New to board with lots of questions!

[OffTopic]

Hi all. This is going to be lengthy, but hopefully you'll bear with me because I need some guidance.

 

Backstory: We recently had to make the heartbreaking decision to euthanize our 12 year old BC, Scudder. He had an agressive form of cancer that had spread to his lungs and brain. Scudder had been my father's dog, and we took him 5 years ago when my father passed away. This was my father's only experience with a BC and like many others, he didn't know what he was getting. So Scudder was very much loved, but poorly trained. He was a very sensitive dog and had many neurotic traits. We did the best we could with him and were actually able to relieve his thunder phobia, but that's about all we managed. We simply loved him and let him play soccer and herd/play with his kitty. We miss him greatly. He tried very hard to please, just didn't know how.

 

So, after much discussion, we decided to get a rescue BC and found a real sweetheart through the East Tennesee group. He's around a year old, is ok with cats and not aggressive....although he has let our Keeshond, Max, know he's not going to be a pushover. He was a stray and the nice lady who's door he landed on agreed to keep him for the foster group until they placed him. Unfortunately she didn't keep him fenced, so he's been accustomed to coming and going as he pleases. I also found out when I got there that he had run away from her house for 2 days when her husband cranked up his lawnmower. So he's sensitive to noise.

 

I picked him up last Tuesday. The drive home (6 hours) was less than pleasant, because the poor thing was terrified of the traffic noise. Added bonus? Carsick.

But he's a beautiful boy, highly intelligent and just the sweetest, most affectionate thing you'd ever hope to meet. And I want him to be happy, well adjusted and well trained.

 

I've trained dogs before, but I know BCs can have different "issues" that need to be treated differently from other breeds. We have done a great deal of research, but what I would love to have is a resource (like this place!) for specific problems as they arise.

 

Like, say, this one.

Saturday, Finn discovered a flaw in our fence and pawed at it until he could get his head through. He was working on getting the rest of him through but luckily I'm paranoid enough to say outside with him until he's adjusted to his new home. So I caught him and carried him back into the house and patched the fence. When I let him back out, he went straight to the (former) hole. When he discovered his escape hatch was gone, he started a perimeter search for a new one.

I was going to give him a few more days of adjustment (it's been less than a week!) before starting obedience training, but that incident led me to believe I couldn't start soon enough! And my thinking was that getting a solid recall was the most important thing to start with, given his desire to roam.

The good news? He is HIGHLY treat motivated. By Saturday night I was getting 100% recall from him. He's still giving me 100% recall in the backyard, even when he's in the middle of "chatting" with the BC next door or barking at the squirrels. But he's still looking for an escape hatch and goes back to the "hole" first thing when he's let out.

Now for the advice part.

I'm letting him get halfway through his perimeter search and then recalling him. My thinking is that I want to break his concentration and reinforce that THIS is the good place. I'm doing at least 5 recalls per session before taking him back inside. We go outside maybe 10 times per day. I'm using a BilJac venison jerky....stinky stuff....and giving him tiny bits every other recall. The other times I rub my fingers on the jerky and let him sniff/lick my fingers. High praise each time.

My (first of many) questions are......am I doing too many sessions? Not enough? Should I treat him every time? Should I not let him pace the perimeter at all before calling him back? Am I being way to paranoid? Can I consider this a strong recall, or have I just been lucky so far? Should I be doing this on a lead, even though I'm getting good results off leash in the yard? And if the answer to that one is yes, then I'm going to be asking how to leash train....'cause he does a nice alligator death spiral as soon as you hook him up.

 

Any advice is much appreciated. And I'll be pestering you all with other issues soon, I'm sure.

 

Heeere's Finn!

For reference? A year old or less. Not leash trained at all. Not terribly interested in toys so far. Highly food motivated. Has been working the "poor, pitiful puppy...please don't make me" angle long enough to be really good at it. Completely housebroken without our having to do a thing. Will "sit" on command, but talks back ("Finn, sit" "woo, woo, woo").

[Patty Abel]

I am afraid for jumpers and diggers when they are new to the place. You are so smart to not let him out of your site while he's in the yard. I have kept dogs on lead even in the yard and house while they aclimate to the new surroundings. When I think a dog may be a jumper I watch them at the fence and verbally redirect attention when I see that back and forth prance, nose in the air. " ACCKKK, don't even THINK about it". Once they know they can get out, the retraining is MUCH more difficult.

My first BC(mix) was a jumper, finally I just raised my fence up with green posts and garden fence. Then Red Dog was a fence shover and I drove stakes in the ground to anchor the fence every 5 feet and planted vegetation. That yard was a doggy fortress by the time we moved out.

Make sure your contact info is inked on his collar in case he does make a break for it.

 

I'm kind of stubborn with a dog when leash training...don't endanger your dog by any means. But here's what I do...attach the leash to a secure collar, use two collars and leashes for safety if you feel you need to, and just walk. Even in your own yard for starters. It helps if you walk more than one dog. My last prima dona dog was two years old and never walked on lead. She picked it up by the end of a two miler with five other dogs...

You will get lots of good advice on these boards. And I don't think you can start classes too early!!!! Your dog is a cutie, but he will try every trick in the book to rule you! BTW, how did you ease your dad's dog's thunder phobia? That is an amazing feat!

Welcome aboard.

[IronHorse]

Sounds like you have a very solid approach and I would continue what your doing for a few weeks to a month and then evaluate your results.

Personally seeing how your with him the entire time I would allow him abit of pace time up until the point where he stops and starts studying on a particular location as a potential break out, I think that is the point I would want to refocus his attention towards me,making me more important then breaking out.

But there are Far Far better trainers that are here that I am sure will give you excellent advice.

I would reccomend giving more attention to working him on a lead also.

 

Welcome to the boards

I am curious how you dealt with Scudder's thunder phobia too?

[OffTopic]

Thanks for the welcome. Hope I don't wear it out!

 

use two collars and leashes for safety if you feel you need to

Oh, I'm glad you said that. It had occured to me to do just that, but thought it might be silly. I'll certainly feel safer with that set-up the first time we take him out of the fenced area. I did get him to do a short walk through the yard this afternoon by holding my hand in front of his nose....with the stinky treat in my fingers. Did I mention this dog is very treat motivated?

 

BTW, how did you ease your dad's dog's thunder phobia?

Thunder caused Scudder to look like he was having seizures, he shook so much. He would also pace and whine. So I would command him onto the couch, throw a blanket over him, and sit beside him and just talk in a cheerful tone of voice. The blanket warmed him enough to help stop the shivering. Since his physical reaction to the storms stopped, his mental reaction got better. After a few times doing that with him, he realized that the couch was his "safe" spot during storms and he'd jump up on his own and curl into a tight ball and go to sleep.

[WyoBC]

Welcome to the boards. It sounds like your doing a pretty good job with him so far. It's always a good idea to do obedience training. I'm actually in a class now, and I've had him almost a year. A good recall is very important, and one of the most useful commands you can have.

 

I would give him time to get used to his new home. It took Black Jack almost three weeks to get comfortable enough to go off his leash. But don't let him slide on stuff because "he's still getting used to his home" either. With time and fair corrections comes trust, with trust comes loyalty

[OffTopic]

Thanks, all. Glad to know I'm on the right track. I know bad training can be worse than no training.

 

Ok. Another question.

Let's say we get Finn trained on the lead in the next few days. Considering his wanderlust, should we take him for a walk around the neighborhood? Or would that just reinforce his "grass is greener on the other side" mindset? Would waiting a few weeks be a better idea until he's decided our house is home?

 

I know I sound like I've never owned a dog before, but I've never done a rescue before and something tells me it's different than a new puppy experience. Scudder was 7 when we took him, so all puppy traits were gone. This one is young enough to still have a lot of puppy in him, but old enough to have habits. Some good, some bad.

[kelpiegirl]

Hi there

First, thank you. This dog now has the door to a wonderful life opened up. Perhaps he should be named either James, or George?

I would personally wait a couple of weeks before I took him off the property, just to reaffirm that home is home- since he is so bound and determined to get out there. Work on him bonding to you for now, and then do little tiny excursions outside the fence- and always leave from the house- if your back yard is fenced, that way, they do not correlate leaving with going past the fence, rather, they know that the house is the threshold for leaving. Just keep up the watching- make sure he is microchipped if he isn't, and he has tags etc.

 

 

Thanks, all. Glad to know I'm on the right track. I know bad training can be worse than no training.

 

Ok. Another question.

Let's say we get Finn trained on the lead in the next few days. Considering his wanderlust, should we take him for a walk around the neighborhood? Or would that just reinforce his "grass is greener on the other side" mindset? Would waiting a few weeks be a better idea until he's decided our house is home?

 

I know I sound like I've never owned a dog before, but I've never done a rescue before and something tells me it's different than a new puppy experience. Scudder was 7 when we took him, so all puppy traits were gone. This one is young enough to still have a lot of puppy in him, but old enough to have habits. Some good, some bad.

[Maralynn]

I would just stay at home for a few more days. Let him get used to you and home. Since he is so food motivated I'd get a treat pouch a wear it around and reward him often for focusing on you and following simple commands. You can mix some of his daily kibble in with some of your "stinky treats" to increase the "treats" he's getting each day.

 

Before I took him out anywhere, I'd want him to know that I was a very good person to be with and focusing on, and that your place is a very good place to be!

[Pat W.]

To get him acclimated to a leash I would attach a thin line to his collar that he can drag at all times in and out of the house. Give him time to figure out that he is not going to suffer for having it on. You could attach it to the second collar and in the am put it on with lots of treats and praise, take it off after about an hour then replace with lots of treats again a little later. It will help associate good things with a collar and leash. Rescues can take time to settle in depending on their background anywhere from a few days to a month or so before they are really comfortable with their surroundings and new routines

[OffTopic]

and always leave from the house- if your back yard is fenced, that way, they do not correlate leaving with going past the fence, rather, they know that the house is the threshold for leaving

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

 

Maralynn, I have my jeans pocket full of stinky treats. But I like the pouch idea. Focuses his attention more toward my face. Thanks.

 

I would attach a thin line to his collar that he can drag at all times in and out of the house

Plus, gives the cat something to play with!

Did I mention I have a cat that loves to play with dogs? Gonzo and Scudder had great times together rolling around on the floor. Scudder would bonk Gonzo with his head and Gonzo would do amazing ninja kitty stunt rolls.....

Finn is starting to realize this isn't cat he can just ignore. They were playing a little this morning.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My favorite treat pouches are the hardware aprons you can find at Lowe's or Home Depot (I like Lowe's better, the fabric is softer). You can also carry toys in the big pockets when you reach that stage.

 

What you want to do is convince your new dog that you are the Coolest Thing in the World. One big way to convince a rescue of this, is to figure out a reasonable schedule and follow it to the letter for a little while. Also, don't let the dog wander the house freely - but offer neat things to do right where you are, like marrow bones, kongs with stuff frozen in it or treat balls (remember to count all the treats in the dog's intake for the day so you don't accidentally fatten him up! ).

 

I'd give him his entire dinner, just about, as training treats through the day. Do the recall thing when you are in the house together, at random times - your goal there is to be able to call him off something yummy, to get something even yummier! At "meal times" (remember your schedule), give him something token in his bowl - some steamed or canned veggies and a few kibbles, maybe - just so you set and maintain your schedule.

 

I'd walk him outside on leash, even, until he understands your routine and is enjoying it. You'll be able to tell when he does the happy dance for things like going out to potty, even - because it's just something he can do with you!

 

Good luck!

[Root Beer]

My favorite treat pouches are the hardware aprons you can find at Lowe's or Home Depot (I like Lowe's better, the fabric is softer). You can also carry toys in the big pockets when you reach that stage.

 

Yes! I love those, too! All of my dogs started their training classes with the Home Depot apron as a treat pouch! That thing holds everything I ever need for my beginning dogs!

[OffTopic]

Update and new questions (you didn't think you were done with me, did you? )

 

Finn seems to be losing interest in escaping, although he does still check the perimeter. But now it's more just looking at the neighboring yards rather than checking for a way out. So I'm encouraged. I'm certainly not going to trust him, yet, but it's starting to look like this won't be a problem forever. So, yay!

I'm still getting good recalls and we've started working on "sit/stay". He's doing better on the lead as long as I dangle a treat in front of his nose. I'm going to get a light weight lead this weekend and let him wear it around the house and work inside with it, too.

 

The new issue and question?

Last night we were playing tug of war. He will allow me to reach for the toy with no problem other than an occasional puppy play growl. I can tell the difference between the play growl and a real one, so the play growl doesn't bother me. What did bother me is that at one point he was on the couch with the toy in his mouth....I reached for the toy, no problem....gave it back to him and then I scratched my finger on the couch fabric (right by his foot) to get his attention and got a real growl. Very low and slight lip curl. I didn't move my hand, said "no" and sat there for a second. Then I reached for the toy and took it from his mouth with no problem, not even a play growl. I put the toy on the floor. Then I scratched my finger on the couch by his foot again and got the real growl and slight nose wrinkle/lip curl.

I should mention that I'm not afraid of getting bitten. Yeah, it hurts, and I'd rather it not happen, but it's not something that makes me panic as long as it's not a big dog or pit bull type. So I can sit calmly and not give the dog a fear reaction to a growl.

I told him "no" and kept my hand where it was for a minute. Then I got up and walked away from him.

A while later I commanded him on the couch and scratched the fabric like crazy. Picked up each of his paws and played with them. Tickled his pads with my finger. Stuck my fingers in his mouth and played with his teeth. He had no problem with any of that.

So what on earth was that earlier growl about? Think he's just testing his pecking order? Or a possible fear reaction and he didn't make the connection that the finger was attached to me? I just realized as I was typing this that the first 2 times I had my hand below the couch with only the finger sticking up......wonder if that really might be it?

He's started mouthing me a lot when I try to play with him, and I've been saying "no bite" and sticking a toy in his mouth. Should I also walk away and end the play session when that happens?

I really want to nip any aggressive tendencies in the bud before they have a chance to bloom.

 

He does seem to be a quick learner and he's just the cuddliest little dog I've ever had. The growl really surprised me.