Tri pup from black/white parents

[tessthepest]

My dog had 6 puppies on June 1st, both of the parents are purebred, and black/white. one of the puppies looks like she might be a tri colored

is that possible? also when tri pups are born is the brown color not very noticable at first, then develop as the pup gets older? that seems to be the cace with this one. she has brown on her legs,a bit on her chest, the sides of her face and the two spots above her eyes.

[emmetteabrakai]

I'm no expert but my black and white dog came from two Tri Colored parents and was the only B/W pup in the litter, there was a red merle and tris but no other B/W. You would have to find out the colors of the sire and dam of the parents etc... to make sure.

andrea D.

[CollieKat]

That pup is definitely a tri colour BC. Its very possible that 2 Black and white Bc's have a coloured litter s one or more of the parents may carry the tri gene. Not to be rude or anything but if you dont know this simple fact about colour in BC's why exactly are you breeding?

[Caroline]

Ok, I'll bite, why did you breed these dogs? I am curious.

Thanks,

Caroline

[SoloRiver]

Andrea,

 

A merle cannot come from two tri parents. Are you sure about this? Was one of the parents a merle with very little merling?

[Pipedream Farm]

Tri pup.

 

Lift the pups' tails; tan or brown hair around the butt indicates tri color. The tri color may become more prominate with age and may be found in other locations too. The photo shows tan/brown in typical locations: cheak, possibly inside the ears, leg (two locations), and eye brows.

 

Mark

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

Hi Melanie,

 

In shelties I have seen merles come from "apparent" tris. The one dog looked like a tri but was in fact a merle. After the breeder's surprise (very responsible person so the litter did not have multiple sires)she checked the young dog out hair by hair and found that what she thought was a very small white body spot was indeed a merle spot. Thereafter, the dog bred true as a merle-he was already registered as a black tri and I don't know how that was fixed.

 

Edited to add: Tris cannot be born to 2 B/W (or any other color except B/W for that matter)in Shelties, it's recessive and is called a Bi-Factoring gene. But B/W can be born of 2 Tris or 2 sables (or tri & sable) that carry the BiFactoring gene.

 

Interesting that BCs are different but I understand that they have more variety of color genes than shelties and rough collies.

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

This is one of your cocker pups? CUTE! I agree with Mark, the best way to tell on infants (except you have the other markings already noted) is their butts.

[juliepoudrier]

Debbie,

The cockers belong to a different person (tessa_s212). This person (tessthepest) has bred a litter of border collies, one of which appears to be a tri.

 

J.

[Eileen Stein]

>

 

Andrea, this really isn't possible in border collies, because the tri is recessive. Two B&W parents can have tri offspring, but two tri parents cannot have B&W offspring. Could there have been some mislabeling at some point?

[emmetteabrakai]

Hi Guys,

As I was reading this I had to think back over 17 years ago. My black and white dog had the very slighest amount of different colored "darker" white on his hind legs, above his white stockings. And under his tail, but not over his eyes.Could he have actully been a tri but so dilute as to not have been redily noticeable. Especially to a some one who had no clue I did wonder about it over the years. I only saw his dam once and thought she was tri colored, I was apperently mistaken . Or he really was a very dilute tri him self. He was a gift so I never saw the parents after that. Thanks for the infomation and setting me straight.

Andrea D.

[Eileen Stein]

If your dog had "darker white" under his tail, my guess is that he was a tri. The tan markings vary a lot in intensity and amount, so it can be somewhat inconspicuous. I can't recall ever seeing light coloring under the tail of a dog who wasn't a tri.

[emmetteabrakai]

Well then that settles it, I can't argue with genetics. Thanks I'm always open to learning whats possible and what's not.Though I miss my Emmette he was the dog of my heart.

Andrea D.

[SQinAZ]

I found this thread interesting, because Beck has a brownish area under one ear, and I asked my ex-BF (her last owner) if he had treated her ear with hydrogen peroxide or something that would have caused the black to turn brownish. He had no clue what I was talking about.

 

It's not very noticeable at all...but I can see the slight color difference (part of my job...1% shifts in color are very obvious to me) . Does this mean that Beck could be tri-colored instead of pure black and white?

 

I know nothing about where she was bred, as I am this darling's fourth owner and she was a rescue twice. Everything points to pure BC...so I assume she originated with a breeder somewhere. Any ideas about how to track her back to the breeder?

[juliepoudrier]

Beck's Mom,

B&W dogs fade in the sun (as do all animals). What you are seeing is where the black pigment has faded and the underlying red pigment is showing through. It's very common.

 

There are tris that you would never know are tris just by a quick glance, but they all have that ligher/tan hair under their tails.

 

J.

[NancyO]

When I had pups 3 years ago, both parents were b/w, mother had alot of tri's in her pedigree. When pups were born, 3 of us checked closely under the tail to see if any were tri's, none was apparent. As the pups grew, the male obviously was tri, markings on face, legs and under and on tail, one bitch has very very minor tan markings on hind legs. Others were b/w.

 

Found it interesting that one b/w bitch developed one blue eye at around 4 weeks of age. No apparent differnce in eye color before that.

 

Nancy o

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The same thing happened in Jen's litter. Two B/W parents but plenty of tris in pedigree. She had one littermate that was tri but just about as minimal as you could get without being non-existant, and in fact no one saw it at the time. The white under the tail was hard to spot because at the time the pup was really high white anyway - had white points running all over. And the tan points weren't apparent until, I think, after we were splitting up the pups (it may have been Laura who spotted the marks). Wick's tri points are still hard to see. No other pups were tri, but one had a blue eye, which was such a deep sea blue color that you couldn't see it until the eye color started changing.

[Rave]

I still remember that! Steve was describing her for Nancy to record for the papers and I commented she was a tri... he had to take a second look just to make sure...LOL.

 

The brown on Wick's face is very slight (just light cheek marks and a little on her ears), but her back legs are marked with a lot of deep pretty brown.