Friend with trouble brewing... how to handle?

[mbc1963]

I have a friend who adopted a 10-month-old mixed breed about 9 months ago. There's allegedly some Australian Cattle Dog in her. Looks like a random brindled bulldog/shepherd/??? mix. Said friend had no training or dog experience, but had to have a herding dog. I did the whole, "What to consider before you get a border collie" link and all...

 

Anyway, dog arrived home, is cute, playful, etc.. Gets along fine with my Buddy, who can be a very harsh judge of doggie character. They play.

 

About six months ago, my friend came to work and shared that the dog had nipped a man who jogged by on the beach. Her opinion was that the dog hadn't really bitten in aggression, but had been chasing/herding/controlling. She was outraged that the man called her dog "aggressive." No skin broken, life goes on.

 

A month or so ago, I went for a walk in the woods with the friend and dog. When people approached us on the trail, the dog was aggressing: charging at the people, circling around them, barking. I had to leash my dog, who is 100% preditable around humans (now) because I was afraid he'd join in the commotion out of a "pack mentality." (Note to self: Remind yourself on your next bad day how much progress Buddy has made, that you can have him do a lie-stay when another dog is lunging and barking near him.)

 

On that day, my friend was very upset and we talked about getting her a good trainer (I love the guy I used) and getting her working correctly to respond to these situations. She believed this was a reflection of her lack of dominance, and has been working independently to get the dog to listen to her. Didn't call trainer.

 

Last Friday, I heard that this dog had killed a neighbor's guinea hen.

 

Today, upon returning to work, my friend told me that when she stopped at a stop sign on Saturday, her dog leaped out the open window of her car, followed by her sister's dog. Both dogs then proceeded to attack another dog who was in his own yard, until he was yelping in fear.

 

This time, I printed out webpage of my instructor, and pointed out that he'll do training walks with you, to pinpoint problems and give advice. She took the page, but I don't know if she'll follow through!

 

My friend has watched a lot of "Dog Whisperer," and interprets this all through the lens of lack of dominance on her part. She sees it all as a reflection of her own ignorance about what to do.

 

Me... I'm thinking that the dog hasn't been around many other strange dogs in 10 months, and is an adolescent, and needs to be taught what to do. That she's got too much freedom to make bad choices, which reinforce themselves. Also that the owner needs help with learning what to do and say.

 

My big concern is that once the initial "bad feeling" wears off, my friend will once again just let things go. I can see this ending up with a serious dog-on-dog attack or maybe even a bitten human. Then I see the dog being put down. ::Sigh:: She NEEDS to work with someone. I can see this just sort of de-evolving out of sheer inertia. I kind of feel like I'm dealing with a parent who vaguely recognizes something is wrong, but can't get out of her own way to try to make it right.

 

Any advice on how to push a friend to step up to the plate? Without hurting the friendship?

 

Mary

[Seelie Fey]

Maybe, enroll Buddy with the trainer you know and like and ask the friend to come with you with her dog as "moral support" or as a dog for Buddy to practice manners with?

[bc4ever]

Wow! You're right--trouble is brewing--BIG trouble. Maybe if you tell her that if her dog bites someone, it will be taken from her and euthanized, and she could lose everything in a law suit! Tell her if she really loves this dog, she'll contact your trainer, and if she doesn't really love this dog, she should be finding it a home with people who will. I wasn't afraid to seek professional help when I could see that Scooter was exhibiting some behavior I didn't know how to handle, and I didn't want it to escalate. It worked beautifully too. Best money I ever spent. You may just have to get very blunt with your friend, for the dog's sake and anyone who happens to cross his path.

[bcnewe2]

How bout a copy of the laws pertaining to biting/aggressive dogs in your area. If she loves the dog she might come to realize that it doens't matter why but that the end results will not be good for her dog.

 

Either that or maybe the tough love talk, sometimes I find myself sparing real truths that are uncomfortable to face to a friend because I don't want to hurt any feelings. Usually when that happens and things go bad, I do a lot of self blaming for not stepping up to the plate in the first place. If she's truely a friend she will get over hurt feelings and learn something to boot. If not you won't feel so bad when things go wrong and you didn't do what you know you should or could.

 

BTW Why the heck has she got the car windows down far enough for the dogs to jump out of in the first place? That's a real stumper in my mind.

 

Good luck and you're doing a good job so far. Now you just have to step it up a notch. Think of the dog instead of the friend.

 

 

Kristen

[bcnewe2]

sorry double post...

compupter grimlins at work

[Bo Peep]

Take Buddy and your friend to your trainer. Let your friend watch and see how much time and $$ it takes to put into making a good dog.

 

I recently had a talk with my BF's neighbor. Their friend required a BC pup @ 8 weeks old. Their friends GF is pregnant and upset that the now 9 week old puppy is not potty trained. She wants to get rid of the dog- were you NOT aware you were expecting? Did you NOT know a puppy requires potty training? Will you re-home your child when it wets it's diaper? If the dog chews, it that a reason to give up a puppy- WTF were you thinking?

 

I see this time and time again and wonder why they should NOT put the owners down and replace the dog. No, I'm not taking the BF's neighbors friends dog- I can't bear to look. I'm sure the pup will be easily placed at this young age. I need another puppy like a hole in the head- LOL.

 

I can understand how frustrated you are. Good dogs aren't born that way, they are trained and the owners care and spend a lot of time, money and love to make them good dogs. People just don't understand. Oh........I want a dog just like ......that dog....well, it's going to cost you!! Sorry, rant over!!

[afrancis]

Mary,

Do you get the sense that this woman will actually put the work required into this dog or is she just giving you lip service? I think she is lucky to have you steer her in the right direction but, in the end, you can't force her to do anything. If she understands that she is too soft and lacking experience, she needs to have a reason to act. Now. Before this dog becomes too entrenched in its behaviour for her to handle him. The dog jumping out of her car is one good example of how it could be killed. She has to change her behaviour in order for the dog to change his. Has she read any good training books? Did she take the dog to obedience school? Or is the tv her threshold on research? I think you need to have a heart to heart with her about her hopes and expectations for this dog ... an unpredictable, unsocialized, untrained dog is not a good companion and will open her up to lots of anxiety and heartbreak. I often think that weak, submissive women make the worst dog owners. She needs to build confidence in herself, both as a leader and role model for her dog and a strong woman in her own life.

JMO.

Ailsa

[sweet_ceana]

Maybe some sort of intervention is needed. Sometimes people need to hear the harsh truth. Call her out and let her be upset, sometimes you need to hear it to get yourself out of denial. You can tell her that you would rather have her a little pissed off at you then see her go through the agony and guilt of an attack and the pain of having to put down a friend.

[Bo Peep]

Mary,

Do you get the sense that this woman will actually put the work required into this dog or is she just giving you lip service? I think she is lucky to have you steer her in the right direction but, in the end, you can't force her to do anything. If she understands that she is too soft and lacking experience, she needs to have a reason to act. Now. Before this dog becomes too entrenched in its behaviour for her to handle him. The dog jumping out of her car is one good example of how it could be killed. She has to change her behaviour in order for the dog to change his. Has she read any good training books? Did she take the dog to obedience school? Or is the tv her threshold on research? I think you need to have a heart to heart with her about her hopes and expectations for this dog ... an unpredictable, unsocialized, untrained dog is not a good companion and will open her up to lots of anxiety and heartbreak. I often think that weak, submissive women make the worst dog owners. She needs to build confidence in herself, both as a leader and role model for her dog and a strong woman in her own life.

JMO.

Ailsa

I agree with you. So many people just get a pet without realizing how much work it takes to make a GOOD PET. They think they all come that way. HA. The cost of a pet is NOTHING. One day, I will add up lessons, food, leashes, training, time, everything it takes to make a perfect pet- not including MY TIME. 20 years with border collies, another 10 with mutts. Yet, no expert here. I have a few titles, a few ribbons, a few mentions in herding- that's about it. I doubt anyone even remembers my name. Yet, I've worked so hard and tried so hard to make my dogs the best that they can be. I think that's all that we can do.

 

Given the ability that we have, I had a ton of books, a bunch of video's, basically, I was the type of person that could learn better by someone "showing me". My weakness. Then I would say "duh" why didn't I think of that- LOL. I have tried many venues with my BC's. Obedience, herding, agility, service dog. The list continues. Now that I see Bailey is such a water dog- hmmmmmmm. Dock diving???? My experience, and believe me I'm 52, soon to approach the big 5-3 Very scary- I have a little learning under my belt, a lot of great teachers and have made a lot of great friends- some gone now, some don't herd anymore. Some don't do obedience, some can't do agility. But we all have one thing in common. Well trained dogs.

 

May you continue to teach your friend to at least- have a well behaved pet-

Dianne

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Mary, If I was in your shoes, I would give the old heart to heart. Voice your concerns and make her understand that this could potentially be one HUGE nightmare. If she is truly a friend, she will understand what you are saying and hopefully turn around. She has to know that this dog could and apparently will cause damage if she lets it go too far. If it means the life of her dog, another dog or potentially an injured person, you have to wake her up! I know it's tough love, but a real, true friend won't be mad for long! Make her understand the seriousness of the situation in the nicest possible way.

 

good luck

[Bill Fosher]

Step 1: Blow up her TV.

 

Step 2: Tell her to spend the time she would have spent watching badly documented, highly dramatized shows about someone else's experience toward working on her own with a trainer who can see her dog with his own two eyes and give her advice about how to prevent her from causing its death. She can use the money she used to spend on her cable or satellite bill to pay the fees.

 

-----------------------

 

Since that probably isn't going to happen, you need to make it clear to her that she has a life-threatening situation on her hands for her dog -- that if she doesn't change what she's doing, she will cause his death. She also clearly doesn't have the tools at her disposal to fix the situation. How long has she been telling you that she's not dominant enough? What has changed? Only that the dog's behavioral problems have escalated. If she doesn't get help with her dog, it will end up dead and it will be her fault.

 

Frankly, your friend doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. Driving around with windows open wide enough for two dogs to jump out is asking for trouble just as surely as thinking that somehow watching a TV show is a substitute for training your dog. Over and over the dog has the freedom to get into trouble -- why does she think it's okay to let this stuff happen? She needs a clue by four upside the head. Administer it with loving kindness.

[afrancis]

Step 1: Blow up her TV.

 

Step 2: Tell her to spend the time she would have spent watching badly documented, highly dramatized shows about someone else's experience toward working on her own with a trainer who can see her dog with his own two eyes and give her advice about how to prevent her from causing its death. She can use the money she used to spend on her cable or satellite bill to pay the fees.

 

Bill, your aversion to the television gives me a visual: a tv "cadillac ranch".

Mary, it could be worse; it could be the End of my Leash guy up north! But seriously, let us know how it goes...

Ailsa

[juliepoudrier]

Mary,

I agree with the others who have said that as a friend you owe it to this person (and her dog) to be perfectly blunt with her about the situation. We have a consultant where I work who says "You're true friends are the ones who will tell you when your zipper's down." In other words, a true friend will be willing to tell you the hard stuff. Sit her down and have a heart-to-heart. I think you can do that without being judgmental. Tell her you're worried about her and the dog (the dog's life could be forfeit and she could lose everything in a lawsuit). You may think she's being a dumb ass (and she is), but I imagine you can say what you need to say in a way that is not alienating. And even if she does get upset with you, if that's what it takes to get her to follow your advice, then you will have succeeded. And she'll get over her hurt pride.

 

J.

[ziggzmom]

A month or so ago, I went for a walk in the woods with the friend and dog. When people approached us on the trail, the dog was aggressing: charging at the people, circling around them, barking.

 

Last Friday, I heard that this dog had killed a neighbor's guinea hen.

 

Today, upon returning to work, my friend told me that when she stopped at a stop sign on Saturday, her dog leaped out the open window of her car, followed by her sister's dog. Both dogs then proceeded to attack another dog who was in his own yard, until he was yelping in fear.

 

Mary

 

 

Hi Mary,

 

Ask your friend how she would feel if her dog went after a dog that was attached to a leash that a small child was holding? If the child got in the middle of that it could be really tragic.... I'm sure she doesn't want to see her dog bite a child in the face(or anywhere else for that matter)!

 

Hope she will take your advice and get some help....

 

Janet

[mbc1963]

Thanks for all your advice, guys. Janet, I especially like that bit about "what if the dog she attacked was attached to a small child?" Scary, but it gets to the point.

 

I did approach my friend this morning, and said I'd been thinking about the dog, and worrying. She said she and her husband were going to keep her on a really tight leash for right now, and sign up for a class. Which I hope she will do. I'll inquire again in a week or so, to see if she has signed her up for a class, and if she hasn't, I'll encourage her to come take one with me. (My dog actually could use extra socializing in large-group classes.)

 

It is harder than it sounds to say something... I'm not really afraid of hurting feelings, etc., but I am afraid of pushing the issue so hard that it shuts off dialogue for the future.

 

You're all good advisers, though - I hope I can keep you posted with good news.

 

Mary