Strange Agility Trainer

[DTrain]

I was just reading another thread about dog sports people be competetive and something occured to me. I contacted an agility trainer last week I found after making my first post. She asked me all about my dog and what I wanted to do with him. I explained that I was looking into agility as a hobby, the key being, looking into it. I don't do trials for a prize, I do them for my own satisfaction and for my dogs, I take a very casual approach to it and I expect I will do the same with agility. Frankly I would rather work in a field with my dog on stock all by ourselves. The dog I have in mind for agility has his basic training and we are starting his stock work and again, I am looking into it. The trainer explained that it was mandatory that my dog take her own special obedience course before we do anything else and she told me the price. She told me that she would then evaluate the dog and told me her price for that. She then told me that if the dog had potential she would continue his training and it would take about a year and told me her non-refundable price for that and her up-front deposit. She then told me that if the dog did not perform to her special standards that I would be eliminated from her course. She told me that becuase he is a BC she had higher expectations. Something does not feel right about this. Are my expectations out to lunch. Can I train a dog or have a dog trained for just the fun. Perhaps my first question to my fellow board members should have been, what should I be looking for, what may I expect. I have run into a couple of odd situations with my dogs since moving east. I was refused entry into a small club of amature and beginner herding dog folks because they do not allow border collies, what was that all about. These were only phone calls I was making. I come from the west with open grass lands, sheep, cows, horses and my border collies, shut up and work.

[Laurae]

Sounds bizarro to me...

I'd keep looking.

[Root Beer]

I'd keep looking, too!

 

Some sort of formal basic class is usually required at the club/center where one wants to take Agility, so the part where she would want you to take her basic class doesn't strike me as so ood. It makes sense that an instructor would want to make sure all of the dogs have a certain standard foundation. So, if it were just that, OK.

 

Then to have the dog evaluated to take Agility - not so odd, but usually not required when one has taken the required basic class! And I've never heard of having to pay for that evaluation! Around here it is done for free, when needed.

 

But the criteria for the class sounds really out of whack! That you would pay a non-refundable fee and then might not be permitted to finish what you pay for!

 

And expectations should be made upon the individual dog, not the breed!

 

Your expectations are not out to lunch at all. Agility classes geared toward learning the sport for fun definitely exist.

[Cynthia P]

Hey...i'd keep looking for a different agility person...or make your own equiopment and play/train at home.

 

As far as stock work, if you want to come to the East side of Toronto that is where most of the trials are. There are a couple of people that work BC's in your area but no trials that I know of that direction (although we'd welcome them!)

 

Check out www.ontariobordercollieclub.com or www.nebca.net for upcoming trials.

 

Check with AAC for clubs/trainers in your area for agility.

 

Welcome to the province from a fellow displaced westerner.

 

cynthia

[dogsofmenace]

Move on, and do it fast! Agility is about having fun with your dog, that should be the number one reason to do it and every dog can join in the fun!

I'm especially wary about the fact that she said she had higher standards because he's a border collie. Any trainer that holds a particular breed in higher or lower standard should be overlooked.

I would look for a positive trainer that welcomes anyone and any dog. Obedience training is often a prerequisite to agility classes, yes, but all of that? No.

[in2adventure]

RUN.....RUN AWAY!

 

Agility is suposed to be a fun bonding experience for you and the dog. The lady sounds like a Nazi trainer that is only interested in training dogs that will make her look good. Anyone that won't let you finish the classes you paid for because SHE doesn't think your dog is good enough, needs to re-evaluate their program.

 

I compete and train with lots of people/dogs that will never compete or if they do, will never get out of novice classes (I wonder about Lucia sometimes ) but they do it for the love of the sport. If some crazy lady gave them (or me) that speech, they would have quit LONG ago or never even tried it. Find another trainer and enjoy your sports

[ClickMeBC]

If you do not meet her special standards, she'll eliminate you from her class? After all that she'd have put you through to get to that point?

 

Yes, find someone else. I will echo what's been said. I find that her having higher expectations because your dog is a BC really assuming your dog's personality, something no trainer should ever do before even meeting the dog.

 

Please believe that that's abnormal and those who really love the sport for what it truly is are not like that. Do continue to look, and have fun with your dog.

[herdcentral]

One of our big clubs have puppy, foundation adult, pre- novice etc classes that they like you to take and work through at the pace of you and your dog. Breed of dog is irrelevent. There is an annual membership fee.

 

Nobody cares if you want to compete for fun or for titles, nobody cares what breed you have. You can be as serious or non competitive as you like. It is all about building a relationship with your dog.

[DTrain]

Hey...i'd keep looking for a different agility person...or make your own equiopment and play/train at home.

 

As far as stock work, if you want to come to the East side of Toronto that is where most of the trials are. There are a couple of people that work BC's in your area but no trials that I know of that direction (although we'd welcome them!)

 

Check out www.ontariobordercollieclub.com or www.nebca.net for upcoming trials.

 

Check with AAC for clubs/trainers in your area for agility.

 

Welcome to the province from a fellow displaced westerner.

 

cynthia

 

Thanks everyone. I am going to look around and take my time. I am also going to look into training I can do at home. I read a thread on weave poles training. I will go through this section and look for other input. I will also do some frisbee work with him starting him on the ground to get him familiar. Any suggestions on what I could train would be most welcome. Thanks, Dave.

[Pat W.]

Definately run in the other direction! This sounds like she's in it for whatever she can make off it and thats it. Some clubs do require basic obedience, and/or puppy kindergarten. Alot of clubs offer foundations classes at progressive levels, then onto training for those that want to be competitve running sequences or courses appropriate for their current competitve level ie starters/open/master -excellent. Usually an instructor will use the foundations classes to evaluate your dog, advancing or holding back the team according to the teams needs/abilities. There's no "special" classes, no non refundable fee and no booting out of training if you dont live up to the instructors skewed standards. To expect more out of a dog just because its a particular breed is foolish to put it mildly. While you're looking there are all kinds of things to teach, targeting, walking on a tippy board, laddeer work for hindend awareness, all kinds of stuff

[DTrain]

Definately run in the other direction! This sounds like she's in it for whatever she can make off it and thats it. Some clubs do require basic obedience, and/or puppy kindergarten. Alot of clubs offer foundations classes at progressive levels, then onto training for those that want to be competitve running sequences or courses appropriate for their current competitve level ie starters/open/master -excellent. Usually an instructor will use the foundations classes to evaluate your dog, advancing or holding back the team according to the teams needs/abilities. There's no "special" classes, no non refundable fee and no booting out of training if you dont live up to the instructors skewed standards. To expect more out of a dog just because its a particular breed is foolish to put it mildly. While you're looking there are all kinds of things to teach, targeting, walking on a tippy board, laddeer work for hindend awareness, all kinds of stuff

 

Thanks, I am going to spend some time today researching some of the things I can do with my dog myself. I mentioned weave pole and I think that would be fun. I saw a show on TV, I think it was Top Dogs where they had a course of distance, 20 feet, 30 feet etc. A single handler would throw a frisbee, the dog would go and get it. They awarded points for how far the dog and if the dog left the ground. This was done under a time limit. It looked like fun for the dog and handler. I don't know the array of agility sports. Can you tell me where I may go on the web to find out. This might be a good starting point for me. Thanks.

[Shelley86]

I'd start with checking out the Agility Association of Canada's website, they do have a club listing there and perhaps you could find someone in your area to talk to. I built a whole bunch of my own agility equipment and ordered some tunnels from the US. There are a lot of good articles and even some agility training videos on YouTube you could check out. I do agility only for fun with my dogs, I'm not into competition yet but may do so in the future with my new BC puppy.

 

Frisbee is known as Disc Dog as well. There is one website I remember Canadian Disc Dog Association. There are some trainers that will help you out in learning, but frisbee is also something you can do on your own. I'm going to have to wait and see if my puppy takes to it, I don't know yet, she's too young

 

Anyway, good luck and I hope I didn't mess my information up! I haven't slept much these past few days.

[DTrain]

I'd start with checking out the Agility Association of Canada's website, they do have a club listing there and perhaps you could find someone in your area to talk to. I built a whole bunch of my own agility equipment and ordered some tunnels from the US. There are a lot of good articles and even some agility training videos on YouTube you could check out. I do agility only for fun with my dogs, I'm not into competition yet but may do so in the future with my new BC puppy.

 

Frisbee is known as Disc Dog as well. There is one website I remember Canadian Disc Dog Association. There are some trainers that will help you out in learning, but frisbee is also something you can do on your own. I'm going to have to wait and see if my puppy takes to it, I don't know yet, she's too young

 

Anyway, good luck and I hope I didn't mess my information up! I haven't slept much these past few days.

 

Excellent, good information, thanks.

[silhouettestable]

I'm in agreement with everyone else. Run! A couple of years ago I wanted to start one of my dogs in agility, but only for fun. I found a place where he didn't need any other classes or evaluations first, and each session was for 6 weeks (not committed to a whole year). I took him through his beginner and intermediate but was then running short on both time and funds to continue, so now I just practice at home for fun. I remember from another post that you said you're NE of Toronto. If you're interested in looking into this trainer, her website is: http://www.paus-n-train.com/index.htm

 

Also, just last year I joined the CDDA and took that same dog to a few disc trials, which was a lot of fun. My daughter also took him into the junior handler classes. A couple of websites you can check out re: disc are the Canadian Disc Dog Association (CDDA) which was already mentioned above, the Southern Ontario Disc Houndz (SODH) http://southernontariodischoundz.blogspot.com/, who happen to have a couple of things coming up in July in the Scugog/Port Perry/Port Hope areas - you can get the details if you check out their 2008 competition and event schedule, and another site of interest is the Canadian Disc Dogs yahoo group http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadiandiscdogs/

I don't get out to many of the disc trials because most of them are to the west of Toronto or out around Ottawa so it's quite a drive for me. Out around Ottawa there's another club, I'm not sure of the website but I think the club is called the Airborne Disc Dogs or something like that. If you were interested in that one you should be able to find out more either by doing a search or by contacting someone who's hosting a trial out that way. Off the top of my head I remember someone by the name Pat Nadarajah who's out that way who could tell you more. I believe she's listed as one of the contacts for the Port Hope trial.

[DTrain]

I'm in agreement with everyone else. Run! A couple of years ago I wanted to start one of my dogs in agility, but only for fun. I found a place where he didn't need any other classes or evaluations first, and each session was for 6 weeks (not committed to a whole year). I took him through his beginner and intermediate but was then running short on both time and funds to continue, so now I just practice at home for fun. I remember from another post that you said you're NE of Toronto. If you're interested in looking into this trainer, her website is: http://www.paus-n-train.com/index.htm

 

Also, just last year I joined the CDDA and took that same dog to a few disc trials, which was a lot of fun. My daughter also took him into the junior handler classes. A couple of websites you can check out re: disc are the Canadian Disc Dog Association (CDDA) which was already mentioned above, the Southern Ontario Disc Houndz (SODH) http://southernontariodischoundz.blogspot.com/, who happen to have a couple of things coming up in July in the Scugog/Port Perry/Port Hope areas - you can get the details if you check out their 2008 competition and event schedule, and another site of interest is the Canadian Disc Dogs yahoo group http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadiandiscdogs/

I don't get out to many of the disc trials because most of them are to the west of Toronto or out around Ottawa so it's quite a drive for me. Out around Ottawa there's another club, I'm not sure of the website but I think the club is called the Airborne Disc Dogs or something like that. If you were interested in that one you should be able to find out more either by doing a search or by contacting someone who's hosting a trial out that way. Off the top of my head I remember someone by the name Pat Nadarajah who's out that way who could tell you more. I believe she's listed as one of the contacts for the Port Hope trial.

 

Thanks Great information. I do stock dogs and goose work but I am starting to get excited about agility. I am always looking for something for my dogs to do. Actually my life revolves around my dogs. Sorry, I just noticed something. I am sorry I messed up, don't drink and type, we are NW of Toronto.

[silhouettestable]

Thanks Great information. I do stock dogs and goose work but I am starting to get excited about agility. I am always looking for something for my dogs to do. Actually my life revolves around my dogs. Sorry, I just noticed something. I am sorry I messed up, don't drink and type, we are NW of Toronto.

 

You should be in luck then if you want to do the disc trials. Usually there seem to be lots of trials to the west of Toronto, plus sometimes clinics etc. Mount Forest, Caledon, Bresleau, Binbrook, Brampton, Clifford. I don't even know where some of those places are, but when I've looked them up on a map they're always to the west. Good for you, bad for me. Even if you don't go to compete you should go as a spectator and check them out. The freestyle classes are amazing, some of the moves those dogs and handlers pull off are pretty incredible. Especially keep your eyes open for Angela Ewtushik and if you get a chance sign up for one of her clinics. I only just started with the novice single disc class, no fancy freestyle moves for us yet (or probably ever - so many things to do, so little time!)

[G. Festerling]

Hmmm...is the trainer any good? Have you seen her work her dogs? Does she use motivation? How do her dogs behave? Is her teaching style towards the commited folks negative/positive? Drillsargent style?

 

Or does she just simply expect for others to push themselves to do their best? Maybe because she does?

 

I am not happy about the money up front thing but then again, in many industries that is the only way you get a service. And on top of that, is she the kind of trainer that will also acknowledge that your expectations are just as high of her in return?

 

I don't think training for fun and commited training are exclusive. But I do know that many people that "casualy" train (and I was one of them for a long time due to different circumstances) also don't train commited.

 

If and when you go show, even just for fun, you do reflect on your trainer. That is why a good trainer will do their best with you. But they also deserve some effort in return.

 

Just a different point of view I guess. Coming from me as a trainer and a student. I learned a lot in both venues.

[DTrain]

Hmmm...is the trainer any good? Have you seen her work her dogs? Does she use motivation? How do her dogs behave? Is her teaching style towards the commited folks negative/positive? Drillsargent style?

 

Or does she just simply expect for others to push themselves to do their best? Maybe because she does?

 

I am not happy about the money up front thing but then again, in many industries that is the only way you get a service. And on top of that, is she the kind of trainer that will also acknowledge that your expectations are just as high of her in return?

 

I don't think training for fun and commited training are exclusive. But I do know that many people that "casualy" train (and I was one of them for a long time due to different circumstances) also don't train commited.

 

If and when you go show, even just for fun, you do reflect on your trainer. That is why a good trainer will do their best with you. But they also deserve some effort in return.

 

Just a different point of view I guess. Coming from me as a trainer and a student. I learned a lot in both venues.

 

I do not have a problem with her asking for anything and setting the rules as she wishes. I have no idea if she is a great trainer. She gave me no information on her work. I do have a problem with her attitude toward border collies however. I train stockdogs, it happens that the vast majority of them are border collies but I tend to focus on the person, the dog and what they would like to accomplish and need to accomplish and I do not casually train. She can expect complete effort and committment on my part but she was told right up front that I am not trying to create a world champion, I do not care if he is a world champion. He is a stock dog and I am expecting he will be a good one. I do care that he and I have a very enjoyable experience and that we develop our team relationship in a manner that works for us. I take great pride and take great pleasure watching my dogs work, I am thankful for them. I demand perfection but I see that as a goal to always stive for. In other words I don't ever want to stop learning. They seem to display enjoyment and that pleases me very much. I see your point but she just strikes me as the kind of person who is focussed in a very different direction than myself and I do not want to work that way. Soemthing did not feel right. I asked for input because I am new to agility. I wanted to know if my expectations were out of line. I am glad you have made these comments, I am thankful for all the input my fellow board members have given me. I am now confident I will find someone with whom I can work and greatly enjoy the experience. I am much better informed than when I first made that phone call.

[Northof49]

The trainer explained that it was mandatory that my dog take her own special obedience course before we do anything else and she told me the price. She told me that she would then evaluate the dog and told me her price for that. She then told me that if the dog had potential she would continue his training and it would take about a year and told me her non-refundable price for that and her up-front deposit. She then told me that if the dog did not perform to her special standards that I would be eliminated from her course. She told me that becuase he is a BC she had higher expectations. Something does not feel right about this. Are my expectations out to lunch. Can I train a dog or have a dog trained for just the fun.

 

It sounds like a bunch of crap to me, other than that the dog goes through a set of obedience classes first. We do that at our Club and then we know whether or not the dog is ready to go into agility or needs more obedience work on it.

 

To me what you need to seek in an agility instructor is one that has been competing in the high levels of agility - AAC and USDAA, so that they can provide you with the proper foundation work should you decide to go beyond training just for fun and decide to compete. That may not seem important to some people to have the proper foundaiton work laid when they "just want to have fun", but when that person decides they want to compete, they are sadly lacking in the skills they need in the ring, and either have to go back and spend a year re-training or they never develop the skills and never progress in compeititon, which leaves them frustrated. Each dog and each handler have their strong points and weak points, and just because a dog is a Border Collie doesn't mean it is going to be a world class agility dog. The dog may not be that caliber, or may be but the handler is not, or vice versa. You know the old saying - good dog, too bad about the handler or from the dog's point of view - I have an idiot for a handler, where can I go to upgrade

[Ace]

A little advice some people gave me while trialing with my older mix breed (we were talking about my puppy and where to start classes). Ask if you could sit in and observe one of the classes here. I know most training places require your dog to know basic commands, sit, down, stay, come, etc. Most clubs where I live evaluate the dog based on what they know, and then accept them into the class based on that.

 

I do agree with what everyone else said about looking for a different trainer, as for agility stuff you can do at home, if you want ideas on how to train, I suggest you observe videos on youtube. I completely self trained my older dog for agility based on videos from youtube and helpful advice from friends (on boards like this one and youtube). We had to retrain a lot of things from where I made a mistake, but we have a really strong bond because of it, and it has been a lot of fun. I really do support the agility is for fun thing, and the trainer you were looking into seems to be in it only for money.

 

Diane