training questions! please help!

[Tip]

Hi all! My little Kamali turned 5 months old yesterday. She is growing up fast! So far she has turned out to be quite the frisbee dog! Just like I hoped she would!!

 

Anyhow, I have a few training questions. Firstly, she was very gentle as a pup. My previous BC was very skittish, so I've always treated her very gently. Well, in the last month she has become progressively super rambunctious! My friends often compare her to a lab, if that says anything. Basically she is super licky, pully, and jumps alot. I NEVER pet her when she jumps on me. From the beginning, (I've had her since 8 wks) when she's jumped up I tell her "no". I don't understand why she can learn to sit the first time I show her but then when I tell her "no" when she jumps, she does get off, but it doesn't stop her from doing it in the first place. and that is with me, so when company comes she is all over them!!! I have been instructing people not to pet her when she jumps or just tell her no or whatever, but no one EVER listens to me past the third jump, lol!!! I guess she's too cute or whatever but I know the cuteness will wear off and Im not amused!!!

 

so, I've gotten more firm with her but that doesn't really seem to be working either. My husband has just started shoving her off of him, and the last couple times I noticed that she sort of quietly mouthed his hand as he did it. I don't think he noticed but I did!! The last thing in the world I want is a bitey jumpy dog! So I'd really like to nip this in the bud ASAP!!!

 

That said, Im also having leash problems. I have'nt used a choker or gentle leader or anything yet, and she is like a horse now. I never really have given her any leash corrections yet, I read something like to wait until they were older (4-5 months old) and more used to the leash. I have tried just stopping and making her sit each time she pulls, but as soon as I start walking she starts pulling. and because my other dog was so sensitive I just havent wanted to be too firm with her because I guess I was afraid I might damage her happy personality. Well, she is super tough now, and Im thinking maybe I need to be more firm? any thoughts on this????

 

anyway, don't think I've completely procrastinated on training or anything, she knows very well sit, lay down, shake, fetch, to sit and wait before being let out the door, or getting her food, and to load up into her crate on command. anyways any advice would be appreciated!!!!

 

thanks!!! btw Im so glad this site exists!!

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Congrats on your new pup!

 

For walking on a leash, what worked for me was that as soon as Woobie puts tension on the leash, I start backing up. As soon as he starts walking towards me, I start walking forward again. I don't say a word other than the "Walk" command I give him which means to walk w/o tension on the leash. I usually have to do it a few times at the beginning of every walk because he's a stubborn stinker. At first I was doing it for the better part of an hour walk, now it's maybe the first 5-10 minutes.

 

I didn't introduce any kind of correction collar until Woobs was a year. That's just my personal choice, because he's so shy and skittish, but I really hope to eventually do competition obedience and just for our bond, I want his cooperation and not just because he fears or doesn't want the correction. I now use a pinch collar sporadically for teaching heeling, but it's really limited in use.

 

For jumping, I only had to deal with this with an Airedale I used to have. He'd greet my kids' friends by jumping up and he was big, so I had to put a stop to that right quick. I didn't let him greet anyone off lead for several months. I'd make them wait and I'd drop the lead and stand on it so there was only enough slack for him to stand or sit. If he attempted to jump, it would stop him. Then I'd have them walk up and I'd give him a sit command or they would. They stood close to him but he couldn't make contact. As soon as he sat, I had them them give him a "Good boy" and greet him. If his butt popped up, I had them move away and wait til he sat again. The kids were best at helping me with this because they liked to show their parents how they helped train my dog. If you can get people to cooperate, it can work pretty well. With a terrier, it took several months!

 

Hope this helps! Have fun with your pup!

[Guest Freckles LaLa Mom]

Sorry, no help here... OFF was the very first thing we taught Freckles. We're working with Tucker....who is just over four mos. He's barely getting the concept of 'off' and he's really smart too. Odd the things they get and dont get. He knows sit, shake (right) paw (left) high five, IN, ON, touch He's learning down, roll over and off and doesnt pull on the leash when alone with us. We havent even had him for eight weeks yet, he had NO training whatsoever. Repetition and consistency were what worked with freckles. We GOT her at five months though...she pulls too, a lot. We've yet to break her of this...I'm seriously considering a halti for her as Tucker only pulls when she's around.....doing the same thing.

[Root Beer]

Basically she is super licky, pully, and jumps alot. I NEVER pet her when she jumps on me. From the beginning, (I've had her since 8 wks) when she's jumped up I tell her "no". I don't understand why she can learn to sit the first time I show her but then when I tell her "no" when she jumps, she does get off, but it doesn't stop her from doing it in the first place. and that is with me, so when company comes she is all over them!!! I have been instructing people not to pet her when she jumps or just tell her no or whatever, but no one EVER listens to me past the third jump, lol!!! I guess she's too cute or whatever but I know the cuteness will wear off and Im not amused!!!

 

so, I've gotten more firm with her but that doesn't really seem to be working either. My husband has just started shoving her off of him, and the last couple times I noticed that she sort of quietly mouthed his hand as he did it. I don't think he noticed but I did!! The last thing in the world I want is a bitey jumpy dog! So I'd really like to nip this in the bud ASAP!!!

 

There is another approach you can take. Instead of telling her "no", which might not really mean anything to her, you could teach her what you want her to do.

 

I teach my dogs an "off" cue. At a time when the dog is not jumpy or excited, I get him to jump up on me and then, I very gently move out of the way so his paws go back down on the floor and I give him treats when all four paws are on the floor. Once my dogs get the game, the tough part becomes getting them to jump up in the first place. I teach "up up" as "stand up on two legs and put your paws on me" and "off" as put all paws on the floor.

 

I acutally don't use this as a reprimand, but as a directive. If I walk into the house wearing nice clothes and I don't want my dogs to jump up on me (as they are actually allowed normally because I like Border Collie hugs), I tell them "off" as I approach. If one of the dogs looks to be about to ignore that, I say it more firmly. Just as they learn to sit on cue, they learn to keep four on the floor on cue when I want them too.

 

If you are going to use "no", you will want to teach her what it means. If it means "put your paws on the floor", you will want to practice that at times when she is not excited and jumpy. If it means "sit" in this instance, I would work on that separately. A lot of times we tell our dogs "no" without ever really attaching a meaning to it.

[juliepoudrier]

No training tips, but I hope you're just rolling the frisbee for her at this age while her bones and joints are still growing.

 

J.

[Tip]

good advice, thanks.

 

root beer, i think you helped me to answer my own question. I just realized my dog is smarter than me! Everytime she jumps I would tell her no, but then tell her to sit so that I could praise her for doing what I want. Its so funny because I just realized that lately I havent had to tell her sit, just 'no', because she's been sitting automatically so I would pet her! duh! she is tricky!

 

I have taken all of your suggestions, I am going to try the walking away trick because she definately follows anything moving. I do this when I run around the yard with her, if she runs one way, I run the other and soon she is running beside me. I guess running is funner than walking!!

 

julie, just wondering, is it bad to play frisbee? I know shes not ready to go on 3-5 mile jogs with me, but I thought throwing frisbee in the backyard a few times a day was good for her to be excercised. I don't throw it super far, like my husband can (but he always throws them in the pond! lol!!) & we don't usually play for more than 10-15 minutes at a time tho, but my dog has energy to burn! Is that bad for her? is there another excercise thats preferrable?

[Samantha J]

I have always been really careful with Holly, didn't try frisbee until she was over 12months old. She wasn't keen then so i tried a while ago now she likes it. Funny girl. lol

 

Anyway i think any jumping and twisting is not a good idea until they are at least 1yr old. It was quite hard stopping Holly doing the jumping thing though!! We didn't let her even climb the stairs until she was 6months old.

 

JMO

[juliepoudrier]

Tip,

Any repetitive high-impact activity is bad for puppies because it puts too much stress on growing joints. Swimming after a frisbee in the water is okay, but jumping and all the other gymnastics that a dog does to catch a frisbee shouldn't be allowed until the dog is at least a year old. A good rule of thumb is to always roll balls, frisbees, etc., so that the pup is not inclined to jump. Jumping off stairs (like those leading down from a porch or deck) should also be discouraged. With a youngster it's a fine line between getting them exercise and potentially permanently damaging bones and joints. Pups will run and jump in normal play, and that's okay, but it's nothing like the repetitive jumping that occurs when jumping up after a frisbee. One board member had a dog who would leap down the stairs and she ended up having to get surgery for the dog for the resulting OCD (osteochondritis dessicans). I know of another dog that required the same surgery for the same problem after being allowed to repeatedly leap at tree branches while a pup. There is also a school of thought that says repeated high-impact activities can cause changes in the hip joint structure consistent with hip dysplasia. I'm not saying all this trying to scare you, but just as a warning that you need to be careful with growing bodies. The high repetitive impact caused by jumping for frisbees is really no different than the high-impact sustained when jogging, except that the actual impact at the moment of landing may be higher, though shorter lived. And then there's all the other gymnastics they do on top of jumping when going after a frisbee. Wait on all of that till your pup's a bit more mature.

 

Just let her tear around doing normal puppy things, playing tug, and chasing rollers. In normal puppy play there's not a lot of repetitive jumping, and even play bouts don't last very long, though they may occur often. If she'll swim after a frisbee then I think it would be safe to throw it in the pond for her to fetch, since swimming is low stress on the skeletal structure.

 

J.

[hoku's mum]

What really worked for us and the jumping thing was to just turn your back and ignore the pup. Sometimes any attention (even getting told no in a stern voice and pushed off) is better then nothing. Ask for what you want in a polite greeting (sit, whatever you want), and if you get jumped on, turn and leave. If it happens at the door, turn around and go back out the door. Enlist some friends to help you by coming to your door, knocking, coming in, and if they get jumped on, they turn and leave. Try again in a minute. It may take a bunch of tries, but they really finally get it that jumping just makes the fun people go away. Give any company a heads up, most people are glad to help you train your pup to be a polite host, and it makes an interesting start to the visit! It can get quite comical if it goes on for a bunch of times (I know from experience ), but it really worked for us, and now our friends always comment on how nicely Hoku greets visitors.

[Tip]

thanks again!

 

julie, thanks, and that is a relief to hear because i was just thinking the other day how can I get her to jump to catch the frisbee because she always lets it hit the ground first. SO im glad now that she doesn't jump! but I guess I should stop playing for a while before she learns to jump

 

anyways, its too bad the dogs can't swim in the pond because its covered with thick green crud, so when he throws them into the pond its by accident! I have taken her to the lake a few times and she will chase a soccer ball into the water and swim out to it. She doesnt seem enthralled by water but she isnt afraid of it either.

 

yesterday I worked with her for a while on the leash, and she started to get it! I was more stubborn this time about stopping when ever she pulled or walking the opposite direction. I can see how this could take a while but actually work!

 

Hoku's mom, I think I will try this and I've started ignoring her when she jumps on me. I also am going to teach her its okay to jump when I invite her only... as root beer said. I think that was part of the problem is I was telling her not to jump ever and other people dont mind as much, I think thats confusing to her. One of the reasons this is so important to me is my little sister is pregnant.

 

anyways, thanks so much! your suggestions are very much appreciated!!

[Ruger's Dad]

Ruger is 2.5yrs old and he still pulls a little when we walk. This drives me up a wall at times because I walk him and our Springer together. Casey the Springer does not pull.

 

I ended up getting a pinch collar and a short 30in leash for him. There is a night and day difference of walking him with this combination than a regular leash and just his collar. If you are using one of those leashes on a reel my suggestion is throw in the garbage. They aren't going to teach a dog how to walk on a heel.

[Guest Freckles LaLa Mom]

No training tips, but I hope you're just rolling the frisbee for her at this age while her bones and joints are still growing.

 

J.

 

 

AHA! ROLL the frisbee....good thinkin'! Now, I wonder where the frisbee is so I can roll it for tuck

[mbc1963]

My dog isn't jumpy, but I watched my trainer work with lots of dogs who were. His method seemed to work with all the dogs within minutes - the only trick was getting the owner to repeat what he did.

 

Basically, he did what a few others have mentioned - he removed what the dog wanted (attention) any time the dog jumped up. So, he'd walk toward a dog who really wanted to greet him. As soon as the dog stopped sitting, he'd turn his back and walk away. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until the dog understood that the sitting was what was getting the man to approach and the jumping up was what was getting the man to walk away.

 

I tried it with the little dog down the street, and within two days she would sit as soon as she saw me approaching.

 

Good luck with your work! I hope can lots of others work on the exercise too.

 

Mary

[bc4pack]

Just something else to think about.... 5-6 mos...becoming a teenager and brains sometimes seem to

leak out of their ears ... but they do eventually seem to recoop their grey matter ...

[JLP]

I had the pulling problem also with my dog Rocky on walks. I found a stick tho about 4 foot and used it to break him. All I did was put the stick in front of his head and he would let the tension off. Worked like a charm. Now I carry the stick with me but hardly ever have to stick it in front of his head. Its amazing how border collies just listen when you show them a stick without ever having to use it

[Stuporman]

Congratulations on your pup; she sounds like a normal healthy happy handful. Rolling the frisbee really gets to a pup's prey instinct, chasing something that's moving along the ground. Doing this until she's at least a year old(I prefer 16 months or so) can prevent problems later on. I know that the occasional throw is hard to resist, so keep it low and with the wind so it sinks faster. Unless you're well practiced, throwing against the wind gives the disc too much lift and teached the dog to make wreckless jumps too early. Dogs learn really will when they're driven, so you can kill 2 birds with one stone here. Hold the frisbee so it entices her to jump on you. You don't even have to wait for the actual jump, you'll see the thought and say "off" or whatever command you prefer while you bring the disc down to the ground. When she follows it down, praise her and roll it as a reward. I've seen this transfer over to whatever the dog wants, whether it be attention, food or a toy in as fast as a day or two if the dog really wants the frisbee when you do it. Good luck.