Vet Fear and Meds

[beachdogz]

Hello Everyone

This has been an ongoing problem from puppy hood.  Parker is awful at the vet.  He is basically panicked (trust issue) with anyone examining him.  He is also like this at the groomer.  I had to stop taking him to the groomer and do it myself - and even then he is hard to keep still and get anything accomplished.  I trim them every week and use treats and I swear he is getting worse (you would think it would get better as time goes on.)  Feet and nails have always been an issue.  I honestly do not think this is a developed behavior problem - I really feel he is hardwired this way. 

He is wonderful with people - loves everybody.  He is not afraid of people.  He does not like to be restrained.  He does not like to be examined.  Last year for his shot, he jumped and screamed before she even put the needle in.  Luckily she has a sense of humor about it since she grew up with BCs. 

We have an appointment coming up and I am dreading it.  So my question is, has anyone used any kind of meds (natural or not) that actually works to calm the dog.  I have had a few friends who used the cbd chews and said they did nothing to calm their dogs. 

I anxiously await your input.

thanks

Bonnie

[D'Elle]

I assume you have tried everything....counter-conditioning and desensitization and so on. Taking him to the vet office, just the parking lot, giving treats, then leaving? Taking him just inside the door, treats, leave? All of that?

As for the nails........Using a quiet grinder tool on the nails? A scratch board?

(Just mentioning things. I am assuming you have probably tried all of them)

 I wonder if you could call the vet ahead of time and ask for their recommendations. If they cannot suggest anything OTC maybe you could get a prescription for a mild sedative that you could give to your dog before you go. 

CBD doesn't work for everyone, human or dog, so I won't suggest that. There are all kinds of calming things you can buy, but I have never seen one actually make any difference in a dog who was genuinely anxious. I think you will need to get a prescription from the vet.

[Journey]

What is the appointment for? Is it mandatory or just a want? Yes, some come hardwired for "do not touch my feet" as well as a restraint fear. You  have to learn to work around it or let them think it's something else! Maybe visit the vet, feed him his meals there, inside, outside and with them giving him his bowl. I just have to ask though is it really necessary..the visit that is. 

[beachdogz]

Hi D'Elle and Journey

Thanks for your responses.  I had started taking him to the vet office for de-sensitizing visits, however, I stopped when I realized the office itself was not a bother to him.  He's fine when I take him into the office. He's happy to go greet everyone when they come in the examining room.   It's the exam that panics him.  And unfortunately, we can't practice that in the office.  I am thinking of asking people at scent work class do an "exam" on him like in the conformation ring where a judge goes over the dog.  They are all seasoned dog owners/trainers.  I will see how that goes.  I have been trying at home to get him used to exams from me and pressure on paws for nail grooming. 

Nails are a work in progress.  Peanut butter and/or high value treats don't help that one.  I bought the quietest grinder. Scratch board was not efficient enough.  I have settled for a sanding block and sandpaper, being careful to just do the nail and avoid scratching the pad.  He will tolerate that with treats.  And then sometimes I sneak one clip in.  Sometimes I sneak the grinder in.  Going for one nail each time I do them, but sometimes I can't even get one.  Not the best solution, but it at least gets me somewhere. 

I discussed this with the vet last year.  My question and concern is what happens when he has to go in for something serious.  This is why I don't want to skip vet visits.  I want to try to work this out before that happens. The vet suggested that in the future,  we do not have him wait in the exam room (I rarely use the waiting room;  never have if I don't have to.)  She suggested that he be taken care of immediately once in the exam room.  No waiting for someone to come in.  She touched on meds being a possibility, but we never got deep into that since it was the end of the visit last year when we were discussing it.  I am going to call her and see if she has any med suggestions.  That was why I wondered if anyone had tried anything that worked. 

They have never suggested a muzzle (nor did the groomer ever suggest that) - and I want to try to avoid using that on my dogs unless absolutely needed.  How does the community feel about muzzling?  I worry with this breed, muzzling would be traumatic and maybe make a situation worse in the dogs mind.  I think they would be even more panicked with a muzzle.  But maybe I am wrong about that.  I have never had to muzzle a dog before. Can anyone give me input on that??

As always, thank you so much for your valued input.  🙂

 

[Journey]

I'm still of the opinion to pick your battles wisely. I am not adverse to a muzzle (vet cloth ones not baskets), have 2 that I recommend they do muzzle just because they can reflex bite, not aggressive, not intentional. It's easier to be safe.  This is for situations that are serious too though, not regular visits. If (or when if ever) something serious does happen imo it's better to deal with it as a one off rather than stress/traumatize on a regular basis in an effort to get him over it. Chances are he will never "get over it" and that's ok too. Nails are a peev of mine, mine know, lay there and be done with it or I will do them every.single.day. That said, I had one that took the challenge and won  It's a hard call as to how far to push and if pushing is right..Can they do the visit outside, next to the car or in it if it's a van?

[beachdogz]

I would be interested to see the kind of muzzle you would use - just in case I would ever need one.  I would never know what to look for or which kind to get. 

[Journey]

something like this.

 

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/rsc-lg-nylon-blk-muzzle-2296001?store_code=1574&mr:device=c&mr:adType=plalocal&cm_mmc=PSH|GGL|CCY|CCO|PM|0|axsvnXfjRWFFwpetHmZu75|||0|0|||21467366052&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5qC2BhB8EiwAvqa41p9ctsUPsni-7L2u-JNLctHdxMyxXm8xGi-Ke4VYmcYyEN6a5NhuOxoCo_4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[beachdogz]

Thank you!!

[beachdogz]

As an update, the vet office recommended gabapenten, trazadone  or a combination the night before, and then a couple hours before the appointment. 

[diane allen]

I have a 12 yr old with a similar reaction to vets and exams.  She wasn't terrible until about age 8 or 9.  Then for no reason I know of, things got worse.

I got a muzzle similar to the one linked above.  Of course, we did lots of 'practice' with it (on for 1 second, treat, etc.).  I think it is FAR FAR better to have your own (well, your dog's own) muzzle, vs. the ones the vet keeps.  I know they have to, and sometimes it's unexpected that it's needed.  But I think having one's own dog "smells" on the fabric would help reduce yet another anxiety

Re nails - I found some super heavy nail files (no idea what they're for - maybe artificial nails?) at my local drugstore.  I can file the dog's nails - but it's hard!  My hand holding the nail cramps up, so sometimes it's only one foot or even just a couple of nails at a time.  This dog would dislocate a joint getting away from clippers, and almost as bad with a Dremel.  But filing is tolerable.  Go figure!

diane

[beachdogz]

Thank you Diane. You have some really, really good points there.  I'm thinking it might be a good idea to do some practice just in case the day comes when we need it. 

[beachdogz]

So today was the dreaded Vet appt.  I called the vet a day ahead and we discussed a plan.  I would not be called into the bldg until they were ready for me in the exam room.  This would eliminate the nervous, long wait until someone comes in.  When I went into the bldg, the Dr came over to the scale (outside the room) and started loving him up.  After the weigh-in, we all walked into the little exam room together and I sat down on the chair.  Parker immediately put his paws up on my lap, and she began examining him while I fed him hot dogs (something he never gets.)  Then she gave him a break and they bonded again.  Then he was back in my lap as she continued checking teeth, etc.  And when she gave him his shot, he never even felt it as he was still in my lap and getting more hot dogs.  Then he was released and he went directly to her to get more loving.  So it was way better than I had anticipated.  We are going to work with him weekly at scent class on what I would describe as a "stand" like in the conformation ring when the judge goes over the dog. 

Update on nails:  I never thought I'd see this day.  I was able to do all his front nails with a grinder.  Not ground down;  just a touch/release multiple times on all nails.  I had been using the sanding block and doing a few nails at a time (plus treats) for months now.  I bought a "Lucky Tail" nail grinder on amazon - advertised to be quiet.  I've had it since March, but couldn't get them used to it so I put it away.  But the sand block seems to have paved the way.  Started out with 1 or 2 nails with the grinder on low.  I was so excited!!  Cautiously optimistic that this may be the turning point.  🙂
 

[D'Elle]

Dropping back in very late......sorry, but I haven't been here in a while.

I am with Diane that it is always far better to use your own muzzle when one is needed. And to me it is far better to use a muzzle....one that the dog has been well trained to accept....than to use medication. For one thing, the muzzle comes off faster. For another, everyone is more relaxed when there's a muzzle on the dog because now the dog can't bite, and that relaxation of course is picked up by the dog, who often then can also relax more and everything just goes better. I used a muzzle with my young dog at first because he was so reactive, and honestly I think that he was a lot less likely to try to bite anyone just because he could tell how much more relaxed I was.

But it sounds as if you have the issue well in hand, Beachdogz. And good for you and good for your dog!

My young dog no longer needs a muzzle at the vet, and behaves very well. The nail trimming is still a work in progress for us. He will let me clip them, but I would so much rather use a grinder so I never cut too close, and we are still working on getting used to that. Very encouraging, of course, to read about another dog's progress on that, so thanks for posting about it.