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  1. Yeah Maverick was raised in some pretty crappy conditions. He wasnt returned. Actually I am pretty sure all the pups from his litter were sold except for him, and his sister was returned. I am pretty sure his owner just didnt feel like taking care of them. Maverick was probably one of the shyest and hardest to socialize of the puppies that came in to the rescue. There were 6 total. Mav his sister and than 4 males from a different litter that were the same age. I am not sure if the owner was being dishonest or what. According to the rescue he just didnt feel like selling them, which is his reason. The males from the other litter adjusted pretty fast. Mav had a lot of problems, but he really is such a great dog. Especially considering the lack of socialization when he was a puppy. He is very well adjusted (so long as you arent male or a women that is tall and wearing dark/flamboyant clothes rofl).
  2. This was all very helpful thank you. I think I might just contact the breeder to see what comes of it. Mav shows a lot of potential on stock, I am hoping to get him started sometime soon, time is really an issue for me since I am in school full time and I work. His sister has been quite successful on stock so far. I am not sure how the litter registration worked or even if there were more puppies in the litter. I only know about him and his sister. His sister was sold and then returned, which is why she ended up in the rescue, I am not sure if he sold the other puppies and there is in fact a registration. From what you all said it seems the logical thing to do would be to contact his breeder. I have no intention of breeding Mav, but I have thought of doing herding with him. I guess I dont need his pedigree or registration, but its something I want, even if it does seem pointless to spend time and effort trying to get it. Thanks so much for all the responses!
  3. He isnt registered, he never was, only his sister was. At least thats what I have been told, is there anyway I could contact someone from ABCA and they could look up puppies registered under two specific dogs?
  4. I posted awhile back when I adopted my newest addition Maverick. He is just wonderful. Both his parents are ABCA registered and I have a copy of his pedigree with all the ABCA numbers in his pedigree, and I would really like to register him with ABCA. I have thought about going through his 'breeder' who turned the puppies over to the rescue because he didnt feel like spending the time and energy to sell them (they were all about 6 months old). I know his sister is ABCA registered. I am at a loss of how to do it through ABCA without his owner. I really want to avoid his owner requesting money in return for registering him for me. Thanks
  5. I just recently started to shape everything with the newest addition to my family. I was having a crap load of trouble shaping him to wave. The thing I found most helpful is not to give up! I found that sometimes if I sit on the floor when first shaping it brings out certain behaviors then when I stand or sit in a chair. I also have found that shaping your dog to look away from you also helps to shape certain behaviors. I started with my older border collie, Rush. She loves her toys, so I would set a toy a foot or so in distance and normally she wont pick up her toys if they are that close without a release. The idea is to have her looking at it so when she was released she would go pick it up. All I did was stare at the toy and when she looked at it I would click and treat. Later I started doing this when we were shaping box games, I stared at the box long enough. All you really need is a few glances, and bam they start to get it, especially a dog who has been shaped before. After that we moved to the more complex things, go to your mat, hug the cone. Anything with props is easier to shape I think because you can use the staring thing. I have noticed with a lot of dogs (even if it takes awhile) they will stop paying attention to you if you aren't paying attention to them. At least with my dogs I found these things work, sometimes I cheat though and use my body or I will lure. Pure shaping is really hard on me lol.
  6. Update: Today I took Maverick and Rush over to my next door neighbors while I house sat for her. Their lab needed some exercise so I brought the chuck it. Every time I have gone outside this week Mav has been on a leash and I have been armed with a clicker and treats. Today was the first day that didnt happen. He was wonderful. He focused on the toy and he once tried to gather Rush, a simple 'leave it' and he stopped. He is catching on great to the command. I had my friend throwing the ball back and forth for Rush Wednesday night so we had a lot of time to really work on that command. I am so proud of him and slowly I see it working. I realize he needs more work on it before I can trust him completely. If I stopped now knowing my skills he'd probably be gathering her again tomorrow. It might have as well been the change in scenery. Either way I am super proud of mah puppy! He did good today . Sometimes I think he isnt what I wanted or he wont have potential to be this fantastic dog and then he nudges my arm and wiggles his butt and I remember all I need is my clicker. Even that is negotiable . Anyway, just wanted to share and again thank everyone for their input! Diane
  7. Sorry I keep saying herding, but I dont really mean it in the same sense. Its just my brain connecting his natural instinct with his stalking and circling of Rush. I will go with leave it then! I am working on a kind of look click/redirect to the point he looks and redirects right away to look back at me. I figure after a few more sessions I can start to add a command and then just work on it. He was offleash today and did pretty well. I didnt intend him to be offleash but he was. I am going to try agility tomorrow but have him on leash! He is catching on so I am glad I havent seen him circle Rush completely in a whole day! Thanks everyone
  8. I have a very clear idea of what I am going to try with him tomorrow before 4-H! does anyone think that tying him up would be a good idea, like I have a lung leash about 15 feet tied to the tree, I used it to tie up mav/rush and run around the BY with a toy to build drive. I figure if I hook him up and let rush run around, maverick will never get away from me and I can better intercept his behavior. I just wanted to make sure no one though that would be a bad idea, almost like he might relate the tie up to being allowed to get intense and in turn make his obsession over Rush worse? Gah lol. The problem with maverick is he isnt very straight forward with going for toys if Rush is going after them. It has happened that he will get to the ball before Rush and purposely leave it then turn around and circle her. Honestly I would prefer it if he ran after the ball and tried to take it from her - not that he would be successful. In my opinion you only should focus on training out behaviors that bother you. Taking the toy from Rush or Bear doesnt bother me. If they want it bad enough it will end up in a tug of war session or one of them will go grab another toy. I wish sincerely that that was my problem D:. I should say it did give me some ideas on how to get him to just chill though! I really do wish he was more toy driven. He seems to have his instinct pouring out his ears though. I live in Silver Spring MD, I think I am familiar with the place you are talking about that offers the classes, as its the only one I have heard of that does offer CU classes (in the area). I am hoping to get the book but I am not sure I have enough time this semester to take the courses (my classes end mid-may though). I am really busy with school and homework. If I miss anything they will kick me out of the program I am in and I will lose my scholarship. Plus I have work. I have to be careful about scheduling or I overdo it. I am afraid if I try and take classes in the next two months I will over do it and end up messing something up lol. Please let me know how your course goes though! I am interested to get a perspective about it. I have been thinking about e-mailing the CU instructor and asking her about a private lesson just until I can take group classes. I have done a little of the look at that game with Rush. A friend told me about it. Rush has some reactivity issues. What I thought was fear aggression was actually a low tolerance to 'rudeness' very low lol. Basically my fear of bringing her around dogs has made her uncomfortable around them so she acts like she is about to attack a dog (im sure it has something to do with me being scared when there are dogs around). Anyway it progressed into her freaking out and like acting funky when she sees dogs. Most people sense it as aggression and I want her to not focus on dogs. I just recently started the look at that game and just today I already have results (of course not enough to stop training). I am just really happy so far with what has come from the one CU thing I have heard of and I REALLY want the book lol. One more question. If I am not working with Maverick training on this, should I not have them out together. Like in the house is okay, but outside -unless its a potty break or I am working on training him to stop, should I have them out there separately? I feel like this is a stupid question like oh of course Diane, because if you take them out there together and he herds rush its reinforcing the behavior. But I keep thinking like what if he starts to improve and isnt doing it, can I safely try and up his tolerance and move on? Also should I add a command to it? Like when a dog jumps up, you tell them off, should there be a 'stop herding rush command'?
  9. Thank you for the replies! I think I am going to start taking maverick outside to play with a leash on and maybe have someone play with Bear and Rush while I am working with maverick. I always walk my dogs separately. It becomes chaos when I walk them together. They all go in different directions and I cant accurately handle them all. Rush and Bear is no problem to walk together but involving Maverick and his in the process of learning leash manners into any mix is asking for trouble lol. It wasnt so bad when I started so I am thinking letting his behavior go on so long is why its gotten so bad. When I say 'herding' I generally mean him and his sheepdog behavior lol. I would love some ideas on self control games! I pretty much had to wing it with Rush, but for some reason Maverick feels so much harder then Rush (even though I clearly remember struggling a lot in the process of training Rush anything). I guess its because the only thing he is ever intense on is animals. He gives me his attention when I have food and sometimes when I have a toy, but never the attention he gives Rush. I do have to say his movement is beautiful and I really REALLY want to get him on stock. I understand if I have to wait until he stops the behavior of herding my other dogs. Its crazy how he acts around Rush, its like he doesnt see her as a dog when we are outside, only in the house, and even then... I am hoping to order the CU book off Cleanrun after I get paid on wednesday. I have until then been asking some people about the concepts in the book. The CU course that is close to me isnt until april/may or over the summer. If I can get in I will do that. What I am curious about though is HOW do I make a correction? Say like I have Maverick on a leash and Rush runs by and I can see the look in mavericks eye and he is about to go after her. Would walking away, then click/treat be a correction, or should I go about it in a different way? like what if that doesnt work? I think thats what I have had the most confusion about. Thankss again everyone. I have a little more faith in getting the behavior to stop. I would really love to just see him run around and play with the dogs instead off constantly circling and nipping Rush.
  10. I opened this to read and lurk, and Liz I have to save your link saved me really. I had never heard anyone put it like that. I always took my dogs 'aggression' towards puppies and other dogs that got in her face as well, aggression. She has a low tolerance I think, but it gave me a lot of ideas about her current situation. It was just what I needed. So I thank you deeply for sharing!
  11. I seem to keep coming to you guys for my problems but no one else knew the answer. Maverick is so far beyond anything I expected for my next dog. I didnt think I would ever end up with a dog so focused on me and oblivious to people around him and so well behaved with other dogs! He is great and smart. His instinct is amazing and I hope to get him on sheep this spring/summer. My one problem I can never seem to fix is his fixation with herding Rush (my other border collie). Basically he circles her any chance he gets. I dont remember why but I was told to get him to stop this before it gets too bad. Well I only got him two months ago and I have no clue how to stop it! lol. I thought maybe if I get him more transfixed on the toy I am throwing he will stop herding/nipping at Rush when shes running. Well that only worked out kinda well. He only about 45% of the time chases the toy and the other herds Rush. Sometimes its just chasing, other times he makes contacts and she will turn around and bite him. Nothing serious just kind of a leave me alone thing. I do hold him sometimes while I throw the ball for Rush but I feel like that just makes him more intense on her. I have tried going all AH AH and making him sit, and that works, he will stop circling her and sit/lie down, but he is still focused on her and as soon as she runs, hes off herding her again. I feel ready to pull my hair out! lol, he is such a good boy on his recall but still he pretends not to hear me when I call him. Rush was like this at one point, though never this bad. As she aged she got over it though. The only thing she has stalked/herded since she was 6 months has been chickens and tennis balls. I am afraid something happened to maverick in the 6 months I didnt have him and his behavior was allowed to esclate to where it is now, and even was given the opportunity to grow more here because I havent been successful in stopping in. I dont want to use physical correction. I have as of lately been taking all the dogs out separately so Maverick doesnt have a chance to herd, and then I will tie Rush to the tree while Mav stalks her, I will practice calling his name and click/treat to get his attention focused on me. I am at a loss now, but I really really dont want this to go any further. Will starting him on sheep help? what about CU? I dont know a lot about the program, if anyone is willing to explain it to me. I have had it suggested for Rush and I am planning on taking a CU class with her this summer because she has some freak-outs with men who wear hats and she tends to lose self control around children (she is overly happy lol). I would really love to hear what people have to say! I asked a few trainers but they didnt have BCs so they werent sure what to tell me. One did suggest CU, but I wasnt sure if that would help or hinder? I am only familiar with the look at it game (or whatever its called). Diane
  12. I was a JH for awhile, but I aged out. NADAC you have a JH program, basically all it does (same courses) just knocks you down a jump height and gives you more course time. Once you turn 18 you age out, same titles and everything though. AKC you have to get a Junior number (from the website) and register as a JH, much like USDAA in order to run as a JH. AKC JHers run the same courses and everything, just they dont compete against adults, USDAA JH program is completely separate I believe, so JHers get their own titles. DOCNA has a JH program, but it ends when you turn 16. You get different titles for being a JH. I dont really know about the others, but most of them are the same, you just have to read the rules. IMO its easiest to be a junior in NADAC, as you dont have to do anything to get there and you still get the same titles, the height reduction is a blower though. Most juniors I know of that trial in other venues just enter and compete against the adults, since I am pretty sure there is a charge to register as a JH with AKC and USDAA. Diane
  13. I heard that a faster quicker contact (into a 2o2o) actually causes less stress because they are moving so fast by the time they stop the weight is shifted onto their HQ as well as their shoulders - nearly equally. Like if a dog jumped the apex of the AF, touched the contact and landed directly into a 2o2o, it would be better then a dog that creeped down the side of the AF very quickly and just put all stress on their shoulders. But maybe my information source is wrong? XD. I only do NADAC so there are no steep contacts for mah pooches anyway, was just curious about your theory of the target teaching them to reduce stress on their shoulders by reducing the impact. How did you teach them to rock back with a target though? or was it like naturally with the target. (sorry, kinda slow tonight trying to connect dots)
  14. My friend just recently started training equipment with her young BC (as his growth plates just closed). But during his first year besides letting him be a puppy, his agility foundation consisted of many tricks, Moe Strenfels(sp?) foundation DVD (which I am not getting because I keep hearing its awesome, and its never too late for foundation training!), and a bunch of shaping for 2o2o and I think basic table/tunnel stuff (when he was like 8-9 months), building a lot of forward drive and collection, as well as reading her body language. Since I kinda went every which way with Rush and I have been reading more about agility I would really like to do something similar with my next dog (whether it be puppy or adult:D). I am with Northof49. I taught 2o2o without a nose touch(and will from now on). I feel like you are teaching the dog to touch a target and not really to do the 2o2o behavior, so I shaped it with Rush, and I am shaping it with Bear (though she isnt really into shaping so its more like an experiment lol), then I backchained so Rush knew where her position was and drove into it. Took me awhile to catch on because most advice I got for 2o2o work was ALL you MUST train with a target, and it didnt work lol. Each dog is different but I found that both my dogs had trouble grasping that the nose touch was transitioned into a 2o2o position and that no matter where I was that they should drive into the position with the same speed because they would still get the reward. However you teach it I think just what everyone is trying to say is be consistent. . I <3 puppy training. So much fun!
  15. I know I havent posted in awhile but I am always lurking and reading post, you guys are my number 1 source for border collie information! I actually came across a video on youtube the other day (and as I dont want to really get myself in trouble with the breeder I wont post it here - though you can PM me and I will send it to whoever would like to see it). Basically it was young/older dogs starting round pen work. In one of the videos there were multiple young BCs allowed to go after the sheep after they were cornered. Biting them and really digging into them pushing them around stuff like that. It just didnt feel right, especially since there were multiple dogs and not just one. The person in the pen with the rake (or whatever the thing is called - can you tell I am a newb?) just stood there and let it happen, this implied to me that this is what they wanted to happen. In another video there was just one dog, same thing, sheep in one corner, dog running around the sides and just biting the sheep, handler doing nothing. My question is, is this how normal sheepdog are trained? or is this a bad method or a different method or what? Because I havent really seen it before and it just seemed wrong to me. Nothing about it looked like it should have (to me). Though like I said before I am really new at this and have no idea what I am talking about or looking for really D: just know what I see and how I feel? I guess. I am hoping to get into herding still! Thinking maybe over the spring . Diane
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