Denise Wall Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 For those interested, here's a new update on May's training: May - 22 months If it's available, use the "high quality" option (below the video on the right). ETA I've also put this video up on Vimeo, which has much better quality than YouTube: May - 22 months on Vimeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 For those interested, here's a new update on May's training: May - 22 months If it's available, use the "high quality" option (below the video on the right). Nice job! May looks like a keeper . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsADogsLyfe Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 I'm interested. Nice to see May all grown up. She's sure looking nice. I like your sheep too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Oh boy I have been waiting for this!!! Great video as usual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Wow, May looks great and she's really grown up too. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Thanks Denise. May sure is looking good! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Nice video; she looks great. I really like the narration, too, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcollie Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 For those interested, here's a new update on May's training: May - 22 months Hey Denise, What camera do you use? I can't believe how you get that "close up" of sheep coming at you without getting trampled :~) May looks like a fun one to work - that always makes training something you look forward to :~) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Thank you very much for the latest installment! I really enjoy watching May progress through her training, and there is something about your narration that just makes it all so, well, understandable. Please keep them coming - I find them very enjoyable! And ditto the previous comment - how on earth do you get such nice video? Is your camera on a tripod or do you have someone else doing the filming? It's just great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks to all for your nice comments. As I say each time, May is a lot of fun. It could have been different, I think. She started out tight and would *not* move off from handler pressure or voice correction. Since she's my fourth generation of this sort of hardness, I've learned how to not fight them. I just use other ways. I'll have to say I've never been more relaxed and had so much fun training one as I have May. I hope she ends up to be a good one. The training clips for these last few were shot with a Canon XH-A1 HDV camcorder. The first two earlier videos (8 & 10 months) were shot with a Sony PD150 DV camcorder. I just set up a tripod, get a rough idea of the area the camera covers and try to keep things in the field of view. Nobody helps. With the HDV, I have the extra resolution to zoom or move around the field already shot with my software program. It would certainly be easier if I had someone videoing for me. The beginning and ending clips for this last one were shot using a steadycam and my XH-A1. I hope to get more shots with the steadycam but it's an extremely difficult technique to master, much less work a dog while you're doing it. Anyway, thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Great to see May at work again--thanks so much for sharing your journey with her with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotch Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 You should produce instructional videos. You do a great job. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks to all. I've also put this video up on Vimeo, which has much better quality than YouTube: May - 22 months on Vimeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Thanks to all for your nice comments. As I say each time, May is a lot of fun. It could have been different, I think. She started out tight and would *not* move off from handler pressure or voice correction. Since she's my fourth generation of this sort of hardness, I've learned how to not fight them. I just use other ways. I'll have to say I've never been more relaxed and had so much fun training one as I have May. I hope she ends up to be a good one. Would you mind elaborating on that? Frankie (May's 1/2 brother for those who don't know) is the same way, won't move off pressure. He is my first dog like that so it is a new training experience for me. I have been doing some exercises to get him to move off pressure but they are not very natural and I prefer dogs to learn by doing, not by drilling. Overall I really like him a whole lot, especially his attitude. What he needs most right now is lots of day to day experience to refine him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I always love May training video's. Can you give a quick link to share? Dianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Finally had a chance to watch this--it's amazing, Denise. It's really helpful to understand what's going on when you replay the crucial parts in slow motion and explain what is happening from the dog's and the sheep's perspectives. I've never seen that done before. And May is looking great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I always love May training video's. Can you give a quick link to share?Dianne Hi Dianne, I don't understand what you mean by "quick link to share"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Thanks Laurie Would you mind elaborating on that? Frankie (May's 1/2 brother for those who don't know) is the same way, won't move off pressure. He is my first dog like that so it is a new training experience for me. I have been doing some exercises to get him to move off pressure but they are not very natural and I prefer dogs to learn by doing, not by drilling. Overall I really like him a whole lot, especially his attitude. What he needs most right now is lots of day to day experience to refine him. It's kind of hard to explain but I teach it initially in a more mechanical way than I teach anything else. I put sheep up against the fence in a corner, get between the sheep and the dog, and give a verbal cue, usually "get back" or something like that (very calmly and quietly though) and then take them over the where I want them, make them stay, go back to my original position and say "good." Then I let them walk up to the sheep. I repeat until they figure it out. Then I try it in different situations. I teach it almost like a trick. After they learn the voice command, I add some slight form of pressure - a hand, hat or stick flick at them with the command. If I can get them to respond at all to some form of slight body pressure and give me just a little ground, they don't fight me. And I am happy with that and try to build on it. If they're natural, they eventually feel the control of the sheep and good effect of the distance I have put them at. Plus, they're calm enough to think and feel it this way, rather than fight me (which tends to turn it into "me and the dog" thing rather than a "dog feeling the sheep" thing). I find when I start them this way, they normally eventually respond to stronger body pressure correctly without fighting me. Some will eventually respond to stronger voice correction. Some will not. What happens when I try to use too much pressure is they either get harder or faster and tighter, or if they're, say, stopped or lying down and you go at them, they simple plant themselves and won't move away. I mean they just won't go. I should say that it's not just me and my timing causing this. Some very assertive and experienced men have had the same response from these dogs. Perhaps if they had them, themselves, and went at them every day with very aggressive pressure, they might get the response they want and get the dog to move off. However, if I can find a way to do things calmly that work for me, then that's the way I want to do it. Even though I prefer a harder type dog, I don't enjoy going out every day with a "war on dogs" attitude. I just won't do it. I'd like to add that I tried using what was probably a variation of Derek's "dangerous ground" technic, where I used a stick to put pressure slightly in front of May while on a circle and got a pretty decent response that I felt I could build on. I'll certainly try to refine and use this technique more in the future when I run into dogs that don't respond, get harder, or move into direct handler pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I always love May training video's. Can you give a quick link to share?Dianne I guess I have to join your U tube favs. I only have one that I am a fav of and that's the guy that rescues dogs and does the frisbee competitions with. Sometimes, he is kind of strange, but he's a young boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Thanks for the explanation. I was doing almost the same thing with Frankie, putting myself between a group of sheep on a fence and asking him to kick out if he wanted them. I have never had to do exercises like that before, all my other dogs move off pressure very well. Like May, Frankie will not budge to pressure if he is laying down and just gets harder and faster if he is moving. The more I see and hear of May the more similar I think she is to Frankie. They are even starting to look alike Does May still have one ear up and one down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 The more I see and hear of May the more similar I think she is to Frankie. They are even starting to look alike Does May still have one ear up and one down? May has a number of ear configurations - both up, both down, right up/left down, left up/right down. It's quite interesting and I find myself watching to see what they're going to do at any particular time. She will often work sheep with both or at least one up. She was the only one in the litter without prick ears. Is there a recent shot of Frankie I can see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Frankie likes to play the ear game as well. When he starts working his left is up and the right down. After a few minutes the right starts to creep up. I can definitely tell his mood by his ear position. I am afraid that I am having problems with technology lately. My laptop is failing and my digital camera is a piece of junk. Getting recent pics of the dogs posted is on my list of things to do though. I have some on my 35mm camera but I need to finish the roll and get it developed. I promise I will have new pics posted by the end of the month. The boys do need their Birthday mug shots taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Denise, I have taken the technique you describe a step further back and put sheep in a corner and had the dog lie down at an appropriate distance (holding sheep, but no pressure on them)and just lie there. This is not a "stay" but an exercise to teach the dog that if the sheep aren't moving, then they don't have to be doing anything either. I sit on the fence and do nothing for a period of time. Eventually, I will start moving amoungst the sheep very slowly, picking up a foot, checking body condition, or whatnot. If the sheep move, then the dog is allowed to adjust their position as long as they aren't coming in closer and putting pressue on the sheep. Sounds ridiculous, I know, but it teaches patience to some of these fast-wired dogs. It sounds like a great preliminary step to what you are doing. As you know, I like my dogs a bit hard too. It requires me to think more. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi Liz, There's no hurry. Just curious. Wendy, Thanks for your comment. I also do what you describe and I do it early on. It's required if I'm to use them for chores. Since I like to start using them as soon as I can, they learn to hold sheep while I mess with them even if they don't know many other commands. I'm sure having done this helps them understand when I mechanically teach this "get back" command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 As promised, some pics of May's half siblings Frankie and Sage... http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...t=0#entry266363 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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