Miztiki Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Boy can't be my SD and Fynne doesn't have the temperament for it. I *need* a dog that is healthy, able to pull me (all 95 lbs of me) in a wheelchair at some point, stable temperament, and biddable. I can't know the future, but the way things are looking, I will probably only need the dog to help me in public on occasion. Most of the help would be here at home. I don't plan to be stuck in a wheelchair permanently within 10 years! That said, it could happen, so the dog needs to be capable of public work. There are a million possibilities. Puppy, dog, breeder, rescue, BC mix, traditional SD breed... I love the Border Collie brain. Because I expect most of the dog's work to be here at home, I would like it very much if I had a dog that I would like on a personal level. Sure, I could love most any dog, but I'm passionate about BC's and their wonderful brains. I would *like* to find a large, young adult, BC mix that possesses the BC brain with a stable temperament and healthy body. Realistically, what are the chances of that? First of all, the dog would have to be healthy. I can't afford blood tests and x-rays of spine, hips, and elbows on multiple prospects. If I found a dog that seemed to fit the bill, what are the chances that it would not qualify medically? Also, the dog would have to have a stable temperament. By nature it can't be fearful, reactive, or aggressive. I can tweak a dog but its basic temperament has to be sound. It would have to be anxious to learn and eager to please. So tell me, what are the chances that I can find a BC mix like I just described? Those of you with extensive experience with rescues will be most helpful. Does anyone know the minimum size a dog would have to be to pull a person my size? If the chances of me finding a BC mix (or even a purebred BC, but I'm not holding my breath) that meets the above criteria is very unlikely then I will have no choice but to consider another breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
books Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Have you been in contact with any groups that train service dogs? They should be able to give you an idea about what size dog you need. That would be a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miztiki Posted May 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 I haven't heard from you in forever! How have you been? I hope life is treating you well! Nope, not yet, but I will be asking the docs at TAMU about that when we go. I suppose I could ask a few SD people and see what they have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 I think when your time comes you will be able to find a suitable border lab mix. Dal has the temperment to make a good service dog So, even a pure bred may be in your future. He's all ready at 11 months pushing 43lbs 22 inches high. He's small too compared to some male black and whites I've seen. I think you will find what you need. I do think it will be more brains than brawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy525 Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Anxiously awaiting the 9th, now for another reason. Let us know what they say. Do you have any schools for the blind or handicapped in your area? They might have some ideas, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingRiver Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 A BC/Lab mix seems an appropriate size, temperment. I would look into rescue because then you would already know the temperment, size, health. I thought you were just in a wheelchair because you broke your leg... that seems like a very limited time to 'need' a service dog. Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrie Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Ditto Tammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy525 Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Scout is BC/lab mix, but he is only 48-52 lbs, and I don't think he would be able to pull a wheelchair for any distance. He has a semi-slight build, he is not the powerhouse of muscle a lab is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Myself I would rather a golden/BC mix. REALLY pretty dogs, great size, and a bit calmer then lab/BC. There seem to be quite a few of them actually, kind of sad that way. But really a PB BC could be fine too. We all know that you could train it and help it to become a great, calm, SD. I vote for taking a BC/golden mix if you see one! Good luck to you and your pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 An acquaintance has a golden retriever/yellow lab mix that was trained first as a SAR dog and then (long story) was retrained as a service dog. The owner has MS and has bouts where he is wheelchair-ridden. Other times he is more mobile, uses a walker, but needs Peach to do simple household tasks (fetching the phone, opening the fridge, closing doors, etc.). Peach is exactly that, a peach of a dog. Strong and resilient, loving and obedient. This really was a great breed mix. She weighs about 85-90 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Generally you don't want the dog, no matter how sound or what size, to pull a chair for long distances - the angles put some pretty nasty torque on the skeleton as I understand it. The book "Lend me an Ear" has some good info on selecting a working dog, as does Suzanne Clothier's site I think - she does a lot on performance/working animals I believe. Talking to program people might be your best bet, as would joining a good owner training SD list. I think I've mentioned OCADogs before and I will again as I know they have really been helpful to people looking for a dog to owner train as a SD. The group's files are also a great source of info on not just training, but choosing a dog too. www.circletail.org is the site for a group in Ohio that I have worked with - they use rescue or donated dogs for their program and have been very open to questions when I was working with them (one of my foster dogs was in the SD program for a while). HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miztiki Posted May 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Apparently a dog should weigh 55 lbs or better if planning to pull a child or small woman. It's something I'll discuss when I go to TAMU though. RaisingRiver, I have a bone disease and have been on disability for years now. I could use help now but I will *need* help as time goes by. Selecting the right dog is so incredibly important and I'm sure it's going to take me a long time to find the right one, then even more time to train it. Keep your eyes open for me. If you see a large, apparently healthy, male BC mix then please let me know. I'm sure it will be at least a couple months before I'm prepared to get another dog, but knowing what's out there now will help me decide how I will ultimately choose one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Miz, I think your best resource for such a dog would be a well-established, organized rescue group. They would work with you to find the dog that meets your exact needs. You might start by contacting the folks at BC Rescue of Texas. By the way, if the only reason for needing a larger dog is to pull a wheelchair, why not consider a motorized wheelchair, a golf cart for running around outside, or one of those motorized scooters designed for folks with mobility issues. That way you wouldn't need a larger dog and then you could choose any dog and train it to do all the other stuff you'll need help with. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy525 Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 That's a good thought, Julie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miztiki Posted May 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Right now I'm open to any and all possibilities. Choosing a dog for service work is alot different than choosing a dog as a companion. There are so many things to consider and so many angles - and it gives my mind something to think about besides Boyden. I suppose I could get a dog that won't pull me, and maybe in a couple/few years get a dog that can. If I went that route then I would rather get a BC pup and raise it my way. I'm disappointed in Fynne. I had hoped that I could teach her to help here at home, but so far it's not happening. She's FINALLY going after balls and bringing them back to me about 70% of the time. She'll only get a ball when it's thrown though. I need a dog who can go get an object and put it where I want. So many SD tasks are based on that sort of thing. I could mow if she would pick up sticks and small branches for me. As it is, I have to wait for hubby to do it, and the grass can get pretty darn tall by the time that happens. If I got a BC pup, do you think it would be satisfied with doing a million little things for me in the house and yard? Picking up sticks, dragging the hose for me, fetching the trowel or rake, digging holes, helping with laundry, opening the drawer and giving me the toothpaste, flushing the toilet and shutting the lid, turning the lights on and off, herding chickens and gathering eggs, putting stuff in the compost pile and maybe even "stirring" it up, learning the names of as many things as possible...? On the other hand, I would really like to take long "walks". I had visions in my head of Boy pulling me in some sort of lightweight contraption and taking "walks" on the trails in the woods, up and down dirt roads in the country, up and down sidewalks in all the little country towns, maybe even walks on the beach. Here I go crying again. Boy isn't just my buddy, but he was my hope for more freedom and a better quality of life. He carried lots of things for me in his backpack when I camped on the way to NC and back. I didn't know his back was messed up. I'm just rambling now. It's just not fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hey Miz, I am sorry to hear of all that is going on with you and Boy. My son wants a service dog, he uses a powerchair and doesn't stand or walk. His friend is getting an SD this summer. We went to a demo of the group that does the training, Summit Assistance Dogs in Anacortes Washington, and it was pretty cool. They use a rescue dog sometimes, they have a person taht checks shelters for them locally, right now they have a litter of collie/lab pups. Goldens and Labs are used too. We watched a dog pick up a credit card off a hardwood floor. Pretty tricky. I think that a power vehicle is one answer, although transporting it is a different issues. Did you want to walk at home/neighborhood, or go places for walks? I don'tknow about Fynne, but my young BC Luke took a week or so to get the concept(with clicker and food) of picking up a pencil William had dropped. My other BC took about 5 minutes years ago. Both of them can pick up the credit card now but it takes several tries. I almost lost my patience with Luke and the picking up of the pencil but I kept at it and he does get it finally. How are you training Fynne? Caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy525 Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Just offering support, Miz, I know it would be extra challenging to find a service dog when you don't know your exact future needs. But, I know it is out there for you, I just know it. The transportation issues, there just has to be a way. We went to a Kidescape program on Sunday. The guy was very motivational and showed some really good and basic moves for getting away from a predator, but I digress (again). Anyway, what he said that applies to your situation, and which I have already seen you do many times, is to ask "How" questions. He said that motivates your brain, and if you ask, your brain will answer. Why and what questions may just work your heart and soul, but how works your brain. Caroline, it sounds like you are really good resource, so I am glad you are here, as I can offer nothing but prayers and emotional support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Miz, if it helps - my girl thinks fetching balls and frisbees is boring but she's a fabulous retriever of things I ask for. There's a big difference between a play retrieve and a 'working' retrieve. I shaped a pick up of an object first, then moved it further and further away from me, until Maggie was fluent w/ that one object, then moved on to another one. The clicker really helps here btw since you can catch tiny little movements. Maggie now loves helping w/ the laundry (pulling towels, etc. out w/o getting drool on them at all), picking up dropped pens and pencils under my desk, fetching her leash at the park or agility class, and a multitude of other 'fetch' tricks, all taught from the original - go pick up that toy - behavior. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Myself I would rather a golden/BC mix.An excellent choice; I would agree. I would also suggest the option of looking at a larger variant of Border Collies. I have seen smooth-coated BC's that go up to 60-65 pounds; and (as noted in another thread), BC's have on occasion been used as sled dogs in northern climates, so they should have the ability to pull a wheelchair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfterThought Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by BustopherJones:BC's have on occasion been used as sled dogs in northern climates, so they should have the ability to pull a wheelchair. That would be me. I have a Mal/husky as well and last winter, I trained my BC to pull a sled. She only weighs 30 some pounds but then again, we only do recreational sledding (not long distance). To be honest, my BC was better than my husky at sledding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Nichols Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I found a couple of web pages that might be helpful. It looks like there are some places that offer classes in training service dogs. http://www.iaadp.org/ http://home1.gte.net/vze6ygo6/index2.html http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/service_dogs.html http://www.shoreservicedogs.com/ http://www.fergus.fogg.net/leonberger_proscons.htm Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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