katherinelynne Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Hi I'm new to the board but not new to BC's, right now I have one sweet girl Jen and am about to purchase another pup from my breeder. This time her litter produced two blue and white boys when I went to look and observe the pups (I dont look for sex or color just temperment and connection) I loved one of the blue's he active alert and so on. I put a deposit down but still have not made my selection they are 3wks and I want to observe a bit more, but I do like that boy. Does anyone know if there are health concerns for these guys, or does anyone here own a blue BC if so I would be very grateful for any info. Thanks so much!! Oh one more thing I wont be breeding I am not a breeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 The only thing health issue I've heard with dilute color dogs is color dilution alopecia. Here is a link another person posted on the topic. It's an Italian greyhound site, but color dilution alopecia is the same no matter what the breed: http://www.italiangreyhound.org/health/cda.html If you Google color dilution alopecia, you can find lots of sites that discuss it. That said, just because a dog is a dilute color doesn't mean it will develop CDA, it's just a possibility you might want to be aware of. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericspin Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Well, I am new to the board also. And I am a BC first timer. I have had GSD all my life and when my female passed away last November I decided I wanted to get a BC as I had always wanted one. My little guy is also blue and white and I am also from Florida (maybe there is something in the water). My vet did warn me about the alopecia and I have read tons on the internet about it. She also said that since it was a diluted gene there could be more of a risk for problems with immune system but she did not seem to be overly worried about it. I figure I will just watch him closer than usual. Where in Florida are you? I got my blue and white guy (Matsi) from a farm breeder in Williston. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherinelynne Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thanks for the info I am grateful I am in Apopka and I love border collies once you've owned one there is just no going back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 A type of AIHA is also associated with the dilutes. I personally know of one blue who popped up in a working bred litter that battled with it for the first year of his life. It's rare though, and that wouldn't stop me from buying the pup I liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 Originally posted by Liz P:A type of AIHA is also associated with the dilutes. I personally know of one blue who popped up in a working bred litter that battled with it for the first year of his life. It's rare though, and that wouldn't stop me from buying the pup I liked. I knew of the greater risk of alopecia, but not IMHA. I did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything --- I'll look again Monday. I lost the best dog ever to IMHA/AIHA, and if dilutes are even slightly more susceptible to this terrible illness, that would be enough to scare me away from ever keeping one. Yeah, I'm a wimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherinelynne Posted January 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 I am hate to say this but I don't know anything about IMHA/AIHA. I will also do some looking thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 I have only found it referenced in a few books on autoimmune disorders. I remember it being called something like "blue collie anemia" that is found in Collies, Shelties, BCs and related breeds. I only mentioned it at all because I know someone whose dog had it. I really do think it is extremely rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherinelynne Posted January 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 I looked and did not find information that linked it to border collies only other breeds of dogs were named. I also called my vet and she seemed to feel that the risk was extremely low. Both parents are blk and white so I am not sure how they came about. However the dad has alot of white that is ticked . I want this guy and hope he will be sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hi, I have a question about blue and white dogs. I heard some of the dogs with this color seemed to have a problem with having hair on their ears... Did somebody heard of that too? Or is their somebody here with a blue dog and how are its ears? I would like to have more info on this! Thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 >>I have a question about blue and white dogs. I heard some of the dogs with this color seemed to have a problem with having hair on their ears... << I had 2 light blue/white pups a few years ago (both sold now)....the bitch had basically ears with hardly any hair...it took a while to get used to it. The male ears were just fine... Now I have 2 dark blues/whites from Tess's litter...neither have any hairless ears but the coat seems softer...it might be since they are only 10 weeks too....who knows about the softness???? Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I have a blue and white and she has plenty of hair on her ears. Actually her ears are pretty fuzzy right now with the cold weather. She also has the thickest coat of any of our dogs. Her worst problem is having white/pink foot pads which seem to make her more sensitive to cold feet out in this cold, minus zero, weather that we're having. She is my second blue and white BC and my first one didn't have any hair issues either. And don't worry, this one is spayed. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I don't think the fact that a dog is blue and white means it will automatically have issues, but there are issues that are more common (though probably still pretty rare in the grand scheme of things) in dilute colors than in non-dilute colors. The problem with those issues is that they won't be readily apparent in a pup. If you adore a blue and white pup, there's no reason not to get it, as long as you are aware that there *may* be issues on down the line (the main one being alopecia--hair loss). Like everything else in life, you just make an informed choice. I wouldn't automatically spay a blue and white working dog for example. That blue dilution appears in some very important working lines, and so again you have to look at risk vs. benefit. Chances are you'll never have a problem with a blue dog, but it doesn't hurt to educate oneself to what problems might occur so you aren't taken by surprise on the off chance that they do occur later on. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I didn't mean to infer that just because a dog is blue and white it will automatically have issues. The alopecia is more prevalent in the blues, and I would guess the lilacs being that they are a dilution too. I know of a blue working bred female out of a litter that I raised for a friend who had this alopecia really bad. I never saw her so I don't know what she looked like, but it can be there. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey Kathy, I didn't take you to mean that the dog would automatically have issues. I was trying to point out that blue does sometimes occur in working bred litters and so was trying to say to anyone reading this that a blue and white dog coming from working parents wouldn't automatically be neutered (I'm guessing color is *not* the reason you neutered your dog). For the person who resurrected this thread (Romy), I want to say that I'd certainly stay away from lilac (dilute red) dogs because someone with lilac dogs has likely been breeding just to get that color--HUGE red flag. I am less concerned about blues because they do occasionally pop up in working bred litters (that is, they aren't specifically bred for, but were carried in some lines and so appear infrequently). What I was trying to say is that alopecia is possible, but that doesn't mean your dog will *definitely* lose its hair. When you choose a blue and white dog, I think you're playing the odds. For me, if it were a great working litter and my only choice was a blue puppy, I might take my chances on it. But that's because I'd know the breeder wasn't trying to get that color--it just appeared. This is one case where that distinction could be pretty important, because of course if you're deliberately trying to get a dilute color then you might also be doubling up on deleterious genes and perhaps increasing the chances for the occurrence of things like alopecia and IMHA in the pups. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey Kathy,I didn't take you to mean that the dog would automatically have issues. I was trying to point out that blue does sometimes occur in working bred litters and so was trying to say to anyone reading this that a blue and white dog coming from working parents wouldn't automatically be neutered (I'm guessing color is *not* the reason you neutered your dog). J. That's okay, Julie. I actually spayed her because she had one litter of 9 pups. In that litter she produced one dyplastic pup and one with epiphyseal dysplasia. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I don't think I would say that one lilac accidentally popping up is a red flag. Take Diane for example. Her Tess has produced red and now blue (correct me if I am wrong about that), but no one her would call her a color breeder. So, it is possible, though highly unlikely, for Tess to produce a lilac pup. It's the breeders who have unrelated bitches producing a rainbow of colors that you have to look out for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Anyone have pictures of blue pups in a litter (against black and white litter mates)? I'm always confused on what a blue and white is and how huge the difference in the coloring really is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Liz, That's why I had the caveat that dilute as a red flag didn't apply to working bred dogs in general, and that someone selling lilacs (not *a* lilac out of a working litter, but a litter of lilacs) was *likely* (but not absolutely) breeding for the color, and then went on to make the distinction that someone *deliberately* breeding for the color was more likely to produce pups with problems. I thought I was being pretty clear.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Liz,That's why I had the caveat that dilute as a red flag didn't apply to working bred dogs in general, and that someone selling lilacs (not *a* lilac out of a working litter, but a litter of lilacs) was *likely* (but not absolutely) breeding for the color, and then went on to make the distinction that someone *deliberately* breeding for the color was more likely to produce pups with problems. I thought I was being pretty clear.... J. Clear to me, but this might not be so clear to others... For the person who resurrected this thread (Romy), I want to say that I'd certainly stay away from lilac (dilute red) dogs because someone with lilac dogs has likely been breeding just to get that color--HUGE red flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I get ya Liz, and don't see the need to belabor it further. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks for all your replies! I didn't know about "alopecia". I was asking this because I saw a 2 months old blue and white pup with no hair on the ears and I was wondering if this was normal or from a bad breeding. I was thinking it might be a pup from a breeder that bred for the color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 >>Take Diane for example. Her Tess has produced red and now blue (correct me if I am wrong about that), but no one her would call her a color breeder. So, it is possible, though highly unlikely, for Tess to produce a lilac pup. << Tess's sire was red/white. When Tess was bred to Pleat...Pleat carried the red gene....hence the red/white pups. When Tess was bred to Scott, he carried the blue gene. I know it is from his lines as the other blue/white pups that I had gotten a few years were related to him. I believe the grandparents were full siblings or something like that. I'll have to dig up the papers and compare. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Today has some SUN so I ran out and got pixs of the pups Here is the dark gray on Niall...it's like a washed out black And here is Kael who is black for comparison At birth you could see the difference but now they are a darker gray , like faded black but still noticable if you look The guard hairs seem longer and finer too.... I am not a genetic expert person so have no idea on the coloring aspect...I am just a lowly EE Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Today has some SUN so I ran out and got pixs of the pups Here is the dark gray on Niall...it's like a washed out black And here is Kael who is black for comparison At birth you could see the difference but now they are a darker gray , like faded black but still noticable if you look The guard hairs seem longer and finer too.... I am not a genetic expert person so have no idea on the coloring aspect...I am just a lowly EE Diane Just being a snoop here, do you know where the blue is coming from in Tess's line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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