Pet insurance

[Sam'smom]

Just curious... how many of you have it, have had to use it and in the long run... do you think it's worth it???

 

I currently don't have it at the moment for Sam but am getting it today....

 

 

My last dog Toby was an expensive dog in the long run..... he was on anti seizure meds, anti arthritic meds, and had a few surgeries over the years.... removal of a forign object from his belly and cruciate ligement repair x2.

[bc4ever]

I've considered it too for Scooter, but we can barely afford our insurance any more.

[sweet_ceana]

We have it, and we go through petcare insurance. They are the only company I have found that covers genetic and hereditary (this is how they have them listed) illness/ injury. Ie... hip dysplacia, collie eye anomially etc... We also have a dog credit card- for dog emergencies only. Most of these insurance companies reimburse you, so you would have to have a way to float the bill. We have insurance for our dogs for now, as we are building up savings and paying off debt. I hope to have a large emergency fund at some point, for dogs only, so that I no longer pay premiums. Until I get to that point and feel comfortable, we have insurance.

[Guest maya's mom]

We have coverage for Maya, through VPI. I have the "Superior" Policy, which covers anything major.....surgery, xrays, cancer, etc. And for her first year, I also got a Well-Care Rider that covered her vaccines, her spaying and a few other puppy things. I was paying $44 a month for both. Now that she is 1, and the policy is up for renewal, I will be dropping the well-care rider, which will take my bill down to $22 a month. Times are tight here (I have been unemployed from the mortgage industry for a few months now), but I feel better having the coverage. I like to budget the $22 a month, and not have to worry that $$$ could be a factor in care for Maya, should, god forbid anything ever happen to her. I have loved using them so far, and have gotten back probably an average of half or slightly more, of all of her care for the first year. So for us, it has been great. I would check out their website or call them to get the specifics on what coverage would be best for you. They have 3 or 4 different levels of coverage. Good Luck!

[afrancis]

We have coverage for Maya, through VPI. I have the "Superior" Policy, which covers anything major.....surgery, xrays, cancer, etc.

 

I think that's the trick: get the premium policy to make sure the most expensive medical interventions are covered.

 

I considered getting it for Skye since our Riley cost us so much money (various and sundry vet visits i.e. fishhook removal, cruciate ligament surgery, then AIHA & cancer ), but calculated that if we had her for as long as we had Riley, had the comprehensive (read most expensive) plan, and the same kinds of health problems arose, we would break even. So we thought we'd think positive thoughts and hedge our bets.

 

That being said, I think it is probably a good idea for those who couldn't possibly afford a sudden, large expense but can integrate a monthly fee into their budget. We're crossing our fingers ...

Ailsa

[in2adventure]

I have petcare for both dogs. Just the basic ones and it's only 28 for both dogs. I haven't used it yet, thankfully, but my last dog was expensive with her ACL surgery and other mishaps. I figured it would pay off in the long run with Lucia and Grady. Between the sheep herding, agility and backcountry hiking, something is bound to happen eventually (keeping all paws crossed that nothing does!).

 

If I never have to use it, at least it's peace of mind.

[Guest jackieandryan]

I used to have it through VPI for all 3 dogs. However, $66 a month x 12 months x 10 years = about $8000 for all three dogs. One of my dogs had a health issue last year and VPI's "superior plan" didn't cover as much as I had hoped, so I canceled it for my 2 older dogs. We still have a plan for Rylee that costs us $12 each month (not the superior plan). She is far more active (she is the Border Collie) and more likely to hurt herself. She is a frisbee nut and I think it is good to have just in case she lands wrong after a jump. Now I just put $50 away each month for the other two.

 

If it comes back to bite me in the ass, so be it. I just like the idea of being able to keep my money if I don't need it in the long run.

[MaggieDog]

I'm waffling on insurance right now - leaning toward trying a year with PetPlan since they get good reviews vs. the others. I'd only insure Ziva since she's in SAR and thus way more likely to get injured than Maggie, plus some of the insurance companies will no longer cover her since she'll be 10 in May/June.

[herdcentral]

I insured my 10 week old pup after a bad run with one of my older dogs. It did cover genetic diseases.

 

Lucky because she was diagnosed with elbow dyplasia at 9 months and I spent about AU$5200 on scans and surgery. Insurance refunded about $4000 of this. A short while later she came down with pyometra so more bills. For me it has been good value. My other 2 older dogs are not insured and I am tossing up whether to cover them or not.

[Bill Fosher]

For those of you who feel veterinary insurance provides "peace of mind," make sure you read the fine print. The policies allow a certain amount for a diagnosis or procedure, and then pay a percentage of that allowance. So suppose your bill is $2,000 for an emergency surgery, anesthesia, blood work, hospitalization, and meds. Suppose that the allowance for those items is $1,500, and suppose you have a 20 percent co-payment. Your out-of-pocket expenses would be the whole $500 that is above the allowance, plus $300 for your co-payment. You end up paying almost half of the bill, plus all your insurance premiums.

 

A few years ago, I looked at VPI, and I found that even though I go to a very reasonably-priced practice, the amounts allowed for most common procedures would not be enough to pay the bills. Plus, most of my veterinary expenses are preventative which weren't covered at all unless you bought the wellness rider, which doubled the premium.

 

My advice would be to ditch the insurance policy, but keep putting the premium aside into a savings account. Set it up as an automatic withdrawal from checking if you have to. Keep credit card balance available for emergencies. You will spend less money on veterinary care this way, even if you end up paying interest on the credit card for a few months if you have a major medical problem before your savings account has built up to where you can handle it with cash.

[Bordermix]

We have it, and we go through petcare insurance. They are the only company I have found that covers genetic and hereditary (this is how they have them listed) illness/ injury. Ie... hip dysplacia, collie eye anomially etc...

 

I believe embrace pet insurance (http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/) covers hereditary illness/injury as well as pre-existing conditions (if the condition has been silent for a year). We went with www.petfirsthealathcare.com because it was more affordable for 3 dogs and covers 90% of illness/injuries. We end up at the vet a lot, and they have always paid.

 

We also have a "dog" account set up, but it never gets big enough to cover an injury or illness, and with three sports dogs, we have quite a few vet bills (I should have been a vet )

 

Cynthia & Wrigley

[sweet_ceana]

For those of you who feel veterinary insurance provides "peace of mind," make sure you read the fine print. The policies allow a certain amount for a diagnosis or procedure, and then pay a percentage of that allowance. So suppose your bill is $2,000 for an emergency surgery, anesthesia, blood work, hospitalization, and meds. Suppose that the allowance for those items is $1,500, and suppose you have a 20 percent co-payment. Your out-of-pocket expenses would be the whole $500 that is above the allowance, plus $300 for your co-payment. You end up paying almost half of the bill, plus all your insurance premiums.

 

A few years ago, I looked at VPI, and I found that even though I go to a very reasonably-priced practice, the amounts allowed for most common procedures would not be enough to pay the bills. Plus, most of my veterinary expenses are preventative which weren't covered at all unless you bought the wellness rider, which doubled the premium.

 

My advice would be to ditch the insurance policy, but keep putting the premium aside into a savings account. Set it up as an automatic withdrawal from checking if you have to. Keep credit card balance available for emergencies. You will spend less money on veterinary care this way, even if you end up paying interest on the credit card for a few months if you have a major medical problem before your savings account has built up to where you can handle it with cash.

 

Not all of these insurance policies work exactly as you have described. I work in the insurance industry and know the fine print and laws around that fine print very well. I agree that it is necissary that you do your due diligence when you choose any policy. There are plenty of people out there who are happy to take your money and screw you over in the name of insurance. There are also decent policies available out there that can be more efficent than a savings account in some situations. Pet insurance is not the best choice for everyone, but unless you look at all companies and policies you cannot condem the entire idea.

 

That said, I did look at VPI as well at one point and I agree with your asessment on the policies that I looked over at that time. Particularly I did not like that they excluded anything genetic, hereditary, or breed specific. Ie... they most likely would not cover a smooshed (sp?) face dog's breathing issues, or eye balls that just "pop" out due to the structure of the breed's face. Heck, they could exclude HD for almost any dog depending on size. Their exclusion verbage, at the time, was not very specific.

 

I have yet to find a company that covers pre-exsiting conditions. So, if your older dog already has any ailments they will be excluded, or if your dog has hurt themselves previously and a later condition develops that could be related to the accident many companies will not cover it either. There is often an exclusion period on polices, as well, for anything. My policy pretty much excluded any long term injury/illness that came up in the first 30 days. We had concerns for Ceana's hips, so we made sure to wait until after that exclusion period to take her to the vet for x-rays. The test came up inconclusive, but had a diagnosis been made I wanted to make sure all further care would have been covered. My vet even had to fill out a pateint history for my policy.

 

Pet policies are a lot like individual health policies IMO. The cheapest route for any consumer, from my research, is to take the higher deductible policy. That way you pay less premium and you have the coverage for the catastrophic event that could break the bank.

[Bill Fosher]

I should have been more clear that I was just trying to illustrate the ways in which peace of mind can evaporate into thin air if you don't understand your policy, its exclusions, its limitations, and its co-payments clearly. Obviously, insurance companies are in the game to make money, and they can only do that if they take in more money in premiums than they pay out in claims. That's a slight oversimplification that doesn't including investment income, etc., but the basic concept holds. For every person who gets $1 in benefits, the rest of the policy holders collectively have to pay in $1.10 or $1.25 or whatever. The difference goes to administration, overhead, and profits. The question is whether you think, in the long run, you're going to be the person who gets the dollar or the one that pays the dollar and a quarter, and whether you'd rather give that dime or quarter on every dollar that you spend on your dog to an insurance executive or keep it for yourself.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, buying veterinary health insurance for the long haul is like going to Vegas and figuring on beating the house every weekend for the rest of your life. While you might have a good weekend every now and then, you will not come out ahead. There is no way.

 

In human health care, the rate of inflation has been 15 to 20 percent per year for the last five years, or about five times the general inflation rate. Nearly all of the difference is attributable to insurance related costs -- that is, health insurance premiums have been going up and benefits have been going down. Providers are being paid less, being required to fight harder and wait longer to get paid, and patients are having to pay more out of their own pockets. It boils down to common sense that over time, if you self-insure you can keep all the money that would have gone to the insurance company for yourself. I realize that's not a great option for human health care, but it seems like a very sensible one for veterinary health care.

[sweet_ceana]

Very good points. I agree that self insurance is the best way to go if you can. School Districts are experts on cutting costs and everyone I have seen has been self insured as well. I don't see pet health insurance as a life long tool, but I do see it as helpful during rocky financial times. Insurance should only be there to protect you from what you can't afford. If you can afford it, you don't need it.

 

Human Health care is a mess. It is a sad state of afairs when you call the licensed experts and they can't even get a straight answer from the company. I feel bad for all the MD's out there. With all of the insurance they have to carry to protect themselves from law suits it is a wonder they can even pay the bills.

 

The difference goes to administration, overhead, and profits.

This is the beauty of a mutual insurance company. After the bills are paid and the claims are covered the "profit," is sent back to the policy holder as a return of premium. If you have no stockholders you do not have anyone else to please. Unfortunetly mutual companies are few and far between these days. The mutual insurance companies seem to be the only ones with stable balance sheets, so hopefully there will be a change.

 

Sorry to go so off topic...

[Bill Fosher]

Lest there be any confusion, self insurance could be as simple as a savings account, a credit card, or both.

 

I am big into co-ops, mutual banks, credit unions, and mutual insurance companies. Mutual insurance is a whole different ball of wax from the standard business model. It is essentially a bunch of folks getting together and saying, "Okay, someday, one of us is going to have a fire. Let's all pony up some money and when that dark day comes, we'll help the unfortunate family with the loss." As a matter of fact, I think the first fire insurance company was started by a group of mill workers in England, who had also started the first a food-buying cooperative.

 

The business incentive is different with cooperatively or mutually-held companies. They exist not to maximize shareholder value or profit (which are in themselves two different things) but to serve their member/owners. They must not lose money, but any money that they make over and above costs can be returned to the members in any of a various bunch of different ways.

 

I am a member of a farm supply coop, a food coop, have my checking accounts with a mutual bank, my car loans with a credit union, and if I could I would have my insurance with a mutual, but as sweet ceana says, they are few and far between.

[herdcentral]

I could pay insurance for the rest of my dogs life and still not cover what insurance has already paid me in her first year of life - $4500.

 

I asked them about pre exisisting conditions and they said it was case by case. For example if my older dog had several UTIs some years ago. If they decide from her records that it is not a regularly occurring condition then she will be covered for it. But if she has already had a cruciate done prior to insurance on one leg they will not cover the second leg if it went.

 

Also bilateral conditions are treated as one illness so there is $6000 limit per condition and this has to cover both, legs, eyes or whatever. I think this may also apply to cancer- if a dog has develops several different types of cancer it is still one condition. So it is good to read the fine print but with the amount of money I have spent on vet bills in the past no way could I have saved for them. I just had to borrow against my house for those events, probably nearly $20,000.

 

Hence the decision to insure my new pup who is an "at risk" breed for ED, so just in case a big ticket dysplasia developed as it had in a previous dog, and unfortunately elbow dysplasia emerged at 5 months despite coming from screened parents and careful early management.

 

It costs me AU$21 per month - roughly US$14. I get 80% back per claim and have a $200 per condition excess which is deducted only once for each condition. So it is not much good for small bills but it was the big ticket items I was interested in.

 

My young BC and my older ACD are currently not insured, just my young ED dog.

[Bill Fosher]

Crass as it is to say it, I would probably euthanize a dog long before spending $20,000 in veterinary bills. So that judgment will also enter into the decision about whether to carry insurance or not. I wonder, though, if you were to run those $20,000 in bills through your current policy, how much would you still have ended up paying?

[Ooky]

We wished we had insurance, obviously, when Odin's OCD came up. We spent a lot of money on that, what with 2 diagnostic visits, a surgical consult, and treatment. On top of his puppy vet bills, purchase price, classes, food, medicine and supplements, and swag (crates etc.) he is probably the one of the most expensive pups out there. So I can see where it would be nice to have. I can see Bill's point about euthanasia too, as everyone else in my family would do the same. I just personally never would for something like a shoulder injury, when it can be fixed (albeit for a large expense). I wouldn't say this sentiment is coming from a logical or hard-bitten sort of place

 

But, I think I would also be among the people who over my adulthood of having pets that were my financial responsibility (14 years, 10 pets total), If I had insured them all I would have either broke even or lost money on the deal. Herdcentral's case is surely not unheard of but probably not common either (insure the right pet for a short time and get a big payout with really substantial coverage for the condition). But maybe that's just in the U.S.? I have to wonder if Australia's insurance companies aren't less messed up. (I just have a hard time imagining any system being MORE messed up than ours).

 

As for what we did, we absorbed as much of the early diagnostics/consult costs as we could from our paychecks, and for the big surgery, we got a Pet Care card. I don't like credit card debt but this is much smarter than the regular credit card debt I amassed taking care of my pets during poor times like grad school. They financed the whole thing for 0% APR for 18 months, which should be long enough that we pay no interest. So, in the case you decide to roll the dice like me and find yourself WISHING you were insured when something hits the fan, it's a pretty good emergency "self insurance" option.

[Oz Girls]

For us, I believe pet insurance is really good. I agree you need to read the fine print and I acknowlege that I, like herdcentral am in Australia so it might be different for us.

 

I took out pet insurance on our two young bc's when they 8 weeks old, primarily for large ticket accident type costs based on my family experience in the past with a kelpie/bc cross who injured her back jumping after a ball.

 

I was worried about HD in one of my girls but it was specifically excluded in our policy. We took the xray's anyway to check but did not claim them ( the xray's at 6 months look ok). However, quite surprisingly HD was included in our policy the following year, so I do believe that if anything happens on that front we may still be covered.

 

In the first year of cover one of the dogs was seriously ill with a range of problems (scratch to the eye, bowel obstruction (no surgery required), head tremors, consolidated lung, serious limping problems, no appetite, severe exhaustion). All this happened in about 8 weeks (just after we had them spayed) and required quite a large number of tests as each new sympton appeared and as responses occured/ did not occur to medications. I believe the total year's payback from the insurance company was around $AUD 3000. So it really helped.

 

I believe that year we paid about $AUD 25 per dog per month and got back 75% of any bills we had to pay (above the annual vet visits). So we got back after 5 times as much as we had paid out.

 

The following year we had far fewer claims but we probably still got back 20% of what we paid, and this year we had to have more xray's on limping girl so we might be back up to 60%.

 

My current vet suggested taking out full insurance (accident and illness) for 2 years and then if we felt comfortable he said we could drop to accident only when the dogs reached 2 years of age as a majority of illness have presented by that time.

 

My girls are now nearly three and partly because we have had so much paid out, partly because times are so much tougher

and partly because limping girl may have some fundamental issues with her spine or ankle I think we may continue with the full insurance.

[herdcentral]

But, I think I would also be among the people who over my adulthood of having pets that were my financial responsibility (14 years, 10 pets total), If I had insured them all I would have either broke even or lost money on the deal. Herdcentral's case is surely not unheard of but probably not common either (insure the right pet for a short time and get a big payout with really substantial coverage for the condition). But maybe that's just in the U.S.? I have to wonder if Australia's insurance companies aren't less messed up. (I just have a hard time imagining any system being MORE messed up than ours).

 

I have never insured my dogs in my 23 years of pet owning and never had any inclination to untill I stuck a 7 year stretch where I had 2 cruciates, 2 elbow dysplasias and several other bits and pieces. Which added up fast. When I got my new pup I was still reeling form the costs of some expensive genetic orthopedic problems on a previous dog so I made the decision to take it out before anything emerged and review its value at intervals.

 

I couldnt believe it when the elbow problems emerged as her parents had been screened. Anyway we are nearly at the limit of claiming for elbows, and then she came down with pyometra at 10 months old and had an emergency spay. Medically she is a bit of a lemon so I have decided to continue her insurance and will review it at a later date. Personality wise though she is far from being a lemon!

 

The $20,000 dollars estimate is cumulative and if a dogs cruciate goes you fix it, and then the second one goes and you fix it and the dogs returns to a normal life and so on and so it adds up. My elbow dysplastic dog will never be normal despite surgery and I cant do the agility I dreamed of with her. According to my orthovet a lot of ED owners decide to euthanaise and start again because of the high likelyhood of on going management and uncertain outcomes of surgery and the expense of correctly diagnosing the condition. Anyone who has had an ED dog will know what I am talking about here.

 

But she is a super little dog and is active and athletic and although the surgery outcome has frankly been a little dissapointing my decision would be to go down the same track even if I hadnt had insurance, but I can understand the decision not to. Hey I wont be retiring anytime soon!

 

I think my inclination would be to insure a new pup for the first few years and only if the policy included conditions like the dysplasias, which I know a lot dont. I continue to not insure my other 2 dogs at the moment.