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Agility, or Obedience first?


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Bonnie and I started Obedience classes last year but we only got to go to about 6 of them before the Xmas break and we've just started back up again. I haven't found the club all that welcoming (it is the only club in town). Bonnie can sit, heel on lead, and do turns on heel (forgot what they are called) - this is all that is needed to progress to the next class but they will not let her. Why? Because "she's a Border Collie and we find they need more time in beginners". So basically they are punishing her because she belongs to a certain group of dog. I feel that we are both ready to go up a level, Bonnie will get bored soon and that's when problems start. I also have to have her on a check chain (club rules) even though she is fine without one.

 

On our first class I showed them that Bonnie could sit, drop, heel on lead, shake hands, wave her paw, roll over, and stay - even when I walked out of her sight. They were not happy, they told me I had taught her too much and that she was too young. Bonnie was almost 9 months when we started, I believe that if I hadn't spent the hours teaching her that stuff she would have been bored out of her mind and developed behavioural problems. She's a BC, she needs mental stimulation and I thought that's what I had provided.

 

Anyway, I had always planned on starting Bonnie in Agility at about 18months after we'd completed a few obedience levels first. But now I'm thinking I might stop the obedience for now and take her over to the agility class (run by a different group, I have heard good things about). But I have a few questions.

 

Is she too young (she's 13 months)??

Should I complete higher obedience levels with her first?

Will the obedience that she has now be enough for basic agility? She also has almost 100% recall, as well as the commands I listed earlier.

Does anyone think that I am overeacting about the obedience club and I should just stick it out?

 

What would you do?

 

Sorry for the long post...

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I used to always think that a dog needed solid obedience before you should consider agility. Cody did about a year of obedience and was in the top class before I started agility with him. I had the advantage of being able to work him offlead right from the start, and do a lead out with him. However, I always struggled with him preferring to be on my left side and I see a lot of obedience trained dogs having this problem at agility.

 

I started agility with Delta when she was about 7mnths. She had a few formal obedience lessons under her belt and knew how to sit and drop etc but that was about all. I got Charlie at about that time and figured he needed the obedience training more than she did so he was the one I took to obedience each week and both dogs did agility.

 

I think it has worked out so much better for Delta doing it this way. It didn't matter that she didn't have a reliable stay when we started because she quickly worked out that she didn't get to play if she moved. Her recall was fine (especially at that age, not yet a teenager) so I didn't have that problem, although she was so driven to work that she didn't go far from the equipment anyway. We got to build our relationship doing something that she really enjoyed and I haven't experienced any of the problems I did with Cody (preferring left side, not wanting to run a distance away from me to take an obstacle)

 

I took Delta to an obedience lesson the other day for the first time in about 6mnths. By the end of the night we had jumped 3 classes and are now in the top one. She was happy to work for me and did everything I asked, plus she has the reliable stay from agility. Just need to teach her a few commands and we will be laughing.

 

I think I will do the same with any future dogs. Obedience until they are about 6 months then start on puppy agility with them. Obedience can come later, we will stick with the fun stuff to begin with :rolleyes:

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Is she too young (she's 13 months)??

 

I would talk to the people at the place where Agility is offered about this. She is not too young to do foundation work. She is not too young to start training on low equipment. Some places will offer foundation classes greared toward dogs in her age range.

 

Should I complete higher obedience levels with her first?

 

I see no reason to do so, especially given the training situation that you have available.

 

Before putting a dog in Agility, I want my dog to sit on cue, stay until released, down on cue, stay until released, come readily when called, and work comfortably on my right and left. I train everything else in the context of Agility.

 

Will the obedience that she has now be enough for basic agility? She also has almost 100% recall, as well as the commands I listed earlier.

 

I think so. Check with the Agility group to see what they want, though.

 

Does anyone think that I am overeacting about the obedience club and I should just stick it out?

 

I don't. I think your sense about this is right on.

 

What would you do?

 

What would I do? I get as far away from this particular obedience class as possible. Even if my goal were competitive obedience, I would find a different group to work with.

 

The idea of having "taught her too much" strikes me as absurd. I think that you were right to teach her as much as you could, and to provide the mental stimulation that you did.

 

Personally, I would not be part of a club that required choke chains, nor would I remain in a class where my dog were judged for "being a Border Collie" and not on his or her own personal progress, or lack thereof.

 

Even of Agility were not my goal, I would get out of that training situation.

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Yup run away

And if it is agility you are aiming for then obedience isnt really needed

I am a great believer in just teaching tricks - builds the bond grows the brain and gets the dog used to working with you - and used to the idea that anything goes

 

We have a dog in our agility class that the owner is having great difficulty with because no matter where she positions herself her dog always goes to the left of her

lovely dog andgood trainer but they are at a huge disadvantage already

 

It sounds like you know how to train and have got to a good level already - why pay someone money to talk down to your dog??

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Yep - what the others have said.

 

I personally would not persist with that obedience club - you can probably do better on your own.

 

I like dogs to have some basic 'obedience' before they start agility - but not necessarily in the form trial sense. I like to see good focus on the handler, even in distracting situations. I would prefer a dog that has been taught a range of tricks, and enjoys learning with the handler, over a dog that has done some rigid formal obedience, especially jerk and praise style.

 

Definitely talk to the people in the agility group - you may find that some of them have suggestions about a better way of continuing in obedience too, either now or later on.

 

Trust your instincts about what's good for you and your pup.

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I have never done any "formal" obedience with any of my agility dogs, as long as your girl has an excellent recall, knows sit/down, and has a great stay - needed for startlines, I say skip that class and move on to agility. Your girl is at

a great age for foundations training. A couple of things to look at when you go to see the agiltiy club:

 

1) they dont rush onto the equipment, the laying of a good foundation is most important

2) equipment is used at less than regulation height for green dogs

3) how big of a class, more than 8 in a class with one instuctor is a definate no for me

4) what experience in agility do the instructors have, have they trained more than one type/breed of dog?

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It sounds very odd. At our club we progress the dogs at their own pace. We are very aware of the boredom factor and our chief instructor puts dogs through a basic test and if she thinks they are ready, they move up to the next class regardless of breed. I think you deserve a better explanation than she is a BC. In my experience the herding dogs tend progress faster than some other breeds.

 

My BC is 14 months and I stopped obedience with her at about 9 months. I used obedience to get her stays and recalls and outside of obedience I trained her to work left and right and did lots of shadow handling and rear and front cross and circle work on the flat and also worked on building her play drive with tugs and balls.

 

We are now starting to train on low jumps and equipment and just starting the weaves. The obedience instructors tell me that she would make a great obedience dog but with 3 dogs in training and agility my focus I just dont have the time to do everything.

 

My baby ACD (4 months) I am doing obedience for socialisation and getting her used to focussing on me around other dogs and people but I am also training her to work on both sides of me. She works beautifully on the left at class but also works confidently on the right outside of class.

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Thankyou so much everyone for your replies. Bonnie and I will no longer go back to that obedience class. I also began to realise that I actually dread tuesday nights now because of it. Maybe I'll find another class one day and take her back to obedience, but we'll see how that goes. I'm going to call the agility club and organise for Bonnie to start agility. i'll let you all know how it goes!

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