CL Test

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've heard the CL DNA test has finally been developed and is now available.

 

It's an interesting issue because it's been considered a "show dog" disease. I have my own theories about why it is more evident among the show bred lines. However, I was wondering whether there is a general theory among working folks. What the conformation culture says is that we are basically ignoring the signs and therefore we DO have the disease. It's hard for me to hear that and wonder how ignorant and mean to our dogs, they think we are, but that's a topic for another discussion.

 

I realize I'll have to "bump" this next week most likely but I thought I'd get this out there while the issue is "hot". My question is, would you test? the occurance even among the show dogs is such that they've only indentified a total of 30 carrier dogs. Seems producing CL is drifting into the "struck-by-lightening" range.

[2 Devils]

I know that some sport/AKC breeders feel that the working dog lines are what introduced many of these health issues into the show lines. I actually had someone tell me that a few months back. I let the issue drop. I was not getting suckered into that discussion.

[Northof49]

If you check the CL pedigrees here

http://www.mybcsite.com/bccnswwebfiles/clpedigrees.htm

 

You will see that these "show lines" are tightly linebred.

[Northof49]

you can checke out CL pedigrees here

 

http://www.mybcsite.com/bccnswwebfiles/clpedigrees.htm

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Yes, that's part of my theory. The other is that the disease becomes acute after the age most show dogs are first bred after being "finished." Working dogs tend to be bred later - or they used to anyway - since it takes three or years to fully train a dog.

[Journey]

I think it's more related to "how" they are bred. There is some serious line breeding - in breeding among them. They say it started with a "working" dog, but has it been "created" so to speak based on breeding practices? With relatively few knowns before the DNA test, suprises were few but given in some cases. I doubt the age they are bred is a major factor, the dogs die or are PTS due to the severity of the disease before they are 2 years.

 

Karen

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

They used to breed the conformation dogs before they were two. That's the key time period, when the disease emerged and before it was identified in Australia.

[juliepoudrier]

Originally posted by brookcove2:

My question is, would you test? the occurance even among the show dogs is such that they've only indentified a total of 30 carrier dogs. Seems producing CL is drifting into the "struck-by-lightening" range.

Becca,

To answer your question, unless I had reason to believe there was a problem in a particular dog or bloodline, no I would not test. And since I'm not one to breed an untrained/unproven dog, any clinical signs would be quite evident before the dog was ever bred, so testing would seem rather irrelevant (i.e., it's not as if the symptoms could go unnoticed, unlike, say, HD). In any case, I've never heard of CL in anything but show lines out of New Zealand/Australia, so I think one would be safe to assume that at least in strictly working-bred border collies, getting a dog with CL truly is in the struck by lightning category of health issues to worry about.

 

J.

[Tassie]

In Oz, it?s hoped that a DNA test will be available later this year. What I read last night from one of the key researchers here is that the gene responsible for CL in Border Collies is the same as that responsible for Batten?s disease in children, so they?re hoping to get some cross-over benefits ? man?s best friend again.

 

The expression of the disease seems to occur between 18 months and 2 ? 2.5 years, so the recommendations here are not to breed before 2.5 years- and as has been said, working breeders are unlikely to want to breed before then anyway. However, that just deals with affecteds. The real problem, and what the test will hopefully identify, is with the carriers. The recommendations among ANKC folks here is not knowingly to double up carriers even as far back as 5 or 6 generations.

 

It appears that it is true that there is no mild form of CL among affecteds. As has been said, all affected dogs have been euthanised before3 years ? it?s cruel to allow them to live longer.

 

Over here, I haven?t heard of any concern about CL among working dog folks. It seems confined to the show lines. So I'd say the 'struck by lightning' thing for working bred folks is pretty right.

[Bill Fosher]

I'd say it's more like "struck by lightning while sitting at a poker table with four strangers who all share your birthday and you've just been dealt an ace-high straight flush."

 

It has never been known to happen in the US or UK outside of the Oz and Kiwi show lines.

 

They like to say that it had to have come from a working dog, but that's simply not true. It is a mutation that occurred somewhere in their breeding, and their concentration, early breeding, and line breeding have allowed it to multiply.

[skyborderline]

What is CL disease?

[Tassie]

Here's a link to a page which has some good clear info. Hope it works.

http://www.bccnsw.com/

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Bumping as promised, now everyone's back. So far, consensus is, occurance being in the "struck by lightning" range, testing would not be sensible.

[Eileen Stein]

I totally agree. It would be like being struck by lightning when lightning has never struck anyone on your continent before.

[Shelby Kennels]

I can't imagine breeding a bitch prior to 3 years of age..so, no I would not test.

 

What does surprise me is the number of known carriers listed on the site. Having a friend deep in the AKC show world it is amazing what lengths they go in hiding genetic problems to "finish" a dog and make money breeding them. I am not generalizing, as I know some are very open (such as my friend) - but I know from conversations with her regarding other breeders and lines most are not.

 

I gotta add.... Pawtails Hot Buttered ????? Well, if you gotta live with that name I guess it's a good thing he has exceptional expression and good reach.