Fairness

[Lunar]

Both of our dogs are still crated when we can't be home watching them. Zeeke at 3 and a half years old is still far from trustworthy... he gets into everything he possibly can, harasses the cats, and tears apart boxes and papers and garbage. So he's crated. Zoe was still a pup and due to potty issues we crated her too. Well she's a year and a half now.

 

See, Zoe likes her crate. She sits in it all quiet-like when Zeeke is in his. So yesterday I forgot about her and didn't actually lock her crate. We both went to work. When we came pulling in the driveway, guess who was in the front window, watching us pull in? Yep, Zoe.

 

NOTHING was touched. Nothing was peed on, nothing wad disturbed. She probably slept on our bed all day. I am so proud of her!! I guess she really has grown up. I'd feel fine leaving her loose now during the day - she's earned it.

 

But hubby won't let her. He says as long as Zeeke is crated, she will be too - that it's not "fair" to leave her loose and him locked up. To me that's rediculous. Why punish her for HIS bad behavior? Zeeke is frequently crated when I'm home - Zoe is not. He's already used to it. And as soon as HE starts behaving and being trustworthy, HE can be let loose. He hasn't earned it. But hubby is absolutely not budging.

 

Is there anything I can tell him to convince him that "fairness" isn't really applicable in the doggy world? Zeeke is the dominant of the two, but even so. I don't think it matters, does it?

 

Of course not that it really matters if Zoe is crated or not. She likes her crate, both dogs just settle down and sleep. I'm only out of the house for about 5 hours at a time, 3 or 4 times a week. It's nothing major. But still. I'd love to let her have free roam of the house now that she's a big girl.

[RaisingRiver]

You're right, doggies don't think in fairness. They do think in pack hierarchy though, so that's something to think about should it apply.

 

My older dogs were allowed to roam free while River was crated as a pup. Should River have not proven herself to be good in the house uncrated, she'd be crated to this day while my other dog roams free.

 

I guess since he's applying human emotions (of fairness) to the dogs, try reversing that. Like... it's not fair that women can't go around without shirts on and men can. No reason why they can't, other then it's just a social rule. Well in your house the social rule is destructo behavior=crate and non-destructo=no crate.

 

I'm sure at some houses dogs are allowed to roam and tear things up. And some dogs are NEVER crated. That's not fair to your dogs. And I bet it's not fair that Zeeke gets more of DH's attention then Zoe does. Poor Zoe, feeling left out all the time! See... it's just silly.

[Maralynn]

In all fairness (to your husband) you are also applying human emotions to the equation. You aren't punishing her, especially if she likes her crate.

 

But, the best argument I can think of is that Zoe has earned freedom, Zeeke has not. Or maybe you can offer to leave them both loose, with you cleaning up after Zoe when you get home, and him cleaning up after Zeeke... You're willing to clean up after your dog should she mess something up - is he willing to do the same for Zeeke?

[Lunar]

Tee hee, yeah, poor Zoe. *sniffle sniffle* (He actually gives her quite a bit of attention, they have a wrestle match every night on the bed. She loves her daddy.)

 

Okay, that's true, it's not really a punishment. What can I say, I feel bad for my well-behaved little girl. She really does behave SO well.

 

And that idea wouldn't work... he'd just blame it all on Zoe, lol.

[Maralynn]

Then propose letting the dogs take turns being loose while you're gone. If he wants to leave Zeeke in his crate when it's Zeeke's turn (because he doesn't want to spend the evening cleaning up after Zeeke's freedom), well, that's his choice

[Lunar]

LOL! I like that one!

[shelb'smum]

I have been having the same argument. except mine are crated in one very large crate together. I have forgotten to but Shelby away a couple of times and will come home to no mess nothing eaten broken. just my perfect angel sleeping on their chair. and I would love to leave her out, as she has proved time and again that even at her 6mths of age I can trust her. but Petey cries if she is not with him. and howls and tries to eat the crate and goes berzeker. so the SO says I have to keep both of them crated while we are at work.

and like Zoe, Shelby loves her crate and goes in there without me even having to tell her. such a good puppy!

and I like Maralynn's suggestion. its Fair

[BeezSK]

Gypsy also loves her crate and there have been times I've forgotten to zip it up. Most of the time she'll just sleep in her crate all day with the door open and not think anything of it... 9 out of 10 times. The 10th time I'll come home to a hole chewed in the wall or a present for me on the rug.

If both dogs are fine with being crated all day I would just continue to crate them. There might come a time where you need to crate them for a full day and it's possible Zoe may no longer be keen on that idea.

[Bordercentrics]

The other thing to consider is that when we are gone, our dogs pretty much sleep, so it doesn't matter if they are in their crates or loose. When they hear us coming they will wake up and go to the front window, but otherwise....Zoe probably spent all of her time in the crate and just went to the window when you came home. Dogs do like routine, and hers is to be in her crate.

 

Kathy Robbins

[borderlicious]

Heh, I like Maralynn's suggestion as well.

 

In our house, the dogs that are trustworthy are allowed out of their crates when we're gone. It isn't a matter of fair or unfair, it's a matter of behavior and maturity (and how much you value your house, lol!) but also one of safety. A dog that constantly gets into things when left unattended is a dog at risk for injury. When Zeeke is chomping on the sofa, he might ingest the stuffing in the cushions and get an intestinal blockage. He might nibble on an electrical cord and get a shock. It's not especially likely, but possible, so why risk it by letting an immature dog loose in the house, unattended?

 

Since we're anthropomorphizing here, let's just switch the entire situation over to a familiar human one. Let's say you have two children, one significantly older/more mature: would you prevent, say, a 16 year old from driving a car solely because her 10 year old sibling was not prepared to do so?

 

It really isn't a matter of playing favorites, it's a matter of protecting them (as well as your house). JMO

 

Grace

[Lunar]

Well in this case I think DH is upset because Zoe is the younger one. So using your example, it's like letting your 16 year old drive (because he/she is mature enough), but not letting your 20 year old (because they crashed your car). To me it makes perfect sense!

[prosperia]

If you keep Zeke crated in a room that is closed off to the rest of the house where he can't see Zoe wandering around then he'll never know the difference.

[Tammy525]

What about suggesting that seeing Zoe free might motivate Zeeke to improve his behavior to earn that reward? Given that he doesn't understand dogs don't worry about "fairness", maybe he might fall for the idea that Zeeke is smart enough to figure all that out??? LOL.. Good luck Lunar, I like the every other day idea. Maralynn is always full of clever ideas.

[RaisingRiver]

I agree that the dogs sleep while we're gone (unless they are free and being naughty!!) but the reason I like for my dogs to earn their free is for warding off purposes. This moreso applies to my GSD/Chow, Jaida, who weighs in at 80lbs and is definitely a guard dog on our property. She will actually bite. I kinda also live in the country so like the security that if someone comes to my door when I'm not home they will see (full glass front door) the dogs come sliding to the door in full attack mode (well, not River who will let you steal the good silver). Then the caller knows the dogs are out free to do what they like to them

 

In your case, Zeeke would probably be the dog you'd want to be able to have freedom if that was a useful concern of yours. :/

 

In any case, I like the flexibility of

1. not having a crate set up in my house anymore (which was a x-lg plastic one from Jaida)

2. not having to remember to make sure the dog is in it.

[Lunar]

Tammy - Maybe, LOL. Although honestly I don't know if I'd want him loose even if he didn't destroy things, because he harasses the cats and I'd be nervous. He's a michevious dog... I swear he spends his time plotting what to get into next.

 

And absolutely, I feel kind of odd that we have this great guard dog (he's GREAT at it) and he's locked up in the bedroom. Zoe would be totally useless if someone actually came in, but she is a good alarm dog, she barks like mad if she sees someone... she only turns tail if they approach her.

 

And getting rid of the crates? Oh my god I would LOVE!!!! that. Both are in our bedroom, along with a TV and a king-sized bed. The bedroom is NOT any kind of huge master suite, it's a normal sized room. I can't tell you how many times I've heard a crash in the middle of the night and it's DH walking into a crate door. Sigh.

 

It's so different living here to when I lived at my parents' with Oreo. They have two dogs, they never really think much about the dogs when they come and go. The dogs nap all day.

[Tammy525]

Could the cats have their own room on Zeeke's days out?

[Lunar]

Sorta.... the kitchen is all theirs, all the time.