IGS in Border Collies

[gcv-border]

Since there will always be new inherited diseases identified/recognized our best course is to breed to keep the COI (for lack of a better descriptor) as low as possible. Unrecognized inherited diseases become recognized when the incidence rate of "carriers" rises to the point that the rate of "affected" pups is high enough for us to recognize the disease as inherited.

Agree with this.

 

Mum24dog - sorry to hear about Risk, but I am sure you will get the hang of injections.

[mum24dog]

I had planned to give him a rest from agility training but he has picked up so quickly I took him tonight and he was so up for it. Very hard to believe that he was at death's door only 12 days ago. He felt so much stronger to me which is understandable if his muscle tone has improved.

 

The hope is that it will become one of the routine things vets check for when ä dog exhibits some of the common symptoms as it should be relatively cheap to diagnose and even easier to treat.

[Sue R]

I am very grateful that you caught this before it was too late. I don't think it really was on the vets' radars a few years ago when we lost our Bute to it. His diagnosis came just a few days too late. He made it to three years of age before he succumbed.

 

I am happy for you both!

[Liz P]

Sorry to hear about your dog. Mine landed in the ICU several times with severe HGE that required IV fluids. Thankfully he never progressed to needing a blood transfusion. At that time, IGS had not been identified in the breed. The internal medicine specialist put my dog on chronic Tylan powder, which did not control his symptoms. Next we tried chronic metronidazole, which helped but did not prevent the HGE episodes. We also tried a hypoallergenic prescription hydrolyzed diet, no change. A prescription fish and potato food seemed to help a bit, but not enough. At 9 months old he had chronic low energy, was thin as a rail and just not right. We started the B12 injections at that point. Eventually we were able to get him off the prescription food and antibiotics. He went on to gain weight, develop good muscling and lead a very normal life.

 

Since my last response to this post, I have found about a half dozen close relatives with confirmed IGS. I am getting all my dogs DNA tested, even though they are not related to the affected dogs.

[mum24dog]

My dog hid it well. He'd always been very thin but he's reached the sort of height I would have expected from his breeding and was never really ill or off his food or noticeably lethargic until the recent episode. His head is very small though.

 

When I got him at 9.5 weeks I expected a few days of runny poos and he obliged but it persisted and became bloody. My vet hit it with ABs and anti parasitic and a lab test revealed some infestation even though I had wormed him as soon as I got him home. After that I attributed his sensitive digestive system to the residual effect of his early problems.

 

There's no way of knowing whether the two were connected or whether his early condition has clouded the issue.

 

He also gets runnier with stress, exercise and excitement but so does our 9 year old that has no GI issues at all. The older dog was extremely skinny until about 2 years so a skinny adolescent didn't in itself wave any red flags.

 

Seems like the wise protocol would be to assume IGS and administer B12 until proved otherwise but I can understand why vets at this present time may not do that if they have never knowingly seen a case. If the major hospital in the region has only seen 4-5 I think we can cut smaller general vets some slack. Hopefully things will change and I'm sure it will be fixed in my own vets' minds now.

[juliepoudrier]

It seems it's really on the radar now and a lot of folks are going ahead and testing for it. My Birdie's littermate had symptoms, including anorexia, suggestive of IGS, though none of us had heard of it before. We resorted to B injections for that youngster as something of a last-ditch effort to get her to eat, and the transformation was amazing. It was only after that that I read about IGS (either here or on Facebook, and made the connection to that pup's issues). I'm unlikely to breed my pup from that litter, but when I have some extra money, I will test either her or her mom just to see if it is being carried in that line.

 

J.

[mum24dog]

I was grateful to this board for making me aware of the condition before I got my pup, I think. It was something I considered, along with EPI, when my pup failed to pile on the pounds and had chronic diarrhoea but he didn't obviously seem to fit the picture for either.

 

The ISDS made CEA testing a prerequisite for registration with good results and I believe the ABCA is the same. Recommending testing is not enough, compulsion is needed if easily controlled diseases are to be kept in check. The same applies to Kennel Clubs.

 

It's important for there not to be a culture of blame for those who may have inadvertently contributed to the problem in the past. Cooperation is needed if such problems are to be tackled and making people feel that they have to hide it for fear of a backlash is counter productive.

 

With registered dogs secrecy and denial isn't going to work. There's so much information available that detective work will point the finger.

[Mark Billadeau]

I have a problem with compulsory testing for everything where there is a test. Running every available test on each pup prior to registration would be cost prohibitive for breeders; the Border Collie panel from Paw Prints (CEA, DM, IGS, MDR1, NCL, & TNS) runs $288/dog (compared to $500-$700 puppy price). Tracking clears through pedigrees can be problematic (doing so would also push breeders to only breed 100% clear on all tests shrinking the gene pool, increasing COI).

 

If you don't require running every test; what will be the threshold for requiring a test (above a certain incidence rate in the gene pool)? The data available in the literature does not distinguish subpopulations (show, working, pet, etc); the only way to know the incidence rate within a subpopulation is to test a random, well distributed sample of the subpopulation. If you only use the literature data the actual incidence rate you care about (within your subpopulation) can be very different (an example would be TNS).

 

Let's say we use the literature data; what threshold incidence rate should we set; IGS is <0.5% as is TNS, NCL, & MDR1.

 

I think a better approach is to provide information on possible diseases in our subpopulation (clinical tests and DNA tests) and educate breeders on testing for those where there is evidence of the lower incidence rate diseases in their lines.

[mum24dog]

If the ISDS thinks testing important enough strongly to recommend it then it should be prepared to go further. Clearly in the case of Beagles and BCs someone considered that the problem now labelled IGS was sufficiently severe as to warrant investigation.

 

I find the ad hoc clinic sample quoted above interesting. Not much use on its own though.

 

Likely incidence will only be indicated if sufficient breeders take note of the recommendation. How long can we wait?

 

I'm not in favour of knee jerk reactions either but sometimes arms need to be twisted.

 

Look at it from a proactive rather than a reactive stance. What better way of establishing a database covering a population than by compulsion? If the data obtained were then deemed not to justify such compulsion it could be lifted.

 

If my dog hadn't been insured or I couldn't afford the huge cost of hospitalisation and diagnosis, plus lifelong treatment there is every chance he would be dead. We now have the means to stop what happened to him.

[Mark Billadeau]

What criteria do you propose for identifying which DNA tests (those available now will become available in the future) should be required by breed organizations?

 

As a puppy buyer how much increase in prices are you willing to accept, since the costs for required tests will be passed on to buyers?

[juliepoudrier]

I don't think compulsion is the answer either. The market drives the testing and I am seeing more people test for things like IGS. In fact, because companies like PawPrint genetics offer packages, at least some people are testing for diseases not even considered a problem in the breed. These additional "package deal" tests will certainly provide more data on those extremely low incidence diseases, but I think the community has a pretty decent track record of following through on genetic issues as they arise, and as recommended by ABCA. And if puppy buyers ask about the various tests and choose only breeders who get them done, then more people will test. Communication will help, too, if people let breeders know when they encounter a problem in a puppy.

 

The flip side to that are people who already test for everything they can possibly test for, but many of those breeders aren't the sort that most working dog people would want to get pups from. Compelling people to test isn't going to guarantee a good working dog, nor even necessarily a healthy one.

 

Several of us here have noted that IGS, specifically, is something that is fairly new on people's radars, and yet vets are now considering it when dogs present certain symptoms. The dogs I mentioned in my post above are 2 years old. I heard about IGS when they were at least a year old (so a little over a year ago). We stumbled on treatment because they vet involved probably had no idea about IGS but we knew that B vitamins can increase appetite. I think any money spent on these "emerging" diseases would be better spent on EDUCATION. Certainly your own breeder was unaware, but now is aware.

 

Education of vets would make diagnosis quicker, which would cut down on the cost (such as you and others have incurred) of dogs crashing before they are diagnosed. And treatment is very inexpensive and can be done at home.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

At least some labs/researchers are trying to get the word out:

 

From

Gastrointestinal Laboratory
Dr. Jörg M. Steiner
Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences
Texas A&M University, 4474 TAMU

 

We currently recommend that all dogs and cats with chronic histories of gastrointestinal disease should have serum cobalamin concentrations measured. This is particularly important in any case with sub-optimal response to previously instituted therapy. [emphasis added] As cobalamin is inexpensive, water soluble and any excess is readily disposed, cobalamin supplementation should certainly be considered for any animal with a serum cobalamin concentration lower than the laboratory reference range.

 

J.

[GentleLake]

At least some labs/researchers are trying to get the word out:

 

From

Gastrointestinal Laboratory

Dr. Jörg M. Steiner

Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences

Texas A&M University, 4474 TAMU

 

 

This is great! Do you know the date of this?

 

It would have saved me a boatload of money and angst if the three vets who treated Tilly one day would have known this. Thankfully the fourth (unafilliated) did and was able to Dx her.

[mum24dog]

Well I hope your optimism about the take up of the test by breeders is justified.

 

Diagnosis of B12 deficiency by vets is only the first step and could be unrelated to IGS. Only a DNA test will confirm and inform breeding choices.

 

Maybe market forces will prevail in the working world. Selling for work and sport is not uncommon here and enables breeders to increase their asking prices. However, once those prices start getting within sight of the price of a health tested, sport bred dog they are going to lose business if they don't test themselves.

 

Mark - If a test is recommended by the registering organisation then it should be done. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. As for cost, currently recommended DNA tests are very modestly priced, especially if offered as a package. Spread over a litter the likely price increase per pup is not going to be great unless the litter is unusually small and that's just for a one off mating. Breeding should be done responsibly, not as a game of Russian roulette with the lives of the dogs and the bank balance of the buyers at stake,

 

Reputation is everything and is worth preserving for a small financial outlay. I'm sure you all know breeders that knowledgeable buyers won't touch because they produce dogs with X Y or Z.

 

I'm not bitter and I'm not angry. S**t happens and we have to get over it. The first step to creating my pup was taken around 17 months ago when people weren't generally aware and I'm not even sure if there was any DNA test on the market. If someone as informed as Julie didn't know about IGS at that time then I think breeders can be forgiven for the same. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't act on the information that is now available.

[Liz P]

A combined test for dogs and cats with chronic GI signs, with B12 levels being just one of the values checked, was released by Antech at least 4 years ago. Cost can be a problem for some clients though.

 

Still, you would need a DNA test to confirm IGS as other conditions can lead to low B12 levels in the blood.

 

I like to know the carrier rate of a disease in a population before recommending that everyone test for it. I still don't think MDR1 is one that we need to do. TNS I am on the fence about, but since it is so serious and some carriers in the working population have been found, I decided to go ahead and test. From what I have seen, IGS is one that we should probably all be testing for, but it would be nice to know the breed carrier rate. When the EOD test comes out, I think all dogs should be screened. If there were genetic tests for epilepsy and hip dysplasia, I think those should be done on all breeding dogs.

 

We will indeed reach a point that the cost of testing for everything could be more than the market will handle. Right now, for those of us who only breed for our own needs, it can be harder. Breed a bitch once or twice and in the end, you may have lost money (raise, train, trial, feed, keep healthy, test, etc cost money).

[juliepoudrier]

I just want to clarify that I'm not against testing. I am simply against someone dictating a bunch of mandatory tests. Thoughtful breeders will test for those issues of which they are aware and which they believe to be a problem (emerging or longstanding) in the breed. I think the good breeders *will* act on such information without having to be compelled to do so.

 

Like Liz, I can remember TNS being mentioned a lot in Australian show lines and not so much in working lines. So until recently I would have said that testing for it is a poor use of one's money. If the incidence is increasing in the working population, then breeders probably should be testing, but as Liz notes, without reliable incidence rates, sometimes it's just speculation. The most vocal folks are the ones who have dogs with problems (not saying this is a bad thing, but if you are one who has a dog affected by a genetic problem then certainly it's a huge issue from an individual standpoint, but may not be one from a population standpoint), but at least from my POV, the few shouldn't drive the many (that is, incidence rates should be the driving force). And that could be a chicken-egg thing for minor diseases, but I think for serious diseases or those that manifest in obvious ways, it will become clear if the incident rate is on the rise.

 

As I stated earlier, the package deal tests will get some data out there, whether it is being specifically sought or not. But there are still some genetic issues (like mdr1) that I don't think are worth testing for, unless a person just wants peace of mind.

 

Anyway, I really do think the market will drive more breeders to testing for more things. The question of where to draw the line on what to test for should generally, IMO, lie with the breeder. After all, a potential buyer doesn't have to buy a particular breeder's pups. And I expect that breeders who are asking the same price as those being asked for health tested sport bred pups will have done the testing as well. Market forces. But there's certainly also still a market for the pup that costs less than what the health tested out the wazoo sport bred dog is being sold for, and I don't think all breeders should be forced to test for all things and then sell at a price that reflects that. For one thing, I can see some people being priced out of the market, and for another, I can see the number of BYBs increasing as some people are priced out of the market. Just my own opinion of course, but then I generally don't pay an arm and a leg for a pup that's not guaranteed to be the worker I want and need.

 

And, yeah, I do try to keep up on the latest research in the scientific areas that interest me, but no one can keep up with everything, so it is good for people to discuss problems they see or hear about so we do get them on people's radars, just in case it is something that is on the rise.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Roxanne,

That wasn't a published paper; it's from that lab's web page, which is here:

http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information

 

They do, however, provide a list of references at the end of the page (none of which, interestingly, are all that recent). I actually came across the page while looking for treatment protocols for IGS and whether one could use fortified B complex in place of B12 (I didn't find that answer there).

 

J.

[GentleLake]

^^Thanks, Julie.

 

I hope the information is getting to general practice vets, as my (admittedly quite limited) experience is that many of them just aren't aware to look for it. I hope this is beginning to change.

 

Interesting to note that they suggest looking for cobalamin deficiency in EPI dogs as well

[mum24dog]

And I would just like to clarify that I am not advocating testing because my dog is affected, more out of concern for the breed.

 

I'm not overly concerned about MDR1. I am not bothered whether or not a test for HD is developed since it is not purely genetic. Epilepsy would be of some use but no guarantee. TNS more of a worry to a breeder I would have thought. CEA is a given if buying a registered pup.

 

IGS has just made me think more clearly about the issue. I never had to before because I had never bought a pup before this one and probably won't again, but not because of this issue, just because I prefer rescues where at least I know I am getting a genetic unknown.

 

What concerns me in particular is the popular sire effect.

[Chan]

A combined test for dogs and cats with chronic GI signs, with B12 levels being just one of the values checked, was released by Antech at least 4 years ago.

 

Liz,

 

Do you happen to know the name of that test?

 

I find all this very interesting. Rook has had GI issues since he came. Terrible diarrhea a few days after arrival, slow to respond to typical drugs, finally did identify some coccidia. Then he had loose stools/diarrhea periodically especially when stressed (good or bad). I tried probiotics, etc. That has mostly resolved although stools are a bit loose at times but around 7 months of age he became a very poor eater. He also vomits - sometimes his entire meal - even 12 hours later. He will sniff kibble soaked in steak juice and walk off. He does seem to eat novel items well for a short period. I started cooking meals for him and he ate every meal for two weeks and put on almost a pound, then went back to his usual sporadic eating. I keep my dogs lean since we do agility but he is very lean - I think his ribs are too prominent. He does have good muscle but is probably 20.5 - 21" tall and just at 35lbs, very long. He has had two works ups with x-rays and blood work, one when the decreased appetite started and one a month or so ago after really being off his food and then vomitting twice. We haven't ever discussed B12 so I'm sure he hasn't been tested for serum Cobalamin.

 

I briefly mentioned it to the vet (not my regular) while there today because of a cut pad. He said they typically test for folate and B12 along with serum Cobalamin and it was $250. I declined since I know I can get a DNA test for IGS from UC Davis for $50.

 

I wonder though, it it possibly/typical to have another cause of low Cobalamin and would it be better to test for that specifically? I have a regularly schedule annual exam in a few weeks and I'll discuss all this with my regular vet at that time. Just curious about others' thoughts and experiences.

 

 

Mum24dog,

 

I'm so glad they were able to quickly identify your pup's problem and treat him. Hearing your experience with Risk makes it seem a little more feasible for Rook, despite the fact that his history doesn't sound like the text book case. Thank you for sharing your experience with us!

 

Chandra

[Mark Billadeau]

But you still haven't answered the question about what criteria should be used to determine which tests a registering body should require. At what incidence rate should testing be required?

 

We can't simply say, this disease seems to be a problem for the breed because I know a few dogs on the east coast which have it and that disease isn't a problem because I don't know of any in my region that are affected.

[GentleLake]

I wonder though, it it possibly/typical to have another cause of low Cobalamin and would it be better to test for that specifically?

 

First, cobalamin = Vit. B 12. Different names for the same thing.

 

Not Liz and not even a vet, but I can answer the first part of the question.

 

Yes, there can be other causes. This is mentioned in the link Julie provided.

 

Just looked up Tilly's records. She was tested 12/05. Blood sent to Texas A & M. The charge was $125 for cobalamin, folate, pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity and TLI. (Not sure what the last one is. All fasting, BTW. Only cobalamin and folate were low, the other 2 normal.)

 

Could there really have been 100% inflation in 5 years? This was only the cost for the lab -- there was an OV, some other tests, fecal flotation to see if it might have been parasites, meds for acute symptoms -- but the whole bill was a little less than $250 at the time.

 

Here's my thinking on the second part of the question. If you only test for IGS and it comes back negative, then you still don't know if he's not absorbing B 12 and/or folate for other reasons and might still want to test for that. IGS is more likely to be the culprit in a dog Rook's age than Tilly's. She was about 13 when she was finally diagnosed, though had been having problems for a couple years before that.

 

I also don't know if the lipase immunoreactivity and TLI would be necessary in Rook's case. That would be something to discuss with the vet, but if not, it might not cost as much to test for just B 12 and folate.

 

Maybe Antech's test will be more cost effective. Or maybe you could call some other vets to see what they'd charge for the test. Wouldn't necessarily mean you have to switch vets; it would just be a visit for a blood draw and sending the sample in.

 

Best wishes figuring this out. It's just awful seeing our dogs sick or just not thriving.

[mum24dog]

Mark - It is not for me as a lay person to make such a determination. I reiterate, if the registry, which is presumably more fully in the picture than I am, deems it necessary to recommend testing breeding stock then I assume they have reason for it.

 

I can see why they would be reluctant to impose compulsion though as that could result in a hit on their bank balance through fewer registrations.

[mum24dog]

Chan - Rook's symptoms reflect Risk's in a number of respects, even down to initial coccidia. If I were you I would want to try him on B12 injections now. You don't want to risk him crashing if it is something as simply treated as IGS.

[Chan]

 

Chan - Rook's symptoms reflect Risk's in a number of respects, even down to initial coccidia. If I were you I would want to try him on B12 injections now. You don't want to risk him crashing if it is something as simply treated as IGS.