Jimmyd65 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I took Lacee in for her yearly check up last night. Also, to talk about her diarrhea issues. Well, as always, I came out confused. First, she test positive for Lyme disease, which surprised me, as I take all the precautions needed. So we're working on that issue. As for the diarrhea, he did blood work, etc to rule out any bad stuff and I talked him into giving her panacur just in case, even though her fecal was negative. Then he gave suggested Royal Canin for food. The digestive low fat brand. I was wondering if anyone could give me opinions on this. Dog food really confuses me, esp. with Lacee's issues. What do you feed a dog who has diarrhea issues? The vet said high protein. I know we need to stay away from grain. But there's so many dog foods out there! Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. We have Layla on Orijen 6 fish. She's been on Forti-Flora for over a week now and seems to be doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 The colitis is back again. Since we got Gus the rescue dog its more requent, not sure if it the stress of having him, but they get along just fine together. We're tired of the vet saying she just has Colits, prescibing Flagyl and pushing Purina EN (filled with corn BTW). He has not offered to do a CBC, MRI, Colonoscopy or anything to diagnos what is causing the Colitis. If she truly has Colitis we want to know and what type of colitis it is. I shouldn't have to research the HELL out of this to find answers. Is this not why I've spent hundreds of dollars with this guy. We're VERY frustrated to say the least. We're ready to make an appointment at the University of Pennsylvania. They have a top notch diagnosis department. Please everyone throw a little MOJO towards Layla. We just want her to be regular. BTW, you would never know that she has this problem. Her play level and appitite are just fine. Just the poops are Frustrating for her and us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Have you dewormed her yet? If so with what, how much and when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Have you dewormed her yet? If so with what, how much and when? She was given Drontol + #68 on November 28th. She seemed better for 5 or 6 days after that. She is due for the 2nd pill on December 12th. The Vet insisted that her stool samples were fine but I insisted that we worm her. We're hoping what the 1st pill didn't get the 2nd will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I agree that you need a referrel to a veterinary internist, who can perform the diagnostics. I have a dog, who had recurrent bouts of colitis. She wound up having an abdominal ultrasound because she has a history of a mast cell cancer and mom, who is in the medical field, was concerned about internal tumors. Her exam was very normal and the internist told us to return for a colonoscopy/ biopsy if symptoms persisted. Her symptoms finally resolved after a stint on probiotics, non diary, purchased from a human health food store. Her most recent bout occurred after coming home from the kennel. This time,both my dogs were pooping mucousy yuck. In the end, I had to treat them both simultaneously for worms + with flagyl. The vet thought that they were passing something back and forth. So, if you have multiple dogs, treat all of them at once. It took longer for my colitis dog to improve and just as I was thinking about returning to the veterinary internist, I started feeding the probiotics again...and voila. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 She was given Drontol + #68 on November 28th. She seemed better for 5 or 6 days after that. She is due for the 2nd pill on December 12th. The Vet insisted that her stool samples were fine but I insisted that we worm her. We're hoping what the 1st pill didn't get the 2nd will. <banging head> how many posts from experienced people is it going to take to get this dog dewormed, with panacur, for an appropriate dose and time frame to treat giardia? The side effect potential is minimal, the treatment potential is huge! Fecals: unreliable at best. parasites have been in that part of the lifecycle, and even time of day can effect it. Giardia is particularily hard to find. Your vet, and others, are suggested very expensive testing and diagnostic procedures. Why not try a few dollars worth of panacur first - before you put your dog, and your wallet, through this? not a vet of course - that is my opinion is free and based only on actual real experience with personal dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I have to agree with Lenajo on this. Treatment with Panacur is definitely worth a try before you spend even more $$. I also think that Blackdawgs suggestion of giving a good quality brobiotic is warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 ^^^^ what they said. You yourself saw "some" improvement after the first Drontal. It's quite simple and oh so worth it! You can also order some probiotics and get her on them as well. Seriously, it sure beats giving your wallet to the vet yet again....then if it works, you're done. If not, plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 ^^^^ what they said. You yourself saw "some" improvement after the first Drontal. It's quite simple and oh so worth it! You can also order some probiotics and get her on them as well. Seriously, it sure beats giving your wallet to the vet yet again....then if it works, you're done. If not, plan B. So do I give the 2nd dose of Drontol or just order the Panacur. I believe Panacur needs a prescription, what if my vet refuses to write the script? How would I obtain this product. Please excuse my ignorance but we're just following what the vet is suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I have to agree with Lenajo on this. Treatment with Panacur is definitely worth a try before you spend even more $$. I also think that Blackdawgs suggestion of giving a good quality brobiotic is warranted. I don't know if this has been suggested but you may want to try Tylan powder for a few weeks.. You can buy it at a feed store. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 <banging head> how many posts from experienced people is it going to take to get this dog dewormed, with panacur, for an appropriate dose and time frame to treat giardia? The side effect potential is minimal, the treatment potential is huge! Fecals: unreliable at best. parasites have been in that part of the lifecycle, and even time of day can effect it. Giardia is particularily hard to find. Your vet, and others, are suggested very expensive testing and diagnostic procedures. Why not try a few dollars worth of panacur first - before you put your dog, and your wallet, through this? not a vet of course - that is my opinion is free and based only on actual real experience with personal dogs. I just ordered the Panacur from 1800Pedmeds. We're still going to give the last Drontol as scheduled and take it from there. If there is a re-occurance after the 2nd Drontol we'll start the Panacur. I ordered: (1) box of 1 gram and (1) box of 2 gram packets and hopefully will be delivered on Friday. This will be enough for a 3 day period since Layla is 27 pounds. We appreciate the comments and patients of all who have responded to this thread. We will keep you posted on the progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Numbers and info coming shortly. The treatment for Giardia is 5 days. You may want to change your order once Wendy get's the info to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proce...000/PR00425.htm is a good article. The treatment articles gives the dosage. They start with 3 days, and recommend 5-7 for bad cases. ime with rescues I find 5 days works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks for the article - very informative! Not to quibble with what I'm sure is excellent advice from Lenajo about using Panacur - but the link she included seemed to suggest that Drontol Plus is also an excellent choice for treatment of Giardia. A quick Google search indicated that Drontol is effective against a broad range of parasites. So my question is whether there's anything to be gained by dosing with Panacur if Drontol has just been administered? Mostly I ask because I'm going to request Panacur the next time Duncan gets diarrhea - I've wasted too much $ on fecal exams and figure next time to be one of those owners who "requests empirical therapy rather than definitive diagnostic testing" (to quote from the article). If my vet suggests Drontol Plus should I insist on Panacur? Is one really better than the other? This article also mentions metronidazole (indicates it's less effective against Giardia). Duncan was once prescribed metronidazole for diarrhea, but it caused him to vomit, profusely, repeatedly, for many hours after administration (so it wasn't just a response to its taste, which is supposed to be somewhat bitter). Didn't seem to matter if it was administered with food or not. We won't try that one again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks for the article - very informative! Not to quibble with what I'm sure is excellent advice from Lenajo about using Panacur - but the link she included seemed to suggest that Drontol Plus is also an excellent choice for treatment of Giardia. A quick Google search indicated that Drontol is effective against a broad range of parasites. So my question is whether there's anything to be gained by dosing with Panacur if Drontol has just been administered? Mostly I ask because I'm going to request Panacur the next time Duncan gets diarrhea - I've wasted too much $ on fecal exams and figure next time to be one of those owners who "requests empirical therapy rather than definitive diagnostic testing" (to quote from the article). If my vet suggests Drontol Plus should I insist on Panacur? Is one really better than the other? This article also mentions metronidazole (indicates it's less effective against Giardia). Duncan was once prescribed metronidazole for diarrhea, but it caused him to vomit, profusely, repeatedly, for many hours after administration (so it wasn't just a response to its taste, which is supposed to be somewhat bitter). Didn't seem to matter if it was administered with food or not. We won't try that one again. The article reads: "Drontal Plus is also be an excellent choice for treatment of Giardia. This product includes febantel in addition to praziquantel and pyrantel pamoate). Drontal Plus is administered once daily for 3 consecutive days for treatment of Giardia". I guess my question is why did my vet say to give 1 tablet then another 2 weeks later??? The first table seemed to work for 6 days. Maybe if all was given within a 3 day period it would have totally killed whatever may be causing this? Just guessing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Drontal is not Drontal Plus. The dog was given Drontal (correct?) which has no indication for giardia. It's the PLUS part. Why? your vet did the 6 day later thing? Because he's either dumb, or pacifying what he considers an unecessary request. Neither is flattering...but all too common! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Drontal is not Drontal Plus. The dog was given Drontal (correct?) which has no indication for giardia. It's the PLUS part. Why? your vet did the 6 day later thing? Because he's either dumb, or pacifying what he considers an unecessary request. Neither is flattering...but all too common! Correction: Drontol Plus #68. 1 tablet then 2nd tablet 2 weeks later. I don't understand why you have to wait 2 weeks for the 2nd dosage, after the 1st dosage seemed to work, for a week anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyna Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi There, I have been going through this with Rock for the last 3 years and received much of the excellent advise you have received here on the thread I posted "Rock Needs New Food - Sensitive Stomach" (http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=21475&hl=kyna). I have done a lot of experimenting and we have ultimately gone with the prescription fibre food from the vet. After blood work and parasite treatment my vet related business trips with Rock's diarrhea, i.e. if I went out of town without him he got diarrhea. I had him on the vet fibre food only (no treats or chewies) for about a month and then I added vet treats and about 3 weeks later I added vet chewies. A month later we added fish oils and glucosamine/etc tablet. He has been good for almost three months. BUT my husband went on a 4 day business trip this week and Rock started to get soft stool so I immediately cut his kibble to half, topped it off with plain white rice and stopped the chewies and supplements for a couple days. We caught it and he didn't get full on diarrhea. So our conclusion is that if he gets stressed, he gets diarrhea. We aren't super happy about the quality of the vet food compared to the Origein, Acana, or California Naturals we tried. He is also quite the poop producer. That said though, we are happy that he is healthy and happy. The low point for us was when his poop was really bloody. I am 33 weeks pregnant and we know that the baby may stress him out so we are reticent to try a better quality food, especially since he is doing so well. He is a svelt dog but he is keeping weight on, his coat and skin look great, and he is exuberant. Hope our experience helps - you WILL figure out what works for you! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmyd65 Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I hope this post doesn't jinx anything, but here goes. Layla had her 2nd dose of Drontol plus and 7 days of Flaygl the middle of December. She's been off the antibiotic for 2 weeks now and everything is A-OK. She did however have a loose stool the day after Christmas but we gave her a few cookie treats (organic no-grain, etc). Shame on her owners for that. She's been strictly on her Orijen 6 fish kibble and nothing else. I now have to believe it was some unidentified parasite. We did order the panacur but have not given to her since the Drontol plus and Flaygl seemed to have done the job. We have the Panacur ready if the problems heat back up. You don't know how much of a relief it's been to have her doing so well. Thanks to our friends on the BC boards for the great tips and continued support. Have a safe and happy new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 If it was me, I would consider treating her with the Panacur now for three days and repeating it again in two weeks. I guess I'm in the habit of repeating every other week for a couple of months to make sure the cycles are broken, especially if you are not certain what the infestation is. But...that's just me. If you wait to see a problem you will be back to square one and not get the dog cleaned up. When our vet was here in October he commented that people don't deworm enough, especially pups and young dogs. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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