12 weeks and already a superstar!

[ourwully]

I just watched a utube video of a 12 week old Border Collie named Wish. I would put the link here but I am not sure how to do that. Maybe someone else could do that. Anyway, at 12 weeks Wish is doing all the tricks I have taught Juno in over two years. I remember when Juno was 12 weeks. It was all I could do to keep her in control, never mind have her heeling, high fiving, and weaving! I wonder if Wish is just one of those dogs that is calm and focussed right from the start. Later in the video you see Wish with her mother. This made me wonder if the mother's presence made Wish easier to deal with. Although I enjoyed the video and give full credit to Wish and her owner, I also wonder if this type of video leaves prospective owners with the impression that Border Collies are easy to train. I am not sure where I got this impression, but when I got Juno I thought training was going to be easy. Two years later I would say that Border Collies are very trainable and can learn a great deal, but I wouldn't say that it was easy.

 

Bill

 

[CptJack]

Priorities again, with some experience.

Molly did a ton of tricks at 12 weeks old - because I like trick training and was doing tons with another dog. That didn't mean they were all perfect, all just on verbal cues, and translated to (for instance) not chasing the cat, chewing the furniture, mouthing people or pulling on leash. It just meant she knew a bunch of tricks.

Other people are busy teaching house manners and don't want to move on until they have those. I just did the silly tricks (spin, twirl, paw, leg weaves, cop-cop, retrieving a rolled ball, roll over, whatever) ANYWAY.

 

I'm really not sure I'd consider it unfair. There are videos of all kinds of tiny puppies doing this stuff. One of my favorites is of a yorkie puppy, actually.

[Solo33]

I was on my way to having Solo learn a lot of things. I bet I even saw the video you mentioned because I was thinking, WOW! I will do all of that with Solo! I had all the videos bookmarked, short sessions here and there, etc. But then ... I realized he had zero respect for my children and very little for me, so on the advice of his breeder, we changed course and worked on showing him what his place was in our family and stopped the trick training for now. I'm looking forward to getting back into it, but first Solo needs to learn the household rules (basically that he doesn't rule over us!).

[Root Beer]

I was one of those people who said that if I ever raised another puppy, I would train all kinds of tricks right away.

I didn't end up doing that.

 

When I had the puppy in front of me, I realized that wasn't our path. Instead, we played A LOT. We hung out. I taught foundation things like nose touches to targets and feet up on platforms, but I didn't actually train any tricks when he was a very young puppy.

I don't regret it. In his case, I think it was better for him to develop and grow up before we got into that. He loves that kind of work now. As a puppy he just wanted to have fun with hollee balls and things. So . . . that's what we did.

 

Of course, we still play a lot!!

[gonetotervs]

When I brought home my last puppy (after total travel time of 30 hours due to some really horrible delays), I was determined to give him plenty of time to settle in. Well he'd been good as gold wearing his tight Sherpa bag all through flights and airport delays, not to mention traffic jams, etc. and when we got home, he decided to let out all that pent up energy. So we got out the clicker, and did clicker training of both tricks and doggie zen games to keep him and me both sane. The self-control games and teaching my pup to settle down were the more important skills I taught early, but tricks are good for teaching cooperation and communication.

[Cass C]

Just for clarification that's wish's aunt not her mom, which is mentioned in another video.

 

Like others have said it has to do with what you focused on. I did a little bit of obedience with a ton of tricks for fun and Lily had quite the trick library at 12 weeks. It's impressive, but doesn't necessarily make the dog unusually trainable.

[Maralynn]

Tricks are a big thing right now. Lots of people are doing the whole lots of tricks from an early age. For the most part it's a different strokes for different folks thing. I don't think that it really gives people an unrealistic view of the breed (or dogs in general). I do really hope that I doesn't cause people to pressure themselves and their pup too early. I've seen a few people a bit worried that their pup isn't the next wonder pup. But if the person and the pup are having fun then it's cool.

 

I focused more on self control games with Kolt. We did some tricks but I was more interested in focusing on foundation work. I didn't want him to get to focused on me from an early age because he needed to learn to work independently for SAR work.

[Shandula]

Keep in mind, the person who owns Wish and Splash is a professional dog trainer! I always say I'm going to work on tons of tricks, and instead I always end up focusing on obedience, manners, and housebreaking. As a result, people are a little surprised my dogs don't know more tricks. I'm pretty confident in replying that they might not know as many tricks, but they come when called, are very obedient, and are great dogs.

 

Tricks are something we do for fun, I'm never really that concerned about them. Different strokes.

[urge to herd]

Hmm, Bill - 'border collies are easy to train'. I'd say that's true, and that there's an important corollary - sometimes they learn something other than what the Human thinks they are teaching. Always a surprise to the Human.

 

Ruth and Gibbs

[ourwully]

Yes, that corollary, is always surfacing. I remember the first time I tried using a clicker to teach Juno to stop jumping on my wife's chair. When she realized she got a treat for getting off the chair, she started jumping up even more.

 

I didn't realize that Wish's trainer was a professional but I should have guessed that. I wonder if professionals ever get dogs that are just so hyper from the start that even they can't get things on track.

 

Bill

[GentleLake]

I wonder if professionals ever get dogs that are just so hyper from the start that even they can't get things on track.

 

If they do, I'm guessing we just don't hear about them.

 

Actually I have one like that who I'd love to turn over full time to a professional trainer.

[Cass C]

My trainer admitted that she once had a border collie that she couldn't handle. This was years ago, in the eighties if I understood her right. She was doing competitive obedience and could not keep the dog focused for anything. She ended up giving the dog to a small ranch owner who trained the dog on stock and she said they kept in contact and the border collie ended up being a great stock dog. That experience actually turned her off to the breed and onto Belgians, but she's actually considering giving them another try after spending time with Lily and a few other BCs. So we'll have to see how that plays out.

[Sekah]

Puppies are such sponges that I think videos like the one you're referring to speak more to the skill and priorities of the owner rather than the trainability of the puppy.

 

Generally I think that people don't give puppies enough credit in their ability to learn novel behaviours and control their bodies. I'm a big proponent of trick training and I feel like it's basically the best thing ever; through trick training you can create the skills a dog needs to successfully navigate in human society.

[ourwully]

Sekah - I think you are right about the puppy thing. Many years ago I brought home a beautiful Husky pup who was quite bidable as a very young pup. I knew a person who trained Police dogs so I asked him for some advice and he replied that training shouldn't start till six months. I think he meant formal training for police work but I took it literally. Other than puppy classes I didn't do much with the Husky until six months. I had the Husky for 14 wonderful years but he couldn't be trusted to follow any command so his freedom was really restricted. I wonder if I had started training him right away if things would have been different.

Bill

[Sekah]

I think the "don't train 'til 6 months" is a vestige of the days when training used to be quite punitive and harsh. With greater focus these days on channeling behaviour into something productive and teaching via mostly positive reinforcement, the sky is the limit and you can begin right away (if you want to).

[GentleLake]

Agreed that this is an old school recommendation.

 

But Huskies and related breeds can difficult to train reliably -- it's more an attitude thing in that they're not as human focused as some other breeds and extremely independent -- and seem to have an insatiable urge to roam. My border collie/spitz-type mix was very different in this regard than any of the border collies I've lived with. As a result she also lived with a lot of necessary restrictions.

[alligande]

I love watching other people's dogs doing tricks, Sekahs videos are inspiring. But it is not a priority for me, my goals have always been to have a well mannered dog and the specific skills we need for agility. I am big into self control, waiting at doors, doggie zen games, leave it, stay etc etc none of these are flashy but realistically they are still tricks and taught like tricks.

I am a much better dog trainer now than 6 years ago when I got R as my first puppy, the first time I was not working with an adult rescue, and I loved working with his little spongy mind. I am sure the puppy I am on the hunt for will know loads of tricks evantually because I can train quicker and faster and not get bogged down and stuck so it's more fun.

I had a friends border collie staying and she had been trying to teach her how to put her paws on a balance cushion as part of a physio program, with 2 quick sessions, I had the paws on and another couple of sessions she was starting to pivot around the cushion, a few years ago I would not have been able to teach any dog how to that without a lot of effort and frustration on both our parts.

[renegadeviking]

My dog just learned to wave at 1.3 year old. My border collie can chase and kill rabbits at this age

[highway61]

A BC that will chase and kill rabbits...by design?

[herdcentral]

I cant say I am much into trick training. With my youngsters I playing shaping exercise with them because I like the way it develops their learning behaviour, but I use it to get them doing perch work and early propioception work, driving to a toy and also self control work, sit, lie down etc but not trick work per se. My young cattle dog as a pup was probably the most driven to learn tricks and she took to shaping exercises like a mad woman lol. such laser focus and a enormous capacity to try out anything.