Ways to teach contacts for the teeter and dog walk?

[Cumulus Cloud]

I have a young border collie in training and we are at the point where it is time to teach her the contacts. FUN STUFF.

 

Any special ways you guys teach your dogs this that worked?

Since there is many different ways to teach the weaves (I used the 2x2 method) I'm hoping there are some for teaching contacts as well.

 

Thanks!

 

- Jenna L

[Rave]

Do you want running, stopped or a combination of both? The easiest to teach is stopped, usually a 2on/2off. I suggest that since I'm assuming by your question in general that you are new to the sport and need something easy to teach and maintain while you learn as well. Most people use target training to teach this. I'm sure there are plenty of articles and videos online that explain and show how to teach this. Just do a search for 2 on 2 off contacts.

[Cumulus Cloud]

I am going to train stopped but plan to get running as the end result later on.

 

My agility instructor actually recommended the target technique and it seemed simple enough, but before I start on that I wanted to look around if there are other ways to teach it too. Like the weaves, my class had the channel weaves set up but I taught the 2 x 2 method to my dog at home and aced it in a week.

 

Thanks

 

- Jenna L

[Rave]

Other methods to teach the stop are 4 On the Floor and 1 Rear Toe. Most people have difficulty teaching and maintaining two separate criteria for the same obstacle, so you might want to just pick one method for each obstacle and stick with it.

 

It's common to teach a stopped dogwalk, running aframe and a "4-on" the teeter (dog runs to end and rides it down, whether they stop or not is up to you). But again, do what works for you and your dog.

 

Many instructors now offer online classes so you can learn from the best no matter where you live. For running contacts, Daisy Peel and Sylvia Trkman are the most popular online classes and they're fairly reasonably priced. The Rachel Sanders box method for the aframe is pretty popular and easy to train; she has a DVD out, or you can do what I did and just find blog articles and youtube videos to figure out how to teach it. Actually for all of these methods, there is tons of info out there if you're good with Google! I know Clean Run has run articles on most of the stopped methods as well.

 

Here's a good link for running contact resources:

http://www.running-contacts.com/rcblog/

[arf2184]

Meg is my first dog and I'm still a newbie but here's what we did:

 

I taught Meg using a target to stop on the dog walk with 2 on 2 off, beginning with just a short board at home, first clicking the correct position, then once she understood that part, asking for a stay while I moved away. Somewhere along the way though we lost the '2 off' and she started stopping too high on the dog walk so we're in the process of reworking that and she's doing well.

 

In class, we taught a running A-frame using a hoop at the bottom to keep the dogs from taking off early (the dog has to go all the way to the bottom and through the hoop). Gradually move the hoop farther from the base of the A-frame to phase it out. Once the hoop was gone for a while though, some dogs in class got a bit lax and started leaping off too soon and had to review with the hoop again. Not Meg though.

 

Our teeter...well, I'm just thrilled that Meg will even get on it after the problems we had in the beginning. She has finally stopped hesitating when she sees the teeter and will get on it no problem, but tends to stop a bit too close to the middle, crouches down and stretches out and rides it down v-e-r-y--s-l-o-w-l-y...lol. Then sometimes she jumps off from there rather than walking to the end. I'm not going to nit pick how she rides it down since that alone was a huge step for her, but now we're working on 2 on-2 off with the teeter...its slow going though because the teeter is not always set up where we train and we don't have a full size one at home so we can't practice on it much.

 

The biggest mistakes I've seen in our class is lack of consistency. Set the criteria you want and stick with it.

[mum24dog]

The first thing to work out is what is likely to suit your own dog best (and you as handler). You need to take into account conformation and drive and whether you are fast enough to get into position if the course demands it. Only you and your instructor will have an idea of that.

 

The ideal would probably be for totally independent running contacts with split second directional commands off them but realistcally few of us or our dogs are suited to achieve that.

 

As a compromise, most dogs and handlers will understand and be able to achieve 2o2o contacts if there is consistency in training.

[ChantalB]

Realistically I would not train a stopped and then plan to train/turn it into a running,. I would recommend to pick one and keep it from te start.

[Cumulus Cloud]

Realistically I would not train a stopped and then plan to train/turn it into a running,. I would recommend to pick one and keep it from te start.

 

I'd agree for now since both Cloud and I are amateurs at this but when we are competing it would cost seconds and one of my agility idol , Susan Garrett, trains both on her dogs and uses them accordingly. For example, when the dog is ahead of her (since they are much faster runners) and she needs time to catch up, she would use a stopped but most of the times, she would go straight with the running.

[Rave]

In theory that might be a good idea, but in reality not so much. Since you are new, teach a much simpler behavior (stopped) and go from there. When you get more comfortable and experienced in the sport, then maybe you can entertain other more complex options, like running contacts.

 

A good stopped contact doesn't take seconds longer than a running one, in fact some of the good ones are on par or perhaps even faster than some of the running. Gabrielle Blackburn comes to mind as someone who teaches very fast stopped contacts. Here's video of her winning AKC Nationals this year with Zing, who stops on this contacts (even in the victory lap!):

[ChantalB]

Haha but thats SG, lol! And up until a year ago (or less) she was against running DW.

 

You could do it but I wouldn't mess around with a dog like that. It's unfair. I'd only do it for health reason personally, like the aframe and shoulders. And a dog with a great stopped, well takes a Long time to retrain. (personal experience). Strive to teach an amazing stopped, I think they look great, keep black and white criteria from the get go, and drive, and theres no reason why you won't be winning. The gAme is won and lost between obtacles, thight turns, quick responses.

 

And you have a much easier time with traps they put in for running DWers.

[mum24dog]

A good stopped contact doesn't take seconds longer than a running one, in fact some of the good ones are on par or perhaps even faster than some of the running.

 

Totally agree.

 

A year or 2 ago I checked the individual Large results of the FCI World Champs and the first 3 placed dogs had stopped contacts, the 4th running.

 

And our own Natasha Wise won consecutive Medium World Champs with stopped contacts. I've watched that dog since it started and doubt very much whether she would have got the control needed to do as well as she has if she'd tried running contacts. Some dogs are crazy and sometimes need to be brought back to earth at points in the course, especially when new to the sport.

[Rave]

And a dog with a great stopped, well takes a Long time to retrain. (personal experience).

 

Exactly! I once tried getting Wick to run over an aframe w/o stopping and could not get her to not stop. She was convinced I was proofing and refused to be "caught" lol. Such a smart girly.

[alligande]

I have mentioned this before but Sylvia Trkman credits her tight turns rather than running contacts for her success. As a beginner handler stopped contacts are easier to train and can give you a moment to get your bearings. As an example I know I can always front cross at a contact and get caught up. I could not handle my dog with running contacts without putting a lot more distance training in.

I train with a handler who has been on the podium often at both AKC and USDAA nationals with a stoped contact, just remember the stop does not have to be very long.

[PSmitty]

A good stopped contact doesn't take seconds longer than a running one, in fact some of the good ones are on par or perhaps even faster than some of the running. Gabrielle Blackburn comes to mind as someone who teaches very fast stopped contacts. Here's video of her winning AKC Nationals this year with Zing, who stops on this contacts (even in the victory lap!):

 

Yep, and Tori Self and Rev have stopped contacts, too. Someone try to tell me these two teams are losing time with those contacts! True, they're quick release, but they're not running.

 

As someone who tried to morph 2o2o into running contacts, I wouldn't recommend it. I'd teach one or the other from the beginning.

[MrSnappy]

I've got 2o2o on all my dogs except my "Whipjack" and she has running contacts, but only by virtue of the fact that she has a natural RC ... her natural stride takes her right through the yellow. It's more difficult to achieve with a dog who doesn't have that advantage.

 

The other difficulty with an RC is that you're only going to be able to train a reliable and consistant running with constant access to the equipment. You can teach a 2o2o anywhere, on anything, because it's an independant behaviour from the obstacle itself, until you merge the two behaviours. The running will be successful only if you drill it on the contact equipment. My dog who had the nicest 2o2o contacts was backchained onto obstacles, but she learned the actual behaviour on the stairs in my apartment building.

 

Since I don't have a dogwalk at home, my RCs with Spring will probably be iffy for a while, especially if there's a turn off the obstacle. I also can keep up with her for the most part (for now anyway) so it's not so much an issue for me. But I wouldn't want to try and put a RC on, say, Dexter (my pony-slash-border-collie) because with class/practice available to me only once a week, I wouldn't want to half-assedly train it. And with the amount of work I put into getting his nice and reliable quick releases, I wouldn't want to mess him up by asking for some different, and totally contradictory, behaviour now.

 

RDM

[Rave]

Gah! Can't believe I forgot Tori and Rev! Another great example!

 

In this sport, like so many, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk. And in this sport, unlike so many, you and your dog are both learning at the same time. Since so many agility people came from the horse world, I'll use a horse analogy... Agility is like putting a novice rider on a green horse. Start with the Walk-Trot class first and gradually you will work your way up to the Grand Prix. While whoever you may idolize may be that Grand Prix rider, you're not going to get there immediately. Put in your time though with yourself and with your dog, and for sure you'll make it up there one day!

[mum24dog]

Gah! Can't believe I forgot Tori and Rev! Another great example!

 

Here at 28.30 (if it's the same dog)

 

 

Very, very difficult to get such tight turns off the A frame and DW with an RC, even for an experienced handler.

 

And plenty of Ketschkers in that competition. Look for the guy with the green jumper to see how it can all go belly up if you try to be too clever.

[PSmitty]

Yes, Tori and Rev were selected to compete at Crufts. She also just won a spot on the World Team for the second year in a row. (can you tell who my "agility hero" is?)

 

[Cumulus Cloud]

Thank you so much for all your inputs, greatly appreciated!!

 

Both Cloud and I learned so much from each other and I continue to soak up any valuable information from any experienced people out there. I can see some really great points here... stopped it is then! I've all ready started with back end target awareness. It's going to be hard for Cloud to stop at those contacts since she is a real jumper! Another thing is that she is so fast and she's always so tempted to fly off when she nears the contacts tsktsk. But that was before, now we're working step by step toward our goal. Since almost all the obstacles in agility needs a right starting to get some desirable results, I wanted to make sure I was getting the right start so I don't waste any efforts.

 

Still in my young collage years and while my friends are partying or hanging out on the weekends, I am out training my dog on herding and agility in hopes to become a prodigy someday (haha). I was always the strange dog person ever since I was 12 and haven't changed since!

[ChantalB]

Still in my young collage years and while my friends are partying or hanging out on the weekends, I am out training my dog on herding and agility in hopes to become a prodigy someday (haha). I was always the strange dog person ever since I was 12 and haven't changed since!

 

I know the feeling I was always "horsegirl" or "doggirl". While everyone was shopping, going out to supper I horded money aside to buy a border collie. Waiting for the day I could have my own plAce And my own dog (my housemy rules sorta deal). It went from "can't go out horse show" in highschool, to can't go out "dog show" now in College. I had a friends mom once ask me how incould afford to take all my lessons and stuff, told her I frankly can't remember the last time I had a new pair of jeans

 

You remind me of myself, wanting to conquer the sport (haha I'm still just into my second year of dog sport/agility training) of agility, researching everything and staying ahead of the game. I'll give you a piece of advice as a fellow newbie/youngster in this world.. Don't be afraid to say no and take a different direction with your training. Yes you should should get all the advice you can, and really take to heart what experience people will tell you, but in the end follow your heart.

 

I went a different way than my first club on my dogs teeter (fly to the end ride the tip in a crouch vs their ride the tip at the centre) and contacts (I didn't use a target). I insisted on using 2x2 even though they didn't teach that to newbs (and I understand why). My dog has never sat on the table, as it was a down right away because I knew I needed firm criteria right away because of his crouching. I only wish I went with the running aframe from the beginning, sigh. It took no time for them at all to see I was more dedicated to the sport than the typical newb, and then that got fun!! Maybe it's because my dog knew all the pre agility/beginner skills before we got there Haha I was the first timer who did a lot of homework first and my first agility class was a Susan salo based jumping one. I think I perplexed people cause they had no idea who I was, but I insisted on taking it because I knew the value in proper jumping.

 

Best of luck on your journey! Perhaps we shall Cross paths one day!