Jimmyd65 Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Layla (11 mos) has had monthly sometimes 2x per month bouts of diarreah. We've tried to narrow this down to either HW meds (interceptor) or Frontline. Vet insists it's neither. She was back to his office yet again last week and he diagnosed her as having bouts of Colitis. Have to admit we were giving her some table scraps and we're totally off anthing from the table. Everything cleared up since last Thursday only to have her sick again this afternoon. (Frontline administered at 7:00am today). She also had a lesson with Sheep on Saturday afternoon and did eat some Sheep poo. Would this trigger her diarreah? Also we had her spayed in February and moved her to adult kibble at the recommendation of the Vet. We have her on the Iams adult chunks. I don't believe this is the right food for her and we're currently researching other alternatives such as California Natural, Orijen and other natural brands. Please comment as we're struggling to get her regular on a monthly basis. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Personally, I would question the kibble. I don't really know too much about hw meds or frontline since I don't live in a climate that requires it. My first thought would be the food if the vet can't find anything else wrong with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Iams is not a quality food and if I were you, I would certainly consider changing over to something better. Has your vet suggested any bloodwork? A basic panel or a fasting digestive panel (and I'm sorry but those might not quite be what they are called). Bloodwork can either supply you with a good base line for values for your dog, or it can indicate problems that may be dealt with if values are outside normal ranges. My Bute, who had diarrhea fairly regularly, did show abnormalities on his bloodwork - the basic panel showed issues with liver and kidney values (which told the vet that something was amiss). The fasting digestive panel showed Vitamin B12 malabsorption (which can lead to other problems). Perhaps we could have helped him to have a longer, healthier life if we had done bloodwork sooner and if his health issues could have been dealt with by good medical care and adjusting his diet. I hope you are able to solve her problems. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I agree with the suggestion to look for a better kibble than Iams. If you do some searching on these boards, you will find lots of threads on diet and kibble. There are many very good, holistic kibbles like the ones you mention to choose from though you will probably need to buy from a smaller pet supplies store or the Internet. Last time I checked, PetSmart didn't have the best choice of good kibbles. I assume your vet has looked at stool samples for parasites, including giardia and coccidia. The sheep poop may not have agreed with your girl but that doesn't explain the other bouts of diarrhea. Quinn spent his first 18 months with intermittent diarrhea and often had giardia or coccidia. He ended up being diagnosed with Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) and traditional vet. care only made him sicker. When I finally took him to a holistic vet, she took him off all medications and put him on a homemade diet with supplements. He's been great ever since. The thing is what works for one dog might not not work for another. There are lots of reasons that a dog could have diarrhea -- parasites and food allergies are the first two I would look into. What I urge is that you find a vet who will work with you to figure out the reason and the right diet. If he only suggests prescription or Iams type diets -- that may work (it does for some dogs) but if it doesn't and the diarrhea keeps happening, then you may want to consider a different vet. I really wish I hadn't stuck with the same vet with Quinn for so long. I liked that she was fairly holistic but she was too busy to really focus on him the way he deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Your points about giardia and coccida are excellent. Giardia in particular can be hard to diagnose, and requires a very, very fresh sample for success (in my experience). Another issue with parasites, protozoans, and so forth is that long-term infestation can result in damage to the digestive tract, so it's well worth checking this possibility out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Your points about giardia and coccida are excellent. Giardia in particular can be hard to diagnose, and requires a very, very fresh sample for success (in my experience). Another issue with parasites, protozoans, and so forth is that long-term infestation can result in damage to the digestive tract, so it's well worth checking this possibility out. Dal was from a diary farm in Pa and he had clostridium P. It tends to show up when he's stressed. I might try 5 days of safeguard to rule out Giardia just in case since it wont hurt anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberviewfarm Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Whipworms can also cause intermittant diarrhea as well as a whole flock of other problems in the later stages if not treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleS. Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Since you mentioned your thoughts about the diarrhea being related to the application of Frontline, I wanted to tell you of a friend with goldens who started to notice that her dogs were having bouts of diarrhea that coincided with her applying their Frontline treatments (all 3 of her dogs, same symptoms). This went on for a while before she thought to relate it to the Frontline application. She also mentioned that the diarrhea was "weird colored" and "unusually foul smelling". I am not quite sure what she has done about it so I can't give any further information. Just wanted to mention that. But it could anyone of the things mentioned here by the others. Michele & Hughie & Gypsy & Chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Another issue with parasites, protozoans, and so forth is that long-term infestation can result in damage to the digestive tract, so it's well worth checking this possibility out. Thanks, Sue. I meant to make that point. I think the long term issues with coccidia and giardia plus all the treatments Quinn underwent for them for over a year trashed his GI tract and at least contributed to his IBD. I don't mind living and learning, but I hate that I did so at the expense of my dog's health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Liz - I often wonder how much Bute's infestation of giardia (we got him at 12 weeks of age and have no idea how long he'd been infested) may have contributed to his GI issues and, one wonders, if it contributed to his early demise. He also came with hookworm, and it took several treatments to eliminate that. Again, it makes me wonder if that may have left any long-term effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Just another thought. You mention that you're not feeding any table scraps. But are you giving any of that chicken jerky product? Daisy had on-again off-again diarrhea for quite a while until I stopped feed the Costco dried chicken breast strips. In case you are using any dried meat products, you might want to read the earlier thread about it: Chicken Jerky Thread One poster pointed out something that made sense to me: Jerky (for human consumption) has quite a high salt content that acts as a preservative. The dried chicken strips for dogs don't have that level of salt and may very well be a good carrier of bacteria. The contamination could happen anywhere, including in your home after opening the package. If that's not an issue, sorry for the distraction. Just thought I'd bring it up just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Layla gets BiJac liver treats. Maybe these treats should stop also to narrow down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Spoke to the Vet last night and Layla's stool sample from last Thursday visit came back negative. We've introduced her to California Natural Lamb/Rice last night. She's never lost her appetite or has shown any other changes during her episodes of diarreah. Yesterday's diarreah bout did not last as long as the other few. Hopefully an isolated incident from the sheep poo. Either way, we found a terrific small local pet food store in Wayne, Pa (Braxton's Animal Works). They carry ALL of the products that I see other members mentioning.. I really appreciate everyone's advice and guidance. Thanks again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Spoke to the Vet last night and Layla's stool sample from last Thursday visit came back negative. Do you know if they specifically looked for giardia? That is not always run when they do a stool check. Also, years ago I had a dog with recurrent diarrhea and the stool checks kept coming back negative. He had hookworm and it was only when the timing of stool availability/office hours coincided so that the sample I brought in was one worst examples, did they find the hook worm. Giardia can be hard to find though it was always obvious for Quinn when they ran that test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Does Layla get any rawhide bones? When we stopped giving Scooter rawhide, the stomach and bowel issues stopped. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Does Layla get any rawhide bones? When we stopped giving Scooter rawhide, the stomach and bowel issues stopped. Just a thought. yes, she does get rawhide. I've pulled that from her also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Liz - I often wonder how much Bute's infestation of giardia (we got him at 12 weeks of age and have no idea how long he'd been infested) may have contributed to his GI issues and, one wonders, if it contributed to his early demise. I do think these early illnesses can leave a lingering impact. When Quinn was suffering from repeated bouts of giardia, on of my dog club members commented that this can result in a chronic colitis type condition. Our holistic vet felt that Quinn never should have been shipped to me while he was recovering from kennel cough (at 4, he still has a once in a while cough that was diagnosed as allergic bronchitis when he was a pup). He never should have been vaccinated repeatedly while he was under the weather. And then the repeated bombardment of various medications for the GI/bronchial issues further assaulted his immune system. The vet feels Quinn simply can not tolerate processed food and I think the home prepared diet went a long way to helping him become a healthy dog (who coughs now and then). It was very educational to see how traditional veterinary care just could not truly help this particular dog with his particular issues. By the time he was diagnosed with IBD, traditional care was making him much worse. Before I found the holistic vet, we did get temporary relief from acupuncture for GI and bronchial problems but Quinn came to hate the treatment so much that eventually we stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I would try switching her kibble. I had Lok on Canidae, which most will agree is a good quality food, but he had loose stools or diarrhea every couple weeks and would occasionally have accidents in his crate. We switched to a grain-free food (Wellness Core, and now Orijen) and all of his stool issues cleared right up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberviewfarm Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Whipworms are also not typically detected in stool samples as they shed randomly which is typically when the diarrhea would start. My vet had me do the treatment for whipworms on one dog, that tested negative, but after the treatment the diarrhea cleared so one must assume that there was an undected infestation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Layla gets BiJac liver treats. Maybe these treats should stop also to narrow down. Liver is quite rich and can very easily give a dog the runs! Also, you do have to specifically ask for a giardia test, well, here anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I need to ask the same question about Frontline, is there any connection. We started Frontline in March and have troubles since. We did not have trouble before although we have been through bouts with the dogs that we looked into. Our vet ruled out any other problems after considerable testing. We do not use Frontline in the winter and the dogs are fine. It is odd that they started to have trouble when we started to use it again this year. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbirdie Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 No Frontline used here. I went through periodic diarrhea with dogs, my two and friends' dogs who played with mine. They were getting chicken jerky during the Chinese melamine thing. Got rid of the jerky. Their dogs continued to have diarrhea, one of mine back to normal. They had theirs tested for parasites and giarrdhea, came back negative. Took away rawhides, tried different kibbles, didn't help. I switched to raw food and it cured the issue for mine. My friends won't do raw and their dogs are still having diarrhea periodically. The diarrhea was horribly smelly, worse thing I had ever smelled which includes dead animals at 80%humidity and 95 degrees. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Do you know if they specifically looked for giardia? That is not always run when they do a stool check. Also, years ago I had a dog with recurrent diarrhea and the stool checks kept coming back negative. He had hookworm and it was only when the timing of stool availability/office hours coincided so that the sample I brought in was one worst examples, did they find the hook worm. Giardia can be hard to find though it was always obvious for Quinn when they ran that test. Confirmed that gardia and coccida were also negative. Layla's seems to like the introduction of the California Natural so far. Stool was normal and firm this morning and this afternoon. Also started her on 3 days worth of Proviable HD that was given to us at the last weeks vet visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Correction: Proviable KP/DC kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Correction: Proviable KP/DC kit I'm with the brand or abbreviations. What is it exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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