Bagging up

[1sheepdoggal]

I have 5 young ewes from year before lasts lambing, coming 2 yrs old that have been bred and are gonna be lambing for their first time. Ive not ever had ewes that werent older already producing ewes, and am familiar with the way they bag up before lambing. As these 5 are first timers, they are starting to bag up, but not real big like my older ewes. Do they bag up similar to older ewes before lambing, or less? Im keeping an eye on them and this morning have moved them from the pasture into the catch pen under shelter and lined it with deep straw. Not sure of a date, as the ram had been in with them all year last year. But by the looks of their bags, I may have a couple more weeks to go, if they bag up simalar to older ewes. If not, it could be sooner. And, when lambing older ewes, I could pretty much gauge how close they were, by the posistion of the teats. Straight down, a bit more time. pointing straight out sideways, soon. Is that a pretty good asumption to use? Its worked so far for me, but then that could just be luck. These lambs teats are pointing out to the sides now, but bags are smaller than what Im use to seeing from thier moms. Their bags all look pretty uniform in size, as to all being within the same/close time frame, but not knowing exactly when they were bred, Im trying to get a better idea on time frame based soley on what I can physically see.

[Shoofly]

First timers don't bag up as much in advance as experienced ewes, at least in my hair sheep.

 

ETA: It occurs to me that could be read 2 different ways. What i mean is, their bags don't get as big as the experienced ewes' bags do until after they've lambed.

[Patty Abel]

I had one first timer last year, Tunis and a big girl...she bagged up three weeks before she delivered. So I guess there are lots of variables. I'd be watching her out the windows with binoculars, sure she would start laboring at any minute. Of course it happened over night on the coldest night in February.

[juliepoudrier]

It's been my experience that physical signs short of actual labor are not real accurate predictors of lambing date, especially for sheep you don't know well WRT lambing (my first year lambing, with ewes bought pregnant and no known breeding date, intuition worked as well as anything else). For every sheep that follows "the book" there will be others that don't. You just get to wait for surprises!

 

J.

[1sheepdoggal]

No need for binoc's they are up close next to the house. So would any of ya think that the posistion of the teats has any bearing on closeness of lambing? The bags are about 1/2 of what the older ewes look like. Yes Robin, thanks, I understood what you ment that they'd bag up more after the babes are on the ground. These gals are hair sheep. Maybe soon then. Im glad I brought them up today.

[Shoofly]

No need for binoc's they are up close next to the house. So would any of ya think that the posistion of the teats has any bearing on closeness of lambing? The bags are about 1/2 of what the older ewes look like. Yes Robin, thanks, I understood what you ment that they'd bag up more after the babes are on the ground. These gals are hair sheep. Maybe soon then. Im glad I brought them up today.

 

I've not paid any attention to position of the teats, though i guess that would be an indicator of how full a bag is. And since milk producton doesn't seem to kick in as heavy on first timers until after lambing, my guess would be no. 1/2 sounds about right to me. It always seems like it takes forever for mine to actually drop lambs after they've bagged up too.

[1sheepdoggal]

Oh goodie. Its hide and watch time. Just love these gals that like to lamb between 3 and 5 am! Does their labor seem to last longer than older ewes, and is it more subtle or pretty obvious?

[juliepoudrier]

Darci,

Are you overanalyzing again? There has been some discussion on one of the sheep lists I'm on that time of feeding (if you're feeding) can have an impact on time of lambing, the idea being to feed so that lambs are dropped during the day and not at night. Last year all of my karakuls had their lambs very early in the morning and I didn't see a single one go into labor or give birth. The year before, I caught only one of my older tunis ewes in the act of having her second (of a set of twins). This lamb had a leg turned back, but by the time I went to get my supplies so I could help, she had already managed to have it. That's what I love about the experienced old ladies....

 

I pretty much just leave them alone and let them do their thing. I check one last time before going to bed at night, will check in the night if I *happen* to wake up and think someone's imminent, and then again first thing in the morning (pretty early riser). And still I missed them all.

 

J.

[1sheepdoggal]

Ha! You make me laugh! Yes, that would be me, over analyzing again. Yes, I am feeding supliments in the evening. Hay all day. I lost a set of pretty little lambs last year, and almost the mom, also a first timer, from thinking she could handle it alone, and went on to work for the day. Still havent been able to get over that loss of life and blame myself for not being there. So, when lambing seems immenent, I like to be close and awake. Thats the beauty of hobby farming for me, ya dont have so many to worry about, so if your willing to put in the hours, you can . If I had 400 head, Id be a zombie!

[stockdogranch]

Great thread! I have some first timers this year, too, for the first time in a while. I just noticed last week that they are starting to bag up, but, yes, their bags are "teacups" compared to the humongous ones the older girls have. I, too, have no idea of time frame, as I bought a dorper ram last spring when he was just weaned (and he was weaned pretty early so I could get him when the owner and I were both at a trial halfway between the two of us--I'm in CA and she's in ID). Anyway, Little Dude has been happily out with everyone since April, and I'm just now noticing that I am going to have some lambs sometime maybe soon. In fact, this afternoon I am going to go out and do a real check--the hair sheep are easy to spot a bag, but some of the wool sheep will require a much closer inspection. I figure everyone will wait to lamb till mid February when I am going to be gone for 5 days setting sheep at Zamora.

 

A

 

ETA: I never noticed teat position in sheep, but cows are really easy to tell when they are within 24 hours by the looks of the teats!

[Shoofly]

If I had 400 head, Id be a zombie!

 

 

If you had 400 head, you'd have LOTS of new friends!

[1sheepdoggal]

You guys crack me up!

[kelpiegirl]

One thing I seem to remember, as they got very close to lambing, the teats turn a bit out from the body. I remember this in horses mainly- basically it signifies a very full bag- same thing with goats too.

[1sheepdoggal]

Thats where I think I learned about the teats from, in horses. Wish the sheep had that little waxy build up like horses do, so when it fell off and they started dripping, you'd know you'll have babies in about 24 to 48 hours. I just applyed it to sheep as well,, ( the posistion of the teats) and its seems to help to some degree. For me its a of type of indicator when they start pointing out to the side, that the bag is as full as its gonna get till they accually lamb and then the time is soon there after.

[bcnewe2]

I notice with the hairs they seem to get a tail bump a few days ahead. Like the lamb has dropped down into position so that the base of the tail (the part actually on the body) gets a bump becuse the lamb isn't pressing so high up in the hips. But as soon as I say that one of them will break the norm and look different.

Sometimes I can't even see the bags on my new lambers. I tend to like it that way cause they're the ones that seem to keep a nice tight bag for several breeding years. I'm not fond of those humongous bag ladies. I feel so sorry for them after they drop their lambs they get raw from either their leggs rubbing or worse yet when it's big enough that when they pee they get raw from it hitting the bag.

 

I've never noticed the teat position. I'll be looking.

 

Darci, how do you like having your ram in all the time and not knowing due dates? I've been doing that for almost 2 years now, I don't have good ram fencing down here. I'm not sure I like all the surprises. Plus it's such a spread out lamb crop, I can't/don't even wean anymore. How do you wean 1 or 2 lambs at a time? I sure am suprised at how quickly my hair ladies breed back. I have one momma who seems to be dropping lambs about every 9 or so months. I'm wondering how long she can go on like that. She's in great shape.

 

Good luck and enjoy.

 

Kristen

[1sheepdoggal]

Hey Kristen, This is the first time I have ever owned my own ram. I use to get one on loan from a friend of mine. So far he has been wonderful, and never tests the fences and is a joy to be around. He will be 2 this spring, so I may have some thing to complain about in another year or so, but I kinda doubt it. I really tried hard to keep him respectful, yet managable, and I think he'll stay pretty even in his temperment. He was out of one of my older ewes. As far as him being in with the ewes all the time, I havent had to worry about lambing more than once a year yet. I sold off my old ewes late last summer, as they were getting upwards of 10 to 13 yrs old and with the drough we were in, couldnt see hanging on to them and feeding them if it were possible they werent going to produce this year. So only kept some of my ewe my lambs from spring of 2006 and wethers. I have a friend out in Neb that runs over 400 head, and he puts his rams in twice a yr and has a crop early spring and fall. His ewes seem to do just fine. But he doesnt leave the rams in. I have just completed, except for the top of the lean to, a new enclosure for him and will be seperating him from the ewes soon. It was never my intention to keep him in with the ewes constantly, just didnt have an adequate place for him till now. I know now, that Im not enjoying the guess work thats going into my lambing this year though. I didnt even put his marker on him, so I have a few, that havent even bagged up yet, and assume they've been bred, but cant tell as yet. Much less do I know if/when they'll be due. I'd definitly like things to go smoother and more on schedual. I dont like guess work. I never have seperated ewes and lambs for weaning, Ive always found that they do that on thier own naturaly, and eventually, so I really couldnt say about the weaning.

[Mark Billadeau]

I've never paid attention to teat position. What I do is look at the whole udder. It will go from simply being big to looking extremely tight. With hair sheep, it's also really easy to see if the lambs have dropped into position just from looking at them. We have new wool sheep this year with no definite breeding date (were in with the ram year round before we bought them). I have no idea about them because I'm not used to having all that wool in the way to see anything! Honestly though, with first timers you can easily be surprised. A friend of mine had a katahdin ewe lamb that lambed without ever even looking pregnant. Surprised everyone. Mom and lamb were just fine.

Renee

[Pipedream Farm]

Woops, I forgot to logoff my other persona (used for ABCA H&G Committe stuff) when finished last night.

 

Mark

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Here are the criterias I use when I want to know when my ewes will lamb

 

1. The flank will drop...meaning the flank is not so big and the lamb has moved into postion so you can see the waist/flank kinda hollow. I also feel the teat and it usually is full, soft and sometimes i can get a drop of milk out. They also get restless, pawing and so forth

 

2. Get dressed up in a nice dress to go to some fancy dinner or event with your non-sheep loving spouse. Check the ewe in the barn before you go while the spouse warms up the car. The ewe will go into labor then (guaranteed!!)

 

 

Diane

[bcnewe2]

adding tp Dianes list

 

3. Go out of town and leave your DH (not the sheep kinda guy) and 16 year old son in charge...happens every time!

 

4. Pick the rainiest/iciest, coldest, nastiest evening and there you go, it's usually 2 ewes then.

 

Next time when I think they're over due I'll try the nice dress, but I think I'm going to have to borrow that dress, mine are all "play clothes" now that we have sheep.

 

Kristen

Waiting to lamb cause it's just nasty cold out there and the water has frozen solid for the first time of the year!

[Bill Fosher]

Nasty cold. Tee hee. Snicker. In Arkansas. Snort. Chortle.

 

I don't know where you are in in Arkansas, but the predicted overnight low for Little Rock tonight -- 26 degrees -- was warmer than our high today -- 18 F. And it looks like upper 60s by Monday. Sounds like the tail end of spring lambing around here. But at least the sun is nice and strong here, so it didn't feel too bad today as long as you stayed out of the wind.

 

Still waiting for the actual cold here. Lowest temp so far this winter was -5 F. Usually January brings us at least -10. Sometime remind me to tell you about the day when we had a high temp of 5 above and 35 lambs less than 24 hours old on the ground in an open barn. Or the day when it snowed three to five inches on our pasture lambing groups. May 18, 2002, it was. Fifteen lambs born that day or the night before. To ewe lambs.

 

Now, you want to talk about nasty cold, try the northern plains. -30 real temps and howling winds with nothing to block them from them all the way clear through to the North freakin' Pole. Or the coast of Maine where the sea spray freezes onto everything it touches.

 

And frozen solid means that there's no water -- only ice. Your water might have frozen over, but I'm sure it didn't freeze solid.

 

Reminds me of the year I talked with a shepherd friend of mine in Virginia and she was complaining because it was February and the grass hadn't started to grow yet. We're lucky to see grass growth in late April. Don't get me wrong. I would much rather have our temperatures than yours. When it's 5 or even 15 below, I can get and stay comfortable. When it's 95 and humid, I can't. If only having to deal with one or two days like that a year means that I get to know what frozen solid means, I'll take it.

[bcnewe2]

Yeah Bill I'm chortling right along with you.

When I first got here I thought these were just whinnie babies down here. Now I'm right with them.

I really worried about only having a lean-to instead of a barn, I like to lamb in Jan and Feb like I did in St. Louis. After the first winter I decided a barn wasn't needed even lambing in the middle of winter or in your words, the beginning of spring!

I did put my coveralls on to ride the 4wheeler around looking for a short in the fence today, there were wind chills while riding does that count?

 

This is the first night I've used my wood burning stove cause it would heat us right out the house!

 

And yes you are right, it not frozen solid but it didn't melt today so that meant I had to water....WAH....

and yes I just watched the weather, it's supposed to get into the upper 50's tomorrow. No woodstove tomorrow!

But, this summer when it's hitting 105 for more than a week, I'll really be complaining....you can chortle with me then!

 

Oh and I do remember that winter in 2002, I was in St. Louis and we had ice over ice over ice with snow about 7 inches on top. It stayed on the ground till I finished lambing (in the barn) It was then I learned about how good hand warmers keep your boots nice and toasty in between lamb checks.

 

I don't even think they sell hand warmers down here! Bet you don't have Scorpions though!

 

WAH

 

Kristen