Need advice -Teaching contact zones in agility

[D'Elle]

Well, my agility trainer has me and Jes both a bit confused, and we could use some advice. I taught Jes "touch", so he will bonk his nose on things, and he knows that and will do it 90% of the time (sometimes I have to ask him twice, that's the other 10%). Then I transferred it to touching a target plate on the A-frame or teeter or dogwalk contact zone. I asked my teacher weeks ago if I should change the command to "bottom" or something so that there was a distinction between bonking my hand or a spot on the wall, and stopping in the contact zone. She said I didn't need to change the command. We practice at home on the steps to the house; he has to stop at the bottom of the steps, 2-on and 2-0ff. However, when the target plate was removed from the obstacles in class, Jes took that to mean there was no longer any need to "touch" or bonk anything with his nose. I say "touch" as he is coming over the obstacle, and he stops in the contact zone. He does this nicely, but last class the teacher asked me why he was not touching the bottom of the obstacle with his nose when I said "touch". I told her it was because, to Jes, there's nothing to touch since there's no target plate. I would have to point at a spot at the bottom of the obstacle and tell him "touch" right there, and of course then I would always have to be right next to the obstacle to do that, which isn't good. But he stops, which I thought is the main thing. She says now that I should change the command, and make it "bottom" or something to distinguish between touching my hand or the wall and stopping on the target zone. BUT she also says I need to get him to put his head down and touch the bottom of the obstacle. I am confused as to what to do, and so now I am confusing Jester as well, and until I get my own mind straightened out about what is best to do I don't want to work him on this at home. Someone with more experience, please offer advice on this.

[MrSnappy]

Here is a thread about teaching contacts from a little while ago.

 

RDM

[3crazybcs]

I know many people start out teaching touch as a nose touch too thier hands and then transferred it to a target but it has never made sense to me. I start out with my dogs touching my hand but I've got a target in my hand which I quickly move to the ground. I want my dogs to learn right from the start that touch means touch the target, not anything else. For your dog, touch means touch many different things so I would change my word from touch to another one (bottom, target, hit it, etc). It should be easy to retrain it. Others may disagree with me, but it seems to me that your criteria for touch means too many different things.

 

The reason your dog isn't stopping on the contacts when you take the target away is probably because you took it away too soon. Did you fade it (meaning take it away gradually) or just take it away all at once? If you took it away all at once, start using it again and take it away 1 out of 10 times, then 2 out of 10 times, etc.

 

When you say your instructor wants your dog's head to be down and for him to touch the bottom of the obstactle do you mean touch the target? If you are consistent about teaching him to touch his nose to the target he should come to the end of the obstacle with his head down even when the target is gone, maybe that's what she's getting at?

 

I hope this helps and also the prior thread on contacts too.

[Alaska]

I use "Look" as the cue to nose touch the plastic target. It's a very specific behavior Since we're almost always using it as a way to train the dog to lower their head, "look" means not only touch but use your nose to touch a specific thing (later, spot) on the ground in front of you.

 

"Touch" (for us) means touch my hand, wherever it is. I use hand touches as a way to get my dog's attention back on me, so the hand is constantly changing position to make it more engaging for the dog.

 

So yes, I think a different cue is a good idea.

[D'Elle]

Thanks!! Now, if I had been checking in to the Boards more regularly I would have read all that stuff back in January on contact zones. Silly me. But I am reading it now, and going to try the suggestions.

[D'Elle]

Well, oops. I actually did read that thread in January, as I found out once I went there and read it. But Jes and I are still confused, because the problem now is that "touch" means touch a target plate, and he has never heard of "bottom" before. Do I teach him that "bottom" (or whatever) also means touch a target plate.....but touch it at the bottom of an obstacle instead of elsewhere? I am sorry to be so dense, but I am not getting this.

[Rave]

I would teach a new command using a new/different target plate then fade it gradually. I teach it on stairs to get all the learning curve mistakes out of the way while you're away from the equipment. Once the dog is reliably driving down the stairs to the target plate, then start fading. I ask for multiple touches and the first time the plate will be there, then I slide it out with my foot, ask again, click before dog realizes hey there's no plate, slide it back, ask again. Once the dog "gets" the plate may not always be there, then you can start sending him down w/o it there, but again don't quit cold turkey, fade it gradually. I also use a clear target so it's easier to fade.

 

You don't do alot of work with just the target on the floor. I do brief work with this until the dog understands what the target plate IS, then I quickly move to the stairs, backchaining the behavior (i.e. starting with one stair).

 

-Laura

[Barb Scott]

A lot of the top agility people no longer do 2 on/ 2 off. Look up the CleanRun yahoo list for other methods of doing contacts.

barb s

[kelpiegirl]

Contact training methods should be fitted to each particular dog. The minute someone tells me this is how I MUST do it, I go the other way FAST. My first agility dog will always have problems because I never taught contacts. The second benefited from me messing up with the first, and now I have a girl who knows her contacts I do two on two off. I tried the target with the older girl, and well, it went over like a dead balloon. She really wasn't interested in targeting anything when she was running hell bent for leather through a course. When I taught her where I wanted her to stop (at bottom) she got it. My youngest is better and even if I keep running she will stop (that is how I trained/proofed it right from the start). Who knows if we will have issues of etching away at the truthfulness of getting those contacts, but for now, we are good- and that is the one thing we practice regularly!! Targeting can be great, but not everything works for every dog.

For weave poles I use weave-o-matics, and I hear those are out of favor too! Stick with what works, and if you aren't sure, see what you think you can teach best.

Julie