some Rico correspondence

[PennyT]

I forgot to include that within the category of sheep subcategory real sheep, Mick knows adult sheep and baby sheep. He treats them differently.

 

I wonder if there is a way to get him to show he knows your real sheep from strange real sheep. There are a lot of stories on this. In fact, I vaguely remember reading in a book on border collies (maybe it was an oldish one) that a good dog must have that ability. Does anyone remember? I have not seen it because my sheep don't get mixed up with sheep belonging to other people. On and off I do keep some sheep for a friend with mine but then they are intentionally treated as one bunch.

 

Learning from new stick figures: Is that fast-mapping of some kind?

 

Penny

[J.E.S]

My dog, Seth, knows the difference between goats and sheep by name. If I tell him only goats, he will get only the goats. If I say sheep he will bring me the sheep only. He also knows chickens by name. Although I think any large bird is a chicken to him. I have seen him fetch a large group of sheep off a hill and when they gathered around the horses legs at the bottom corner of the field, he manuevered around to fetch all the sheep from the horses and left the big wether goat alone also.

 

Joan

[Margaret M Wheeler]

Originally posted by Bill Fosher:

42

Hrrmmm?

[cgt]

Margaret: Bill's answer should have sufficed to finish off all discussion on this (or any) topic .... except perhaps why one should have a protein/fat ratio of 3/2 in dog food.

 

Sorry folks.

 

We now return you to the ongoing saga: "Canine existentialism and the meaning of life." (A.K.A.: "If a dog's anal glands are expressed in a forest...")

 

charlie

[Margaret M Wheeler]

Ha!

 

Charlie,

 

Time for a little livin' in the boonies arcana!

 

I have a question for you. My little old lady terrier got into a porcupine last night. Luckily all the quills were stuck on her muzzle with a couple in her gums up front. None in her mouth or on her tongue thank god. I pulled them out with minimal muss and fuss.

 

Do you know why quills seem so smooth and dull after you pull them? Do the barbs stay in the skin? Looking at these quills I cannot figure out how they could get so stuck so easily!

 

Marg

[cgt]

Ah, Margaret. I have thought about this many evenings until I was weary with exertion. But, try as I might, never was I able to come to a conclusion in this regard. I even tried drinking cognac, smoking a pipe and wearing a beret. But I got nowhere. Sorry.

 

charlie

[Margaret M Wheeler]

'Tis a tough nut to crack. If the beret don't do it nothing will. Thanks anyway.

 

Edit: Ok, I have the answer. They are sharper than they look. I just didn't push them hard enough.

 

I have concrete evidence: two bleeding holes in the tip of my finger. Purely anecdotal, but proof enough for me.

[Denise Wall]

There are many amazing stories of border collies doing things others might find unbelievable. Teasing out each of these abilities and perceptions would be a challenge indeed.

 

I don't believe Mick is special or different from other border collies (and maybe other dogs) in his ability to discriminate symbolic objects. I just think he's keen to find sheep so we can more easily see this ability. Which leads me back to one of the original questions in the beginning of the thread. How can scientists determine what dogs can learn or perceive if they don't respond in the ways we can measure?

[PennyT]

Mick is not special in these abilities. For me, the great thing about him as an example is that he is a very good stock dog indeed, you've got pictures, your observations are reliable, and I know Mick.

 

I also believe Joan about Seth without question and all the other anecdotes offered seriously. I want to hear more about separating gathering by species and also cattle by breed, etc.

 

The reason I fixed on Mick is that the photos went up.

 

I also think that the example from the Leslie Stephen quote in Darwin of dogs knowing the concept of sheep and cat as well as a philosopher dovetails naturally with what came up here with people posting their obeservations.

 

Penny

[J.E.S]

"I don't believe Mick is special or different from other border collies (and maybe other dogs) in his ability to discriminate symbolic objects. I just think he's keen to find sheep so we can more easily see this ability"

 

My dog Meg that has the ability to discern sheep in a picture or on tv is a very keen to find sheep dog. She is my most keen. Not to say she's my best worker, just the most keen to find sheep. While the other dogs will play she only wants to focus on the sheep. So perhaps this is why she does look for sheep anywhere including pictures, tv etc. very interesting.

 

Joan