Mild illness?

[TxMom]

Livi's been a little off today, and I'm wondering how worried I should be. She's the first dog I've had since childhood, so I really don't have any previous experience to go on. All I've got to go on is the mommy instincts I have for the kids, and of course the human-dog comparison only goes so far.

 

Last night Livi seemed normal but had a bit of a soft stool while we were on a walk. Not runny, but soft. Unfortunately it was dark enough that while I could see to pick it up, I didn't notice anything about color or other characteristics. She ate her dinner, did her bedtime potty trip, took her bedtime treat, etc. This morning I let her out to go potty then put her in her crate for breakfast. When I went to let her out so we could play for a bit before we had to leave for church, she'd only eaten a few bites of her breakfast. She went outside with me, jumped on me a little, sniffed around, etc. Not as crazy as usual for her first real activity of the day, but nothing that worried me. When we left I crated her with the rest of her breakfast, figuring it just felt too early with the time change and she'd finish it while we were gone. When we got home she'd eaten some more, but there was still food left in the bowl. I don't overfeed her, and leftovers never happen. I went out with her to let her go potty and throw a toy for her. She bounced around a few times when we first stepped outside, but settled down pretty quickly. I threw the toy and she took a few steps toward it and then came back. Usually she's good for several rounds of fetch, especially with that particular toy. And usually when she gives up on fetch/tug, it's because she wants to run and sniff around the yard, not just sit next to me on the porch. After lunch we had some yardwork to do, so she stayed in the yard with us while we were working. Normally after a morning of being crated she's pretty exuberant... but she was just lying down on the porch or in the grass. Not in any apparent distress, but we were raking leaves and normally she gets the zoomies and dashes through the piles repeatedly at top speed. At some point she got up and found a spot to poop. She appeared to be having trouble getting the job done (it took a while and involved more waddling around than usual), then she dragged her bottom on the ground briefly afterward. Again the poop was soft (maybe a little more so than last night, but not runny) and this time there was some (bright red) blood on it. The poop itself wasn't dark or tarry or anything, just soft. The rest of the day she's been very quiet... at least relative to her usual exuberant 8-month-old-Border-Collie self. She's perked up and shown interest in things -- barked at a few birds, wags her tail whenever anyone notices her, hopped up in my lap when I was sitting in a chair outside, etc. But she hasn't wanted to play, she spent an hour or two this afternoon just lying on the floor, and occasionally I've thought she looks just a touch uncomfortable. She is drinking water, and she's peeing. I haven't seen the pee itself, but the frequency and length of time she takes seem normal. Gums are pink, no excessive panting or anything. She's just subdued. Really, she's behaved like a mature adult with a solid off switch, but her on switch is broken. At dinner time tonight I gave her the kibble that was left in her bowl and a handful of steamed rice... figured it might be soothing. She ate it all, and I haven't offered more yet. Oh, and late this afternoon she hacked/threw up a bit of something mucousy looking. Not much at all, and it wasn't kibble. Actually (sorry if this is TMI) it looked a lot like what my daughter threw up on Friday, which was the result of a lot of sinus drainage down her throat upsetting her stomach -- basically a bunch of snot. (And if it's worth anything, the kids have all been sick for the last week or so: a virus for the oldest and croup [which can be viral] for the younger two, with assorted bronchitis/sinus infection/ear infections to follow it up.)

 

If she were one of the kids, I'd assume she had a mild bug and I'd have her rest on the couch with a book, a bottle of water, maybe some crackers or toast, and I'd expect her to be feeling better in a day or two. At this point I wouldn't bother calling the doctor because she's hydrated, she's resting, she's not miserable, and odds are good (in the kid comparison) that the doctor couldn't do anything for her anyway.

 

Is this probably just a puppy version of that sort of mild bug the kids get, or should I be more worried? Again, sorry for the kid comparison. It's just all I have to work from.

[Gideon's girl]

I would assume she ate something that didn't agree with her. A bug wouldn't make it more difficult to pass a stool. If she continues to do any vomiting or if she has diarrhea that gets watery, I would have her seen. Otherwise, keep watching. See if she has any more blood in the stool or passes anything that she shouldn't have eaten. If she is willing to eat, then that may help her to pass whatever, but I wouldn't put much effort into bribing her to eat, in case her body is telling her that it would be better off empty. Taking her temp wouldn't be a bad idea and a round of probiotics wouldn't either, just in case it's just an upset stomach.

[gcv-border]

I think your instincts are right and something is *off*. I wouldn't be rushing her to the vet, but a close watch is warranted.

 

I just saw Gideon's girl's response and she gave the same advice I was going to post. I would watch her, take her temp (morning and night) and hope that I don't see any more blood in her stool (which would increase the worry level for me). Maybe substitute half her kibble meal with plain cooked rice.

[TxMom]

Thank you!

 

It's possible she did eat something she shouldn't have. If nothing else, yesterday we went to an event at Bass Pro Shops and she got some treats that may have disagreed with her. For that matter, maybe the general excitement threw her off (we didn't stay long, but it was busier than I anticipated). I'm keeping an eye out for more vomiting or serious diarrhea or anything else weird in her stool... and watching her water consumption as well.

 

After I posted this she started sniffing around the kitchen and under the table for crumbs, so I offered her some dinner and she ate it promptly. Hopefully we won't regret it. I'll see if I can't get some probiotics tomorrow; we need to run to the pet store for more food anyway.

[chrisandgabe]

Ditto to all of the advice above. I also usually call my vet's office in vague situations like this, to give them a heads up that something is going on, and get some guidance on when they would want me to come in vs. treat at home. My vets have always been pretty good about saying "try x, y, and z and if you see a, b, or c call me back and come in". I hope she feels better soon!

[GentleLake]

^^ This. I was going to suggest this very thing.

 

Hope all works out well for Livi.

[TxMom]

I was thinking I'd call the vet this morning like Chrisandgabe suggested, but she seems much improved. She ate most (but not quite all) of her breakfast and seems playful and mischievous again -- trying to steal the kids' stuffed animals, running around the yard, chasing toys. When she pooped this morning it was noticeably firmer and she didn't seem to have any trouble. No blood or anything else out of the ordinary. Still drinking and peeing normally. At this point I think y'all are right that something she ate disagreed with her. I'll keep an eye on her, and we'll keep her home until I'm sure everything's resolved (lower stress, and just in case it's anything contagious), but I think she's on the mend.

 

Thanks again for the quick responses. I really didn't think it was an emergency situation, but on a Sunday when I can't call and check it helped my peace of mind substantially to get some more experienced thoughts on it.

 

I'll run to the pet store in a little bit and see about some probiotics, both to settle any remaining digestive issues and to keep on hand for next time. I kept meaning to get some to keep around and didn't do it... guess that'll teach me! But at least we had steamed rice with dinner last night so I had some of that handy.

[gcv-border]

Re: probiotics. I keep a box of Fortiflora on hand. It is a powdered probiotic, packaged individually in single serving size. I use it when I think the one of the dogs has an upset system or I will just add it to their meal when it has been a while since I last gave it (to keep the GI system 'healthy'). At least once per month, sometimes more often.

 

The box I have on hand had an expiration date ~one year from the date of purchase (of course it will depend on the vet/store that stocks it and how fast the stock turns over).

 

A little pricey, but highly recommended. I bought my first box from my vet, but since, I have purchased it for a lower price from chewy.com (usually in conjunction with a food order)

 

If you think you won't use it all before the expiration date, find a friend who would be interested in splitting a box.

[diane allen]

Sounds like things are resolving adequately - yay!!

 

In the future: whenever a dog is acting "off" like this, particularly related to eating/not eating/soft stools, the best thing to do is NOT feed the dog, for up to 24 hours. No, they will not die! ;-) It just gives their GI system a chance to recover.

 

I don't do it on a regular basis, but for one reason or another, probably once a month, my dogs miss one meal. If they're doing fine, the second meal of the day shows up on time. But I really wouldn't have a problem skipping that one.

 

Another good thing to have on hand for "scavengers" with diarrhea is Endosorb. They're tablets (also, I believe in liquid) with a form of clay that absorbs toxins in the gut.

 

Probiotics are good to have on hand as well.

 

BTW, blood in a dog's stool isn't nearly as scary as it is in ours! Obviously, it's something to keep an eye on. But their system can bleed a bit without meaning anything terribly serious.

 

 

diane

[GentleLake]

In the future: whenever a dog is acting "off" like this, particularly related to eating/not eating/soft stools, the best thing to do is NOT feed the dog, for up to 24 hours. No, they will not die! ;-) It just gives their GI system a chance to recover.

 

Good advice for an adult dog but most people and vets I've talked to don't advise this for young puppies.

 

With very young puppies you might skip one meal. For older puppies maybe a 12 hour fast. I don't recall how old Livi is, but it sounds like she instinctively knew to do that herself, which is why she didn't want to eat.

 

BTW, blood in a dog's stool isn't nearly as scary as it is in ours! Obviously, it's something to keep an eye on. But their system can bleed a bit without meaning anything terribly serious.

 

A little bit of bright red blood (even in humans) usually isn't cause for concern. If it's still bright red it's from irritation at the end of the intestines and usually clears up quickly. If there's a lot of it or it persists, then it's time to have it checked, but short term, smaller amounts are rarely cause for concern.

 

Blood from further up in the digestive system is more dangerous. Because it ill have undergone some digestion, it'll be black and tarry. I seem to recall your saying that hers wasn't like that -- good to know you know what to watch out for.

 

Happy to hear Livi's bouncing back from whatever it was.

[TxMom]

The brand our pet store had was OptaGest. It's a little foil packet, one is good for two doses. Not cheap, but not horribly expensive. I used to make homemade yogurt and I've been thinking I ought to get back into that routine. If I do, it would be less expensive to just give her some fresh yogurt regularly.

 

Livi is about 8 months, give or take a little (don't know her birthdate). Skipping a meal didn't worry me too much, but at her age I wasn't too sure about enforcing a fast. Next time I'll keep it in mind, allowing for her age.

 

As far as the blood, among the five of us humans in the family there's occasionally been a bit of bleeding due to minor damage from constipation or particularly unpleasant diarrhea. Google seemed to say the same could be the case for a dog, as long as there wasn't evidence of blood IN the stool. I did check her gums throughout the day, though, as I figured internal bleeding would likely leave them a little pale.

 

So far today she still seems to be herself, so I'm still watching but I think she's ok.

[GentleLake]

I give my dogs kefir, but lately I've been seeing things saying that the best probiotics for dogs are not milk based (as well as being dog specific and not ones made for humans, which I already knew).

 

Makes sense, since when would they have the opportunity to be getting milk products if we weren't giving them to them?

 

I want to look into it some more.

[chrisandgabe]

Gabe gets this on his food every morning after a long stretch of antibiotics shortly after we got him. The container is a year's worth of daily doses for a dog his size. He's had very few GI issues, except for an incident with some chicken sandwiches.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Probiotic-Miracle-Probiotics-Dogs-servings/dp/B002RGU0AA

[kingfisher7151]

GentleLake, I just got my kefir grains, the dogs will get kefir, damnit!!!

 

I also do homemade yogurt, which they gulped up readily. (I give batches to my parents, I don't have multiple dogs.)

 

I'm glad Livi is feeling better, sounded like a small bug. I also readily fast Keeper when he's having problems, though I wouldn't fast a puppy.

[jvw]

I keep Proviable-DC capsules on hand for those irregular times for the dogs. I have also used Fortiflora but prefer the Proviable