and they usually do. I guess I am of the type that would rather put up with a bit of their pestering now cause I will sure as hell miss it when they are gone. Very well said, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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