Teaching a dog to work away from you`

[Ace]

I have a BC puppy named Rush, she is a little over 4 months. We have been having this issue for awhile now, mostly I am trying to prepare her to follow direction with my hand. I havent had such luck yet. She likes to jump up on my body while we run. We are doing simple flat work, jump standards, and tunnels. My other dog never jumped on me while we did agility, she always worked away from me.

 

I would rather just have her understand that she needs to be away from me without using a distance command, since I am saving that for actual distance. I am open to any and all advice. I train on my own, so suggestions from an instructor arent really an option.

 

I understand completely that she is a puppy, and I just wanted to make that clear. I dont want to kill her spirit and drive, I want to channel it. I am just a tad bit unsure how to do that.

 

Thanks ahead of time,

 

Diane

[pammyd]

I have only been doing agility a short while but when we started we didnt run with the dogs at all

 

We got them to stay at one side of the jump wings and called them thru, we called them thru one lot of wings and tuned and chucked a ball thru the others

This ment the dogs got used to the idea they had to run thru the wings

 

But she is a v little baby so I wouldnt do too much yet - just a couple of mins with lots of play and treats so its all fun fun fun

[Pat W.]

She is a little young yet for doing alot of distance work but you can teach her not to jump up on you when you run with a simple off command, also keep her on leash to give a gentle correction.

 

For the basic "out" command to get her to eventually work away from you, you can start with her on leash. Set up a single wingless jump standard and walk toward it, don't leave any room between you and the standard so she has to move laterally away from you to go around the obsticle. When she does move away lots of cookies and praise, repeat 3-4 times then go play puppy games

 

Also there are several good agility clubs in the Maryland area if distance or funding is an obsticle then you might try Virtual Agility training. Its on line I'll try to find the link for you here it is: http://www.agilitydynamite.com/

[Ace]

Thanks for the responses. I know Rush is a little young to be doing anything serious with, I am just trying to get the foundation work down. Its my first time actually doing real foundation work, so I am a newbie .

 

I am thinking about joining a club sometime at the end of Summer, when Rush is older, and I can drive/have my own car, money is also another issue. I have been training on my own for about a year now and I still have much to learn

 

Thanks again!

 

Diane

[echoskybound]

I think I have a similar problem. I can't even get my border collie to do simple commands from a distance. When I give him a sit or lay down command, he runs over to me because he thinks that he has to be right at my feet in order to do the command. On one occasion he ran after some poor old sheep when he wasn't supposed to so I yelled at him, and I think he was upset about it, because next time he walked into the pasture I said "Stay" from about 200ft away and he lied down immediately, lol.

 

I'd like to be able to get him to stay no matter how far he is from me, but that's another one of the commands that he thinks he needs to be near me to do.

[pammyd]

yup that one took a wee while

What we did in classes was someone else held the lead and we gave to commands working further and further away

Building up to I can get a sit and a down when I am not in the room!!

not perfect outside but getting better

you can also tie the lead to something. start close and build up moving away- also practice facing different directions cos lots of dogs think they have to sit right infront of you facing you

 

As for a stay

great tip we got in agility is that you dont need a stay command for anything much

down stand or sit should mean do that till I tell you the next thing

 

its funny now in puppy class we win all the staying games cos I just go 'down' and can walk away from him where the rest of the class are going 'down, stay, stay, stay'

 

the less you talk the more your dog listens

[3dogslater]

She likes to jump up on my body while we run.

So stop running. Your flatwork starts at a walk and only progresses to a run gradually. Sounds like you are rushing the training and you need to slow down and go back to the beginning. A really great book for basic skills is "From the Ground Up" by Kim Collins - step by step guide to teaching your dog all the basic skills you'll need to succeed at agility.

 

I think I have a similar problem. I can't even get my border collie to do simple commands from a distance.

You do - you're rushing your training too If she is "running" to get to your side you've made things too hard, too fast. Try doing her sits and downs 1-2 feet away first, gradually increasing distance. Make one thing more difficult for your dog at a time - duration, distance, or difficults. IOW, either make her sit longer, or in a more distracting environment, or further away from you. Just because you can down your dog at 25 feet in your yard doesn't mean you'll be able to do it at 10 feet at the dog park.

[Root Beer]

One thing that can help with distance work - if done gradually - is to use a barrier.

 

You can put a gate or something between you and your dog, and cue a sit, but be right up against the gate at first. Reward the sit.

 

Once the dog is sitting quickly on cue with you right by the gate, take about a half step back - that's it! Do the same - cue the sit and reward it. Once the dog is fluent with you a half step away, take a whole step.

 

Once you are several feet away, you can start the process over without the gate and gradually your dog will learn to sit on cue wherever he or she is, and not come up to you first.

[MrSnappy]

If she is "running" to get to your side you've made things too hard, too fast.

 

Oh I'd like to argue that with you Dana!

 

Piper has been dancing on my feet from the moment I got her at 4 months of age. She lives to perform every command in my face, if possible. If she could do Mad Teeth spins on my dreams at night, she surely would!

 

She can do an outrun and she can lie down and change directions on sheep at hundreds of feet, but she prefers to do pretty well everything else on the tips of my sneakers. Even when we are standing around, she likes to stand with one paw on my foot.

 

It's just who Piper is I think SHE likes to make things difficult for ME.

 

RDM

[3dogslater]

Your problem is that you got one of those defective rescue dogs. Clearly at four months of age you missed the key window to teach the foundation skills she would need. Next time maybe try one of those sport collies...I hear they come with contacts and weaves built in! (I'm amazed you didn't find some way to blame Tweed for this lol)

[kelpiegirl]

Jump chutes, a friend to help, and a toy. Or, like me, have back fusion 2 months before you get your pup/dog, and then your dog learns to move quite well away from you, as you move as fast as a snail on downers.

[MrSnappy]

(I'm amazed you didn't find some way to blame Tweed for this lol)

 

I'm working on it!!

 

RDM

[Diana A]

I use repetition, anticipation, and rewards away from me to help my dogs learn to work away in agility. Here is an example. I go with the dog and put the dog in the tunnel, then throw a toy or a small visible treat so the dog sees it flying away from them as they exit, and they get to run and get it. I repeat that a few times. The dog gets very confident about what I want and starts to anticipate that reward flying away when he exits. So he starts to not want to wait for me to go all the way to the tunnel with him- he starts pulling away from me and going ahead to get in because he wants to get there fast to get the excitement of the chase when he exits. So every time, I start just a little farther away from the tunnel entrance and his draw to get in there gets stronger and stronger. Pretty soon I can be pretty far from the tunnel entrance, start to move towards it, and the dog will leave my side and go into the tunnel as fast as he can. You just have make sure you use very consistent body language when you do this - don't just stand still and send. Standing still is a signal you'll need later to get your dog to collect and come closer to you. Moving forward, giving a forward signal, and a verbal commend for the tunnel, are all cues that it's okay to leave your side and go do the tunnel.

 

Once the dog is getting this, I like to alternate calling the dog to stay close to me and sending the dog so they understand the difference. Otherwise all you get is a dog who wants to run off and do everything on their own before you tell them where to go, which is a nightmare in upper level classes when they get older. So I would have a good treat or toy in my hand, have a line on the pup, and start to move towards the tunnel but not give a command for it. Then, before the dog gets sucked into taking off for the tunnel, I use the pups name and turn away from the tunnel and run the other way and throw the toy or treat that way, away from the tunnel. The line is just to prevent the puppy from taking off for the tunnel before you're ready for the turn, NOT to correct, or else you'll just undo all the work you did with getting distance. Then I alternate. One time I move fast towards the tunnel, and signal to do the tunnel and reward. Then the next time I move slower, keep my hand at my side, use the dog's name, and turn away from the tunnel, and reward either at my side, or in the new direction. It's also a fun game to play when they figure this part out, to have multiple tunnels. You keep them with you and have them not do one tunnel, then the reward is you turn and send them for a different tunnel. So they learn the difference between 'pay attention to me because I'm going to give you information' vs 'yes, go ahead and take the tunnel' or whatever obstacle it is.

 

I do the same thing with jump chutes (for a puppy maybe just running through standards or low jumps), and also weave poles (again, for a puppy I either wouldn't do the weaves or would have the channels open enough that they aren't bending).

 

I also wouldn't worry too much with a four month old puppy. They are just naturally more clingy. If you over do the distance stuff now you may have off course problems later. Also I think flat work is hard for distance work because the whole way I get distance is using obstacle focus. If you're working with no obstacles, there's nothing to use a focus point for the dog to move away from you. There's never a time in agility when you'd want your dog moving away from into empty space with no obstacle to go to. So unless you're sending to an obstacle, the dog is correct to want to stay at your side. Don't undo that, you'll need it later.

[Diana A]

Forgot to add, about the jumping up. Do you use a clicker? I think the pup is jumping up because of not being sure what to do, and you're moving, which is exciting, and there's nothing else to focus on, so the pup jumps on you. Try (1) moving slower, even doing a walk, (2) reward frequently but only when the pup's feet are on the ground, (3) if you use a clicker, click for feet on the ground, then reward, (4) if the pup starts jumping, stop moving, then reward and move again once feet are on the ground.

 

And also as I said in my last post, it's difficult to get any kind of distance from the handler when there's nothing else for the pup to focus on. So when you aren't using obstacle, don't worry about distance so much, just focus on not jumping up or cutting across your path. It's a little bit almost like teaching obedience heeling, except your allowed correct position is a lot larger than the precise position required for heeling and of course you'll be working both sides.

[Ace]

I have a clicker, but I only use it for really hard tricks. I am currently teaching her drop it with the clicker since we have been having some fetching problems. I think I am going to clicker train her to jump, she doesnt exactly understand what I am asking.

 

Thank you so much for the very detailed explanation. I am getting two more tunnels this summer, so after practicing what you explained we will be able to apply it too three tunnel courses.

 

I only have one tunnel right now, so I will have to teach her the basic idea of jump standards before we start, but thanks again!

 

Diane

[Barb Scott]

We spent the morning at an AKC (heavens!) agility trial watching excellent standard. Working away from the handler doesn't seem to be the thing to teach for those courses. The slow dogs Q'd; most of the fast dogs who obviously could work away from their handlers NQ'd.

Barb S

[Ace]

I dont have plans to do AKC as of right now at least. I do NADAC, which is a lot of distance, so in the end its needed. If I do AKC then I will work on it, mostly my goal is to have her watch my body language and stop running into me lol. But all in good time.

 

Diane