Bm128 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Tig had her first go on sheep the trainer and me in the round pen with the sheep Tig on the outside , she started out pretty hyper with her tail up and running mad but after a few minutes tail dropped and she started thinking ... Tig seemed to favour her away side she turned to the come by she wanted to dive in and bite . All in all pretty pleased for the first time .. Now for the problem , she's has some fear aggression going on I thought I had pretty under control .. I've tried multiply ways to no avail the trainer/breeder said I'm way to soft with her .. So i guess I'm going to have to get a little harder and get her to snap out of this .. Any suggestions much appreciated .. Would like to get her over this before I give her back to the trainer for two weeks of training ... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 What do you mean by some fear aggression? What triggers it? What does your dog do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Ditto to mum24dog's questions. Before you start getting "harder" on a fear aggressive dog, you might want to consider the repercussions that could have . . . like quite possibly increased aggression. If you give your dog a reason to fear you, she may just decide she has to protect herself even more vigorously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bm128 Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 By fear aggression I mean loud nasty barking.. These weren't total strangers and oviously dog people , just not a really acceptable behaviour. Which by no doubt is my fault not nipping it in the bud, the last thing I want is for her to bit someone . All though I don't think she wood.. By harder I by no means mean abusive , just a firmer and sterner correction for unwanted behaviour and positive reinforcement for the behaviour I want... Probably still clear as mud .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Barking is not hurting people, it is communicating. People who correct their dogs for barking end up with dogs who "bite without any warning." Don't correct the barking if it's based on fear, address the fear with counter conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I have a fear barker. She is by no means aggressive, but her bark sound that way. It's with people she doesn't know, particularly anyone coming into my house (even if I invite them). It helps if my other dog "approves" the stranger, though not totally. Once she gets to know people, she's all lovey-dovey with them. I don't correct her for this, but feel it is my responsibility to protect her, let her know that I will do that (which sometimes means putting myself between her and the other person/people), and give her something else to do - even a down will help. Good luck with yours. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Dear Ms. BM, Part of what you're dealing with is cultural. Barking dogs are anathema to sheepdog people who, unless their handler is running another dog on the course, see barking dogs as clear evidence that the owner/handler hasn't trained properly. I don't know how valid this is, but it's the culture you've just entered. I think it's pretty likely, you and your dog will adapt without specific training. If not, buy a bark collar. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bm128 Posted August 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Just heard back from the trainer , she had some positive things to say about Tig , that she did well and will improve quickly . Some things she wants me to work on before Tig goes with her foe a few weeks are : to control here fear barking and to teach her to e calm and control hyper behaviour .. So it's back to basics more crate time when she is being annoying, praise when being calm.. As for the barking I don't mind an alarm bark have to work on the constant barking . And yes Donald don't want me and Tig to be anathema to the sheep herding world ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I live with a fear barker and I now thank him for his bark, I want him alert barking at home or anywhere for that matter, makes me feel a lot safer having a big woofy dog with me. I will be driving back to the UK soon through Spain and France and the only reason my mother and husband aren't worried about me doing this again on my own is because I will have my dog with me. The same applies to the house I live in, not sure I would live here with the amount of time my husband travels for work if Rievaulx did not bark. Now to the control part, I simply praise him after the first bark, tell him he is a good boy and that's enough. If he knows I am comfortable, he stops barking, works well for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Barking is not hurting people, it is communicating. People who correct their dogs for barking end up with dogs who "bite without any warning." Don't correct the barking if it's based on fear, address the fear with counter conditioning. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 If you focus on teaching calm and self control the barking may greatly subside quite a bit on it's own. Dogs need tools to handle the world before they can, well, handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Dear Doggers, When sheepdogs bark when working they are either hyper or extraordinarily frustrated. One might have a dog bark the first or second time it worked sheep. Most sheepdogs won't ever bark during work after. Barking while working sheep has nothing to do with biting or not biting humans. That's an unrelated problem. I don't know whether sheepdog culture is or isn't wrong to deplore dogs that bark because they're bored, miss their owners or don't want anyone coming near their vehicle at trials but sheepdoggers do. It's considered rude. Last week at a trial I was told by men who routinely compete at cattledog trials that barking dogs are commonplace at such events but I wouldn't know. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think barking dogs are rude, rude, rude. I can't stand it! I get that some dogs bark out of fear. Such dogs need to be taught not to bark in ways that do not escalate their fears. I live in an apartment. There are people upstairs, and on one side of me. Random barking is not acceptable. I can't tell you how many conversations outside in my neighborhood are ruined by a leashed dog (Usually under 10 lbs.) that wants attention and seeks it with the canine equivalent of, "HEY!, HEY!, HEY!, HEY!, HEY!, HEY!" And the dog in a parked vehicle that throws itself at the windows, foaming and screaming at everyone passing by is an obnoxious idiot. (Sorry, bit harsh... really irritating )(Or at least their owner is.) I teach my dogs not to bark at all. Some say that this makes a dog useless as a watch dog. My experience is, that a sensible dog will bark if there is a good reason, and nothing will stop that. I don't stop my dogs from growling. It works just as well to alert me to a threat without shattering my eardrums and shredding my nerves. And I find that many people will ignore a barking dog, but a growling dog gets respect and space without annoying everyone in a 1/4 mile radius. If the dog feels that situation is urgent enough to bark, I simply tell them, "OK. Thank you. Quiet." and let them growl all they want. By teaching my dogs not to bark, I eliminate the nuisance of excess barking in a dog that has watch dog instincts, and for the dog that is "promiscuously friendly" and has no watch dog instincts, I don't have to listen to him at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bm128 Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes I agree non stop barking is rude , I'm ok with an alarm bark . This is why me and Tig are starting fresh , to calm her and show her that I have the situation under control .. She is only 10 months so not to late , should of started right from a pup but me over thinking worked more on other sheepdog traits .... ME BAD .. Yes Donald the first session on sheep she did let out one or two barks tail high in the air but after a minute tail dropped and not another yip out of her ... Then her next go not one bark .... Love watching them turn on .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 .. She is only 10 months so not to late , should of started right from a pup but me over thinking worked more on other sheepdog traits .... Oh, for goodness sakes! She's a baby! At 10 months she's not going to be socially perfect. My 11 month old met her first Great Dane the other day. It was just a big, gentle 6 month old puppy, but when it WOOFED at her to play - Nell screamed and ran backwards to the end of her leash. And she's not normally a fear-barker. So, if I saw someone's 10 month old pup being reactive, I wouldn't make a big deal about it. I'd take into account that it's a puppy, that it's feeling uncertain and out of its element and I'd presume that its person is working to help it understand its world. If your pup is truly experiencing fear, being harder on her is not the answer. Yes, by all means work with her to teach her calm and collection. Teach her that you are her safe place and that you'll protect her, and that if she sits quietly by your side, all will be well. She doesn't need to be punished, she needs to be taught an alternative behavior. You can't drive fear away. You can only train her, teach her and let maturity and time work its magic. Best of luck! ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Some dogs are simply more reactive especially when uncomfortable. Not unlike people, some you can see every emotion they are feeling others are stoic. I would take her reaction to being asked to go around sheep her least favorite way saying she is worried. I would put sheep in a small pen and her on a leash and walk with her around that way then ask her to do on her on own once she tells me she is more comfortable. Take it slow and let her tell you what she needs help with then help her. Let her know you are team. Same with her barking or unwanted behavior. Just help her when she is uncomfortable. Not baby her, just use your voice and body language to be reassuring and matter of fact. Sometimes is you get upset with a behavior that just makes it worse, it is throwing energy into the situation when you need calm confidence. Again let her know you are a team and you will take care of the problem she does not need to worry. Show her it is no big deal. I love crates and think all dogs should know how to be crated but they do not teach the dog how to handle situations outside the crate. I think it is much better to teach her to settle down laying next to you possibly on a leash to start rather than crating. If you ask yourself is crating just going to prevent the behavior or teach her what I would like then you have your answer if it will be helpful. I have an 8 mo old that is timid and fearful with people she does not know. A older large male friend stopped the other day so I had her in a crate in the room we were in. She barked when he entered but settled down on her own. After about 30 min I let her out. She was quiet and still and showed me she was worried. I let another dog into the room who wanted attention and walked over to him to be petted. Ahh that did it - would not want to be left out of getting a attention. She was still not comfortable but made the choice to approach him. Huge step forward. She could not have made that choice in a crate not gotten rewarded for that choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hi, Donald. Maybe it's a regional thing, because barking dogs at cattledog trials are also considered rude, at least in this part of the country. The only time I hear dogs barking at cattle trials is sometimes when the owner/handler is competing with another of his/her dogs, and the ones tied out at the pickup hear the whistles...or maybe young pups who bark when someone walks past their pickup just because they haven't quite figured out the program yet, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Dear Doggers, It interests me as a dog trainer that those pet dogs under the handler's tent - sack dogs, rescue dogs, dogs of the heart - are every bit as mannerly as the sheepdogs and even the small terriers don't bark. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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